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NEMESIS: SUB-TERRA [Alton 2012]

Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Joey said:
An audience will be aware of anything you make them aware of. You can't pay no efforts into immersing them and then wonder why they aren't immersed. It's funny, because for years Tussauds were talking to the skeptical British audience in the right language (Oblivion and Air are the best examples of such) and then it's like everyone forgot how to do it again until Saw, before forgetting how to do it with Thirteen again.
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Hmmm, I could not agree more. I used to go on about it when I was at MT. Trying to explain how important it is on the subconscious and conscious levels to have immersion and so on isn't always easy. Very few in the marketing team every seemed to really 'get' it. I think the problem there was always because I was known as being a theme park enthusiast and therefore they had this notion that my ideals and the things I noticed, like and disliked are far removed from that of Regular Joe. I still argue that they are not. Ok, because I am big fan of things means I talk about them this is true but just because a once-a-year theme park goer doesn't talk about these things doesn't mean they haven't noticed them. One thing I noticed about Marketing though... they did seem to have very little in the way of knowledge of the buisness operations and day to day running. They would ocme up with some real daft schemes to get people in or whatever and it would have a massive impact on how we could operate on the 'front lines' and they just didn't care. Anyways, I digress...

I am just pleased to hear that things appear to be going in the right direction. Fingers crossed it isn't just a kiddies dark ride dressed up to be something far bigger ay :p
Yes yes, this is highly unlikely I know.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

I disagree Mark - I hope it IS a kiddies ride dressed up...

What tower rides do most people bang on about? Jumping Bean at Paultons? I think so. Those short, kiddie towers are superb fun and are filled with willy lift.

Take away the height, and the ride has to concentrate on something else, in this case, the drop feeling. With a decent "show" around the ride, something like Jumping Bean could be a great mix of "fun" ride feeling with an indoor dark ride element. I've not done an Extremis, but most people who do say that they're superb. So why not want a great kiddie filler ride that gets a big thumbs up from a lot of enthusiasts?

Though that does involve fingers crossed for a proper "thrill-seeker" ride for next year.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Because they built one of those in 2010, just with a coaster leading up to it.

Advertising a drop in a dark...? I'm pretty sure that's been done at the Towers...
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Well, it's what they're doing... No point in assuming it'll be as complete dross as 13, but that they may get it right second time around ;)
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Can someone point out where the drop tower rumours have come from, anyway? As some people are talking about it as if they're confirmed, and some as if it's still a rumour.

Personally, I think it would be the stupidest move AT have made in a long time to add short fall drop towers for a few reasons:
1. The max fall height is going to be 9-10m when you fit in all the mechanisms etc, which although similar to Extremis, is still only really frog hopper height. OK, these rides give you a slight lift, but only for a brief period and it's so short there's barely time to thrill... Besides, the rerideablility of this sort of attraction is pretty low- once people have ridden it once (I assume that you'll enter at ground level and 'surprise' drop to -6m) then the surprise is gone and people won't really be interested in riding again versus many other park attractions..
2. Look at the last few years of investment
2010: Reasonably heavily themed two storey drop tower, enclosed, designed mainly to shock and give a bit of lift over a short drop with a family coaster attached to either side of it
2011: Nothing
2012: Reasonably heavily themed three storey drop tower, enclosed, designed mainly to shock and give a bit of lift over a short drop

Feeling a bit of deja vu... personally, I'd rather Q for the attraction that has a bit of coaster either end than pretty much exactly the same thing in FV...

People will, perhaps, argue that it'll be fantastically themed etc etc inside- however (despite myself appreciating Merlin efforts over the past few years) it generally comes across that people are never on the whole happy with a Merlin 'heavily-themed' attraction, so I'm slightly confused as to why everyone's suddenly really excited about this, when, in reality the quality will be at best on par with other Merlin additions, eg Saw etc.

Personally, I'm hoping for something just slightly more unusual for the towers- perhaps some form of round flat ride that's enclosed, or as I stated elsewhere, several Robocoaster arms- which could be done awesomely...
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

^That post was going so well until you suggested that get RoboArms...
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Ben said:
Because they built one of those in 2010, just with a coaster leading up to it.

Advertising a drop in a dark...? I'm pretty sure that's been done at the Towers...
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But that isn't necessarily what's happening here, like I said before.

coasterdude_1 said:
Can someone point out where the drop tower rumours have come from, anyway? As some people are talking about it as if they're confirmed, and some as if it's still a rumour.

Personally, I think it would be the stupidest move AT have made in a long time to add short fall drop towers for a few reasons:
1. The max fall height is going to be 9-10m when you fit in all the mechanisms etc, which although similar to Extremis, is still only really frog hopper height. OK, these rides give you a slight lift, but only for a brief period and it's so short there's barely time to thrill... Besides, the rerideablility of this sort of attraction is pretty low- once people have ridden it once (I assume that you'll enter at ground level and 'surprise' drop to -6m) then the surprise is gone and people won't really be interested in riding again versus many other park attractions..
2. Look at the last few years of investment
2010: Reasonably heavily themed two storey drop tower, enclosed, designed mainly to shock and give a bit of lift over a short drop with a family coaster attached to either side of it
2011: Nothing
2012: Reasonably heavily themed three storey drop tower, enclosed, designed mainly to shock and give a bit of lift over a short drop

Feeling a bit of deja vu... personally, I'd rather Q for the attraction that has a bit of coaster either end than pretty much exactly the same thing in FV...

People will, perhaps, argue that it'll be fantastically themed etc etc inside- however (despite myself appreciating Merlin efforts over the past few years) it generally comes across that people are never on the whole happy with a Merlin 'heavily-themed' attraction, so I'm slightly confused as to why everyone's suddenly really excited about this, when, in reality the quality will be at best on par with other Merlin additions, eg Saw etc.

Personally, I'm hoping for something just slightly more unusual for the towers- perhaps some form of round flat ride that's enclosed, or as I stated elsewhere, several Robocoaster arms- which could be done awesomely...
Click to expand...
The rumours are all via Towers Times, where several people who independently seem absolutely certain of whats happening next year and happy to tell everyone online.

As for the rest of what you say, like I keep saying, I feel like whatever the ride mechanism is... it's irrelevant to this attraction. And I can't explain that any better without giving examples of other attractions which would essentially explain what this is. And I'm not willing to do that.

You're right about the whole Merlin heavily themed attraction logic. I totally agree. And it is a concern, but I think this may cleverly avoid those problems. If you think about Alton's greatest achievements, they are not necessarily heavily themed in physical stuff, but their concept.

No one really seems excited about this from where I'm standing? Everyone is going "meh" and I'm trying to convince you all otherwise. :p

As for your closing statement "I'm hoping for something just slightly more unusual for the towers" - well personally, like I keep saying, I think you'll get your wish. Though perhaps not in the way you were expecting.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Actually, totally scratch my closing statement.

I want something that's tried and tested. Something that's been proven elsewhere. Something that's being raved about at another park. Then I want AT to do their best at theming it, and to put it somewhere in the park.

Every time AT puts in an unusual/new concept, it's always disappointing due to the fact that they've put so much effort in the designing and hyping of said unusual concept.

eg. Thirteen- for the budget, they could have afforded a far superior large family coaster that lasted more that 30 seconds
Charlie Elevator- It's just like standing in a flat next to a motorway for two minutes
Air- Great ride, however, one has to think of the possibilities if substantially less time and money had been spent on the new concept
There's a few examples, but looking at other parks, unusual rides often disappoint...

Personally, some of the rides that I rate most highly are pretty standard, not unusual and usually but well-implemented: for example, Ripsaw and Spinball (ok, not the best placement..)

And this is why I worry...
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Is it perhaps going to be more like Hex, with a fair chunk of theming and story before getting to the drops? So the drop won't be the whole experience - it'll be an alien attack or something.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Robbie said:
Is it perhaps going to be more like Hex, with a fair chunk of theming and story before getting to the drops? So the drop won't be the whole experience
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Nail on head methinks...

I'm with Joey here, it's weird how everyone seems to be rather disappointed with this (so far) on a fair few forums... Personally I'm excited because it's unknown what's going to happen inside, and I'm a glutton for punishment and disappointment perhaps...

Overall really, by the sounds of things, Towers ARE going down the Hex route of an experience rather than just a ride, which if done well should work, and if Joey's excited about how it looks, then I am too...

Besides, this could be a very useful addition if other rumours happen...
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

People were shouting for a new flat/dark ride, Alton plane for one and loads of people slag it off before they even know what what it is lol.

I am not really fussed if honest, the last 3 things Alton have installed have been a mass let down. I did not expect anything from the chocolate factory and enjoyed the room part.

So for this I am expecting nothing so I will probably enjoy it.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

coasterdude_1 said:
Actually, totally scratch my closing statement.

I want something that's tried and tested. Something that's been proven elsewhere. Something that's being raved about at another park. Then I want AT to do their best at theming it, and to put it somewhere in the park.

Every time AT puts in an unusual/new concept, it's always disappointing due to the fact that they've put so much effort in the designing and hyping of said unusual concept.

eg. Thirteen- for the budget, they could have afforded a far superior large family coaster that lasted more that 30 seconds
Charlie Elevator- It's just like standing in a flat next to a motorway for two minutes
Air- Great ride, however, one has to think of the possibilities if substantially less time and money had been spent on the new concept
There's a few examples, but looking at other parks, unusual rides often disappoint...

Personally, some of the rides that I rate most highly are pretty standard, not unusual and usually but well-implemented: for example, Ripsaw and Spinball (ok, not the best placement..)

And this is why I worry...
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying completely, but disagree that Alton would be better off going the tried and tested route.

I've not ridden Charlie, I refuse to, so I shan't comment there... But with Thirteen and Air, what MAKES the ride is the concept. Without it, it has no legs.

Tried and tested is boring and to make something like that stand out you have to make it really, really good. That's a lot of waste in terms of effort and cost to produce what is inevitably going to be a crap version of something better elsewhere. What makes Alton so special is how they have to turn to avante-garde ridiculousness and concept driven experience based rides because they do not have the space or height and lack the willingness to fund or... tbh, time and effort, required to do something like that when there is no evidence that it would produce something any better for their pocket. Disney isn't so successful because of it's over the top theming, it's successful because of brand association. People too readily forget that. I'd love to see a ridiculously highly themed quality ride, personally. But I highly doubt it would draw in any more (if even as many) guests, be as easy to market and as cheap to produce, especially today.

Alton do what they do because it is honestly the better alternative. And why people can't see that just by looking at Thorpe is beyond me. Thorpe lacks the building restriction woes at Alton opening up a world of possibility, so what do they get? Crap versions of amazing stuff.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Did the plans for Thirteen show that there would be a pit (for the mechanism) below the building walls?
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

^That post was going so well until you suggested that get RoboArms...
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Even if it's a full blown ride like Potter?

PS, if we're talking dark rides, Alton needs to bite the bullet and put in an Indy/Spiderman/DarkKastle type ride system...Would be perfect for the park.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Gazza said:
^That post was going so well until you suggested that get RoboArms...
Click to expand...
Even if it's a full blown ride like Potter?

PS, if we're talking dark rides, Alton needs to bite the bullet and put in an Indy/Spiderman/DarkKastle type ride system...Would be perfect for the park.
Click to expand...

Never gonna happen... Unfortunately... Cost of building, maintenance and many other things would make the park's too scared of bothering with it...
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Nemesis Inferno said:
Gazza said:
^That post was going so well until you suggested that get RoboArms...
Click to expand...
Even if it's a full blown ride like Potter?

PS, if we're talking dark rides, Alton needs to bite the bullet and put in an Indy/Spiderman/DarkKastle type ride system...Would be perfect for the park.
Click to expand...

Never gonna happen... Unfortunately... Cost of building, maintenance and many other things would make the park's too scared of bothering with it...
Click to expand...

Indeed. I think Joey mentioned the costs of the individual ride cars on those types of ride. Specifically Spiderman. 2 of those cars alone would match the cost of a full scale B&M project...
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

^ Apparently they aren't quite as much as I thought and Darkastle cost a heck of a lot less (diff company), but it's still not the sort of thing they'd go for. In fact, I can't see many of those ever popping up around the world.

As for roboarms... Yeah, I don't think so. They looked into it before with dark forest though, which suggests the idea appealed. It makes me wonder if they'd actually look into something LIKE Harry Potter, only with completely different hardware. Because, I would have thought, it's the concept they are intrigued by... In the same way that the concept of say, Expedition Everest, is comparable to Thirteen. Completely different hardware, used for the same kind of concept.
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

Don't Universal own the rights for the RoboArm things for like 5 years or something?

I'm glad noone knows what it is. Makes it more exciting. For once we may have a ride where we wont find out what it is until Alton announce it or start advertising it. :)
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

^^Why don't you just come out and say it?

"Completely different hardware, so they can create an inferior product on the cheap."
 
Re: New Indoor Ride for Alton in 2012

gavin said:
^^Why don't you just come out and say it?

"Completely different hardware, so they can create an inferior product on the cheap."
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That IS what I said. Except for the inferior bit... :p Cheaper doesn't mean it won't be as good. In fact, being frugal usually produces better quality because it means being clever. The only exceptions are the really ridiculously huge companies who have ludicrous amounts of money to throw at details that don't add much on their own but amount to ...wow.

Your weird though Gavin, and think everything sucks. You think Wild Asia is ****, even by UK standards. But you never did give an example of better? :lol:
 
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