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Holiday World | Thunderbird | Launched B&M Wing Coaster

Re: Bye-Bye Giraffica aka Pilgrims Plunge

Intricks said:
-If we use the given statistic of their annual gate price (which is what, 36 now?) and multiply that by their annual visitors (1.2+ million according to wikipedia), then that alone shows they make at LEAST 32mil a year alone from ticket sales (Im pulling 3mil because of random factors like Season Pass sales and their free giveaways). Take out roughly 20mil for expansion, employment costs and product fees (which I say is pretty high enough given Mayflower was their highest recent addition at 8mil), still leaves 10+ a year. Granted this is all assumptions, and would leave the park with a base of 70mil after that, I even say that is too high a number, so I will gladly drop it to maybe 35mil after all these years. That still is more than enough to cover Leviathan.

I am not trying argue here, but based on the investor relations pages of a few major companies, parks operate with a margin of about 10% (after all expenses). I bet they are lower than that with no revenue for parking or drinks.

I guess what I am saying is it is feasible for the family to have the cash (or to get a loan) to put in a $20+ million dollar ride, but I don't think they are swimming in pools of money like Scrooge McDuck.
 
Re: Bye-Bye Giraffica aka Pilgrims Plunge

I dont think they are swimming in pools of cash either, but I do believe they have more than enough money for this project (either through loans or finely tuned financing).

I will add that I do think a lot of people are underestimating the plans that Will had put into place.
 
Re: Bye-Bye Giraffica aka Pilgrims Plunge

Scrooge McDuck references are the absolute best!!!

Drove past the exit and remembered the one trip I made their years ago.
 
Re: Bye-Bye Giraffica aka Pilgrims Plunge

The park has reported via HoliBlog that this is just one big thing. Not an expansion, not a new area, one big thing. Figured I'd put that out here since that is the greatest debate so far with this mystery.

EDIT:
The park also said in the HoliBlog segment that this is the largest investment in park history by FAR. So a B&M is looking pretty plausible right now
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Since there seems to be no doubt that this will be a new coaster and construction is underway with a cam for viewing progress and all, I'm renaming and moving the topic.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

One of the clues referred to an "in-house" tool. Could this be referencing Universal's in-house-made launch for Hulk? Just a thought...

If it's a B&M it almost has to be a sit down of sorts. The story clearly addresses a ship and a wing coaster or invert simply wouldn't fit with the theme. I'm thinking a B&M launcher with new gen sit down train with Banshee restraints.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

^I thought they outsourced the launch to Premier?

Wildfire's trains were ridiculously comfortable, I'd love to see those in use here.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

^Yes, Hulk's launch was outsourced to Premier.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Just kidding.

I honestly think it is a RMC hybrid built from scratch. I remember looking at the 66 days thing, and it talked a lot about wood(ship is made of wood, picture of wood). Either that or a B&M sit down or launch. Remember, at 2013 IAAPA, B&M said they are ready to self-manufacture launch coasters! I guess only time can tell.

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Based from this grab from their webcam:
ziswie.jpg


I really don't think it's a wooden coaster, the footers are of a square shape, unlike the other footers to the RMC coasters:
silver_dollar_city_10_91.jpg


0.jpg


Although, most B&M's have square footers, there are exceptions with rounded footers. Still, there's more evidence of it being a steel coaster than an RMC or another woody. I'd be delighted to be proven wrong though.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Their would be FAR more footers placed down for a wooden ride. The footers currently placed are for a steel coaster.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Was just at the park today. There are an insane amount of footer poured already, many of which are by Hyena Falls and they were starting to be filled behind the Voyage. Also there is a building being built that looks to be way too small to be an event building. Lastly, there was a massive pile of something covered by a tarp behind the Voyage's turnaround, have no idea what it could be.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Ethan said:
^ Probably one with a lift hill by B&M? ;)

Nah, its totally for the Intamin Wing Coaster I had originally hoped for ;3

Which, if you had read from the beginning, you would have known. Alas, you just chimed in randomly.

Such a pity...not.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Intricks said:
Voyage was part of their Thanksgiving expansion as a whole, which total cost was 13.5 mil. They have publicly stated it will cost more than that, and be the largest expansion/additions in the parks history. So while what you said is true (that it can essentially just go back and forth endlessly til this is announced), lets look at some factors that are within HW favor:

1. Their terrain. Voyage takes great advantage of it, and most theorize the new ride would too (who in their right mind WOULDN'T). It was stated in one of the many other threads, that a good part of B&M cost comes from the supports (not all, but a decent chunk of it). Keeping the ride low to the ground will help negate some of those costs. If true, then using the terrain could shave off maybe 3 million from its total cost.

2. If we use the given statistic of their annual gate price (which is what, 36 now?) and multiply that by their annual visitors (1.2+ million according to wikipedia), then that alone shows they make at LEAST 32mil a year alone from ticket sales (Im pulling 3mil because of random factors like Season Pass sales and their free giveaways). Take out roughly 20mil for expansion, employment costs and product fees (which I say is pretty high enough given Mayflower was their highest recent addition at 8mil), still leaves 10+ a year. Granted this is all assumptions, and would leave the park with a base of 70mil after that, I even say that is too high a number, so I will gladly drop it to maybe 35mil after all these years. That still is more than enough to cover Leviathan.

3. The current footers poured. This one houses the most evidence towards manufacturer oddly enough. Each manufacturer cuts into their foots differently than the others, essentially giving their footers a "fingerprint" that sets them apart from the rest. Basically, if you can find me another manufacturer that uses the Almond Cut found on B&M additions, then you can disqualify the B&M theory as a whole.

As for going against the theory, there is only one main argument I have found, and that is simply stated as follows:

-It is a family owned theme park, they simply could not afford such an expensive ride based solely upon that alone.

Simply, you are right in that trying to argue with cost while having no form of data or access to that information is a moot point, but because they have never spent that amount before is also a void argument all on its own. They have run their park very smartly, and just cause they have never spent that high amount of money before, does not mean that they have never had that type of money to spend. Will was a very smart man, and was quoted as wanting to make Voyage the centerpiece of Holiday World before his untimely death. As such, he probably made the smartest and most inexpensive expansions while getting the most bang for the amount.
To point number 2, amusement parks do not build up wealth in one season. That is, while the park may have had a ticket revenue of $32M last year, that money is not 100% profit. The park has bills to pay, staff to employ, insurance to fulfill, and taxes, taxes, taxes. You are also assuming a constant attendance rate, but this number will change over time; Holiday World only reported a 883,000 in 2004.

Your point is correct, Holiday World has been profitable, and has the revenue for future ride investment. However, unless someone is able to produce quarterly statements for the company, we will never know what level of capital the park has available.

Also, the Thanksgiving expansion took place over a number of years, so it was not a one-shot investment, but a multi-phased expansion.

Holiday World absolutely has the potential to make the jump to a large-scale steel roller coaster. Every "large" amusement park has made the jump at some point in the past, and this could be Holiday World's moment.

However? I am still rooting for a water coaster. Fits with the nautical theme, and also steers more towards the quantitative theory that every major amusement park usually a river rapids, log flume, and splash boat ride.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Intricks said:
Ethan said:
^ Probably one with a lift hill by B&M? ;)

Nah, its totally for the Intamin Wing Coaster I had originally hoped for ;3

Which, if you had read from the beginning, you would have known. Alas, you just chimed in randomly.

Such a pity...not.

I apologise for having better things to do than internet forums! By bad.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

^^ Which Holiday already house 2 of those 3. Im going to refrain from arguing finances as 1)We dont know actual Profit the park meakes seasonally and 2)This realy could go back and forth until next Friday. Simply put, they have the money to do this new singular addition (Leah confirmed that this is One. Big. Thing. in one of the more recent blog posts to the holiblog) and we wont know the cost til next week when it is announced.

While I do enjoy the water coaster theory, people are seeing footers being built on the other side of Voyage now where both clearings are at, so the size of it kind of negates that addition.

The construction cam shows a building being put in, with a row of footers evenly placed apart going from the "Pit" towards Hyena Falls. Next to those footers, a building is being built that some are saying is commonly found near other coasters with launches (I honestly don't know, Ive never really paid attention).

Also, if anyone has been reading the 66 Days at Sea website, todays clue will begin the pre-written clues that will help show what they are really building!

^ Then refrain from being a twat and only reading some posts.
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Intricks said:
^ Then refrain from being a twat and only reading some posts.

Appropriate insult for a family site.
Loosen up and get a sense of humour, more people will like you! :)
 
Re: Holiday World | Unknown | Unknown

Ive done the whole bending over backwards to appease people for friendship and acquaintences. No longer care for it. So you either like me or you don't ::shrug::

Gets me better friends in the long run.

I just prefer you either read the thread or dont post in it to begin with in regards to a rides construction.
 
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