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Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launch

Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Maybe it's just me, but I've gotten the impression that people don't like it, can someone please tell me why?

I think it looks absolutely awesome! - It's unique and has a refreshing layout.
In my opinion, this is definitely one of the best new coasters in 2013.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

To me, this comes across as one of the short, gimmicky type coasters that we woud have here in the UK, not the USA, and definitely not Magic Mountain.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

It's no more short or gimmicky than Xcellerator at Knotts, and that's one of my personal favorite launch coasters. I wish there was a little more to the ride, but for what IT IS, it looks intense and fun as hell.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Martyn B said:
To me, this comes across as one of the short, gimmicky type coasters that we woud have here in the UK, not the USA, and definitely not Magic Mountain.

The word 'gimmick' is coming of very negative these days, - I would much rather have a "short" and unique coaster than a long and generic B&M looping coaster.
Also, for a park that pretty much have every coaster type, I don't think they could've have come up with anything better.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Here is (one of) the main reasons that there is some hatred towards this ride.

Ever since Deja Vu was removed, heck, when Psyclone was removed, the thought was that they would use that space for a station for the longest coaster on the planet, which they have been rumored to get basically since Maverick came out and the reviews were amazing. Rumors of using the old Metro tunnel have been going for at least ten years it seems, and with the removal of Log Jammer, by far the better of the two flumes as Jet Stream is pretty awful, the longest coaster, multi launch rumor began to pick up steam. Fast forward to about 2 weeks before the announcement and it goes from 2 miles, starting at old Log Jammer station, going back to Deja Vu, metro tunnel, basically what people were thinking would be the best coaster easily of the year, turned out to be what is Full Throttle and the space shot that is now open in the back corner.

With the amount of area they cleared, prep work was over 2 years, and then this comes along, disappointment will surely exist. At least for me, and I had gone there at least 10 times a year for a string of 8 years or so, I knew that this would never work at a park like this. The operations are just too awful to have this ride have any serviceable capacity. Combine that with the horrible announcement video of saying YOLO in it, and the "theme" it just was the perfect storm of awful. I'm fully prepared to admit I'm wrong and this will be extremely fun, but the backwards launch seems pointless, and with three trains of 12 riders (I think that's what it is, again I could be wrong) the capacity will be awful after the first month.

Take Tatsu for example, duel load station is rarely used anymore, and if it is, only two train operation, the third train has been stripped for parts, and most times I've gone in the past 4 years, it has been single train operation with waits over 3 hours. It's at the same park that during October has Riddler's Revenge, Batman, X2, and Tatsu all with single train operation, causing waits to get over 5 hours, and that's a yearly thing. So to pretend this won't suffer the same fate is just ignoring the past.

TL;DR: Didn't live up to the rumors, the theme is awful, the parks operations are horrendous, and they took up the last "prime" spot for this, with hopes of something bigger and better.

This isn't the first time the rumors proved to be false with this park, Kingda Ka was originally rumored to go to SFMM and break the 500 foot mark with the hill, budget concerns and the fear of downtime due to the heat, ultimately killed it (allegedly), and the next year Tatsu showed up, but that worked out pretty well. With Colossus rumored getting the next RMC iron horse treatment though, if this disappoints, it shouldn't last too long.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

^ You have some valid points/opinions. However, little of what you mentioned has anything to do with Full Throttle itself. It's your personal problem with the park. Premier Rides didn't fail here, in fact this looks to be their best coaster yet (if you don't include the Mummy). So yes, you make some valid points, but it's done, this is the coaster SFMM is getting. And now that it's going up, I think it looks short, but pretty kick ass.

As for the use of space. It's obvious at least to me, that the park is splitting valuble real estate. I've already heard rumors that another pretty big ride will share space with Full Throttle in the near future.

If that RMC update to Colossus does happens soon, for my money we are talking about a potential great 1-2 steel coaster punch IMO.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Ages ago, my first wife was at MM shortly after Goliath opened. She and her brother queued for over 5 hours and about 1AM, the ride broke down and everyone was kicked out of the park, with nothing for the trouble.

A few weeks later, we went so I could try and ride. We waited about 3 hours before getting to ride. Her comment was that the ride was good, but not worth wasting 8 hours in line, or even 5. She said it was a good thing that she hadn't ridden the first time, because she'd have been angry to have waited 5 hours for the ride.

If you think that park operations can't ruin a ride experience, for many people, you'd be wrong.

Waiting in line for a ride for too long, solely because of shoddy operations is a problem. In May, I'm going to MM for the first time in about three years. I'm actually hoping that this WON'T be open, just so I don't have to deal with it.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

^ It won't be.

But when it does open it will be interesting to see if it pulls some of the early crowds away from X2 and Tatsu.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

It won't make a difference because they will continue to have horrible operations. X2 has had the same lines since it opened, it never is less than 45 minutes, more likely over an hour and a half.

What will happen is the beginning rush will now be split between Tatsu and X2 route, then Full Throttle and Goliath. Say goodbye to walk on Goliath in the morning.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

tomahawKSU said:
Here is (one of) the main reasons that there is some hatred towards this ride.

Ever since Deja Vu was removed, heck, when Psyclone was removed, the thought was that they would use that space for a station for the longest coaster on the planet, which they have been rumored to get basically since Maverick came out and the reviews were amazing. Rumors of using the old Metro tunnel have been going for at least ten years it seems, and with the removal of Log Jammer, by far the better of the two flumes as Jet Stream is pretty awful, the longest coaster, multi launch rumor began to pick up steam. Fast forward to about 2 weeks before the announcement and it goes from 2 miles, starting at old Log Jammer station, going back to Deja Vu, metro tunnel, basically what people were thinking would be the best coaster easily of the year, turned out to be what is Full Throttle and the space shot that is now open in the back corner.

With the amount of area they cleared, prep work was over 2 years, and then this comes along, disappointment will surely exist. At least for me, and I had gone there at least 10 times a year for a string of 8 years or so, I knew that this would never work at a park like this. The operations are just too awful to have this ride have any serviceable capacity. Combine that with the horrible announcement video of saying YOLO in it, and the "theme" it just was the perfect storm of awful. I'm fully prepared to admit I'm wrong and this will be extremely fun, but the backwards launch seems pointless, and with three trains of 12 riders (I think that's what it is, again I could be wrong) the capacity will be awful after the first month.

Take Tatsu for example, duel load station is rarely used anymore, and if it is, only two train operation, the third train has been stripped for parts, and most times I've gone in the past 4 years, it has been single train operation with waits over 3 hours. It's at the same park that during October has Riddler's Revenge, Batman, X2, and Tatsu all with single train operation, causing waits to get over 5 hours, and that's a yearly thing. So to pretend this won't suffer the same fate is just ignoring the past.

TL;DR: Didn't live up to the rumors, the theme is awful, the parks operations are horrendous, and they took up the last "prime" spot for this, with hopes of something bigger and better.

This isn't the first time the rumors proved to be false with this park, Kingda Ka was originally rumored to go to SFMM and break the 500 foot mark with the hill, budget concerns and the fear of downtime due to the heat, ultimately killed it (allegedly), and the next year Tatsu showed up, but that worked out pretty well. With Colossus rumored getting the next RMC iron horse treatment though, if this disappoints, it shouldn't last too long.

Okay so, you can't blame it on the park, or anything other than your own expectations that you didn't got what was rumored and is disappointed. It's not like the park ever promised you anything.

What you're basically saying is, that no matter what coaster type they would ever open, it will have bad capacity. Again, can't be Full Throttle's fault.
I'm well aware that bad operations can ruin a park experience, but it's a pretty unfair argument against this ride.

The YOLO thing was pathetic for SFMM, but still complaining about it a half year after the announcement is even more pathetic.

The thing is, that if look at this coaster for what it is, and not where it is. You will eventually think it looks pretty awesome.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

For a park that hasn't had a GOOD solid edition since Tatsu, and has the most coasters on the planet, it's expected to be more than this. Apocalypse is far from great, and Green Lantern is another extremely low capacity ride.

How is low capacity an unfair argument when the way this ride is designed, that is exactly what it is, a low capacity ride that will lead to extreme queues. And the YOLO thing is the ENTIRE theme of this ride. So yeah, it's still relevant.

If this was at a different Six Flags would I think of it differently? Of course, and the sentiment against this would be the same if it were at Cedar Point. A park of this size shouldn't get a bad capacity coaster. Being in the second largest city in the US, and the crowds it sees on a daily basis, you need people eaters more than something like this and Green Lantern.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

The capacity arguement is valid, but let's face it, this is a park where a great capacity ride in theory can still NOT be. So once again, that's a park operations problem, not a Full Throttle problem.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Only been to the park once but did not see any of these problems.

After reading things I was expecting it to be bad but found the park no worse than any other I've been to.

The only coaster we had a long wait on was Tatsu and that was due to a break down.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Newtrek5 said:
The capacity arguement is valid, but let's face it, this is a park where a great capacity ride in theory can still NOT be. So once again, that's a park operations problem, not a Full Throttle problem.

Considering the fact that traditional operations, ride maintenance, and other daily park rituals are a big part of what is going to be running this coaster for its lifespan, Tomohawk has a perfectly valid point to not feel pumped for this ride.

Many, many ride experiences were ruined for me by the ride operators and their practices at nearly every park I've been to in the last few years. When a park is having a packed day it should be fully expected that they're prepared for the crowds, and it really ruins an experience when you're sitting in line for 3+ hours to ride a ride that lasts all of 45 seconds. I haven't been to Magic Mountain but other parks suffered the same operations issues with their rides when they first opened, and they caused a lot of strife because of those same faults. Kingda Ka, Skyrush, TDKC, S:UF, H:RRR, i305, and a few others I cba to mention all had at least 3+ hour lines when I rode them for the first time. They all had issues with their operations that made the experience of waiting to ride them annoying, and then they had moments that completely detracted (and nearly ruined) the experience I had with them. You cannot totally dismiss horrible operation practices that a park has, just because they're getting a new ride. In all likeliness, unless there are HUGE changes in their practices, the new rides will fall into the same pattern as the older rides. It may seem like an awesome ride at first, but those continuous 2+ hour lines and horrible operations will catch up with the experience fast. Likely within the year.

marc said:
Only been to the park once but did not see any of these problems.

After reading things I was expecting it to be bad but found the park no worse than any other I've been to.

The only coaster we had a long wait on was Tatsu and that was due to a break down

Visiting once doesn't mean those operations are always as such. You could've visited on an inactive day, for all you knew. Visiting multiple times over the course of a year, and even across multiple years, shows the patterns that their operations practices show.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

See, I haven't ridden apocalypse nor GL:FF, but I've ridden similar rides, and therefore I think this is more about you personally not liking this coaster.
What I'm looking for is a substantial argument for why this is a bad addition to SFMM.

Low capacity is a unfair argument because you state in your post that pretty much every coaster in the park has crappy capacity. And since this is a park with a wide range of coaster models, you would think that no matter what ride they'd add, it would end up having bad capacity, and that's why I think it's an invalid argument as to why Full Throttle is a bad addition.
Newtrek5 pretty much said it perfectly with this post:
Newtrek5 said:
The capacity arguement is valid, but let's face it, this is a park where a great capacity ride in theory can still NOT be. So once again, that's a park operations problem, not a Full Throttle problem.

And Full Throttle's 3 train operation is about as good capacity as on your average B&M looper.
The reason why this eventually will have bad capacity is because of the park operations, which obviously, again has nothing to do with the coaster itself.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Bmac, how does having horrible operations detract from the rode itself though?

You get annoyed and then stay annoyed to the point in which you have a **** time riding something? Im a pessimist, but even that makes me think you arent clearly on your rocker and just genuinely hate that park or park owner.

Seriously, the argument is like saying Maverick was **** cause it has one of the longest lines in the park.

You are at a very large and busy park, **** deal with it.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Invalid this, invalid that, holy batman people.

This has quickly escalated into a "whose opinion is right" argument where the subject isn't even agreed upon. Half of you people are judging the coaster on its on individual merits, and the other half are taking into both the park its in and preconceived notions about what the coaster should be. Those are very different things.

As it's been said, if this coaster was being constructed at a smaller Six Flags the general opinion would be a bit more positive. Completely understandable. Definitely a unique ride, and should be quite photogenic!

I don't post much at this point, but I had to interject. It's getting kind of silly.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

Everything was running fine when I went in 2009. It was quite busy but everything was running more than 1 train... maybe they spite trains when it's a bit quieter, meaning the queues actually get longer? My opinion isn't very valid because it's the only time I've been, but yeah.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

The difference is that Tom has been to the park multiple times and has obviously had some ugly experiences. I've been there once and the park was next to empty. The only issue I ran into was with Riddler's Revenge. Somebody threw up and they couldn't for the life of them figure out how to efficiently clean the train. I ended up waiting an hour and a half and that train was never loaded during my entire wait. At a Cedar Fair park, the train would have been rinsed three times and then cycled until dry - a process that takes about 20 minutes max.

You may go to Magic Mountain and have a fantastic experience, but you could also go and have an awful experience. It's just generally known that park operations at Magic Mountain are generally worse than other parks.

As for the ride having low capacity - Premier is an engineering firm that designs roller coasters. A consumer, in this case, SFMM, orders a ride and gives the engineering firm certain constraints in which to design the ride. Sometimes a consumer is very specific, other times they say design us a ride. Magic Mountain should know how many people go through their turnstiles every year, especially on a busy day, and the constraint of rider throughput should have been near the top of the list. Full Throttle has a throughput of 800 riders per hour. Compare that to Gatekeeper, which has a throughput of 1,710 riders per hour.

Comparing the two more closely, Gatekeeper has three trains with 32 riders per train, as well as a mid course brake run. Full Throttle has two trains with 18 riders per train, as well as a mid course brake run. It only takes one of Gatekeeper's trains to match both of Full Throttle's trains.

Six Flags could have seen the low throughput number and told Premier that it was unacceptable. There are 'easy' ways to redesign the ride to increase throughput. First, increasing the number of cars per train to four or five helps significantly. The addition of a duel loading station, whether side by side or one behind the other also helps. Adding more block sections for more trains and then stacking said trains will help a bit as well.

tl;dr version is that although the ride concept is cool and it will surely be a fun ride, it was executed extremely poorly. This should explain why there is so much backlash.
 
Re: Six Flags Magic Mountain | "Full Throttle" | multi launc

All valid points. But I agree with what others have said, the park's capacity hasn't been any worst than most parks I've been to with new attractions, and I go all the time. There's no way in hell I'm catching all these days at the park by accident. While the park does have it's problems, other than X it's first few years, I've never had a problem with super long waits at this park.

SFMM has 18 rollercoasters to divide the crowds. Full Throttle actually ADDS capacity to the park, not the other way around.

Comparing a ride at a tourist destination to a mostly locals park like SFMM isn't the best comparison either.
 
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