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NEMESIS: SUB-TERRA [Alton 2012]

OK, lets get back to discussing the actual ride now and not the specifics of peoples opinions shall we.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion whether you like it or not and if they voice that opinion using a very well known phrase then so be it. If you don't agree or don't like that opinion, well, that is just tough. If you want to keep arguing about the validity of a persons own opinion by all means, knock yourselves out, but do it in PMs and not in the topic please.

In terms of my thoughts on the ride. I do think they can POSSIBLY improve it from where it was at last weekend (the week after opening) but it is going to take some serious work for the reasons I mentioned before. Perhaps sufficient changes will be made, perhaps they wont. That remains to be seen...

It may be worth noting that during its first few months Hex also went through a lot of changes, additions and subtractions because of public response so it is plausible that the ride could be improved... but will it be enough?
 
Yes let's talk about the ride, specifically what has actually been changed to improve it...

Firstly, they've placed some of that plastic door hanger stuff in the big space of the entrance, making it darker, enclosed and more atmospheric. The metal detectors also the entrance now beep. Silly addition, but it does kinda work...

Inside, two new TVs sit, where the Phanlanx logo is constantly on repeat until a new video is shown, which not only briefly explains Nemesis, but also what's going on for the ride (i.e. The nest is off limits, however we have brought one up for people to see... Dunno HOW this could go wrong...), and it does further the story a bit more...

Into the lifts, and the only differences here really are more vibrations, and a change in the video, being louder and more descriptive of what we have to do in the core...

The core is (naturally) where most of the changes have taken place, with darker lighting, smoke, and a loud heartbeat upon your arrival and during loading... The show begins as before, until the first power surge begins, which before hand involved the egg hatching and the drop. Instead, the egg hatches, power returns and we can now see the broken egg in the middle. Creature roars, lights go out again, we then drop. From this point, it's mostly the same experience as before, but with much more violent leg ticklers (unavoidable with raised legs) and upon returning to the core, louder sirens, strobes and flashing lights...

It's a minimal change to the ride itself, BUT, it does make a fair bit more sense to those who may not have twigged that the water (which is less in volume) represented the hatching eggs, helping the nest sequence also make a lot more sense really...

Into the lifts, which have no lights aside from the flashing warning red light of impending doom, doors close and it 'rises' as before. Difference here, is that when the creatures attack, it's pitch black and a LOT louder. With some extra air cannons inside as well (most likely located in the falling panels) it feels a very different experience with all this going on and no vision whatsoever...

The doors open, and (if they have enough staff it seems) you may get lucky and have some operative come into the lift yelling "GET OUT" causing one last jump and some potential for members of both lifts to leg it to the bag drop...

Overall, it does not seem like much has changed, indeed, it's still a single drop (which felt relatively forceful, but it won't ever be that much due to the mechanism of the ride and the floor), but the story and sense of claustrophobia are much improved. Whilst it still gets mixed reviews afterwards (which ride doesn't?) inside there seems to be a fair bit of fear and panic, especially when for some reason the offloader decides to pack 3 towers into one lift (due to the bars not raising, which actually in a way DOES cause more panic and fear in some cases), leaving the rest of us confused and in a rather empty lift.

It's still not going to be everyone's cup of tea, or the best dark ride ever, but considering the amount of space available, they have given it a fair good go, and the changes improve it quite a bit, making it a relatively different ride to what I originally did a week ago, and VERY different to what anyone did on opening day, so it might be worth another shot and maybe then we shall see if it will find it's own place on the park like the last ride that everyone hated after the first go *cough*thirteen*cough*
 
I'm glad to hear improvements being made. What Benin describes sounds awesome...

Did you take any note in what the public seemed to think this time round? Same slurr of negativity reported before, or was the atmosphere upon exit any different?

Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk
 
Again, it's a mixed bag, with the majority of the "It's **** crowd" being groups of teenage lads... On the ride of course, the screams tell a different story...

Apparently reviews have been more positive today, we gave one as well, mentioning it was better than last week but I cannot really say about many others... But it seemed to work a lot better overall...
 
Martyn I agree with you, but they are going to have to change quiet a bit but it does look like they are. I just don't have as much faith as you do after the improvements they were going to make to 13 that never happened
Click to expand...

Thing is, all that talk of changes on 13 was just fanboy rubbish. This time around, they clearly are making changes, and positives ones too.

I never rode Hex when it first opened, but apparently, all this thats going on with Sub-terra happened with Hex too. (ie, opened ****, and they altered it)
 
I only rode hex for the 1st time a few years back as well so I have no idea what was changed.

Well some of what's been said today makes it sound better so shall give it another go next time.
 
Many people are thinking this could be a rollercoaster of some sort, I think that is only adding to their disappointment.
 
Glad that they're making changes. I remember them taking a similar approach with Hex too.

I thought it had potential to be pretty good, such as a larger drop after the first one and some better effects to create a 'climax'. The problem, I believe, is that it was an attraction without a climax, so the first thing I would do is to enhance the experience in the final lift. Not sure if what they have done will have done that.

Looking forward to riding this again soon and seeing how it has altered.
 
Tom G said:
Many people are thinking this could be a rollercoaster of some sort, I think that is only adding to their disappointment.
Click to expand...

Only an idiot would thing that tbh :roll:
 
Particularly when there's Nemesis Inferno.

The word Nemesis simply puts rollercoaster in the majority of the public's head.

That's only adding to disappointment anyway, I think people don't like it in general.
 
No, I can see why people would think "coaster" if they were short clips of rails, on moving trains etc. Notice how every coaster advert, both from Alton and most other park, has either a coaster or hints that it is definately a coaster.

The only thing this has is a close up of a face which is falling. I think that gives a lot away to anyone watching closely.
 
Dunno what most people think, but there are a lot of guests who have no idea what is going to happen...

I have no idea if people think it'll be a rollercoaster whilst they actually queue up, considering they can actually see Nemesis and it's made pretty clear in the queueline TVs that it's nothing of the sort... So there is really no excuse for anyone to even think it...

People do seem to like it when coming out though, which is good to see, although there wasn't much difference of opinion between last week and yesterday, but I do implore people to give it another go on their next visit to see what they themselves think of the changes...
 
Probably depends how long they've queued, too. Oh a coaster, most people forget they queued by the time they exit. But on other kinds of rides, people seem to judge their worth against the line.

I can only assume thats because the physical act of being moved about in space gives the illusion that coasters are worthwhile and last a substantial amount of time, regardless of how long they actually last.
 
I'm sort of saying that its Nemesis name conjures a rollercoaster impression in people's head. Probably the first time they see an advert or poster for it they will wonder if that's what it is.

I'm not saying lots of people will enter the lift expecting it to be one and leaving crying it wasn't, but I do think it's enhancing their dismay somewhat.

I like the linking to the original story, but perhaps it was just a mistake from a marketing point of view.

Perhaps a little tag line as part of the title, like Hex - The Legend of the Towers, would make all the difference.

Maybe Nemesis - What Lies Beneath was a better name all along...
 
I think they wanted to give the ride its own name. What Lies Beneath was too many syllables so they decided with the pun Sub-Terra. They needed to include the name Nemesis with the ride's name so visitors would know the two rides were linked.
However, Sub-Terra is fairly vague whilst WLB was straight to the point.

I think it was just unfortunate circumstances.
 
The changes are pretty much the kind of thing I thought (and said) were needed to make the ride work. They just completely messed up the timings and the "progression" of the ride.

I think it will still be too short, but at least there's a degree of story-telling now, putting people in the correct context and letting it flow properly. It's a very short ride though, so people will always be disappointed (I remember in 1994 people saying Nemesis was rubbish compared to PMBO because it only lasts a few seconds, "at least you get a good few minutes on t'Big 'Un").

It was about how it works, and you could see the tension build too late, which is what caused it to fail on opening. It shot it's load too soon and messily. The ride is always going to be a short drop tower, that's the actual "ride". Like Hex is simply a "spinning room" - it's about how you present it and Sub-Terra presented it very badly.

I went on Hex a few weeks after opening and got the full show. It was a little awkward with "scientist actors" making it feel a little childish, but it embellished the story and the Octagon room was much more prolonged and intense. I can see why they cut it back, it's much more effective now. There it was a case of less was more, Sub-Terra is the complete opposite.
 
*SPOILERS AHEAD*

Ok I finally got to ride Sub-Terra today. I'll be honest, I thought it was really good. After the bashing it got I really didn't think it would be, but I enjoyed it. Whether it's a bit of fanboyism or these changes I don't know, but I liked it. There was still something not quite right though.

I can't really talk about changes because I didn't ride it before they were made, but there were, as others say, screens before the first lift clearly explaining the story. At this point it seemed rather comparable to Tower of Terror at Disney (standing on designated steps waiting for a lift...). I didn't really have a problem with the staff shouting; I thought it added to the experience and there was a guy walking through the queue talking to everyone.

So the first "lift". It appears to go down and all that. Then a Phalanx guy shouts and scares the hell out of most people in the lift. After being ushered to your seat and being told to put your arms up, the restraint goes down and it begins. Honestly, I think this main part of the ride is done fantastically well. The theming is great and if I didn't know it was about to drop I'd be thinking: "What the hell is about to happen?!". I can't remember exactly what happens but there's a lot of darkness and spray and general panic which builds a hell of a lot of anticipation for the drop itself.

You drop and then you're in the cave - which also looked good - and you get the prods and the tentacles. These were really effective. Back up you go (in darkness) and your restraint lifts up. All good up to now then. After this the ride just goes downhill a bit. You are told to get to the exit because the egg's hatched, but nobody knows where the exit is. After being told where to go, everyone dwindles into the lift and there doesn't feel any rush at all. The final lift goes pitch black and you feel the floor go and the like, which are all good effects, but then the door opens and you get shouted at "Go, Go, Go".

This is my biggest issue. This implies there's still something else coming. If it showed you that Nemesis had gone back down into the cave or something, it would show the ride has ended. But you're being shouted at to carry on like there's another scene. I don't have a problem with the length of the ride as it is - I personally feel it's quite substantial, but there is no real end. I think the question "Is that it?" stems from this problem.

However, as a whole, I think it's quite a solid ride. It's a fantastic concept and the GP certainly seemed to be enjoying it today. It may be due to these changes that they've made but it sounds like it's made it better. Alton seems to have had a little sprucing up in certain places as well - the rapids queue being separated and the moving of the Rita single rider and fastrack queues. I wasn't as happy with the apparent reduction of lights in Duel though.
 
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