How much do you tip?

[furie]

Well, that went to hell in a hand basket pretty rapidly. I already had a reply in place ,and I think it's still relevant ?!?

Smithy, anyone who works in customer service will tell you that being handed ten cents is the most insulting thing someone can do. Either tip properly, or don't tip at all. I don't want your crack change thank you very much .

On this point, I agree...

Furie, I know you take the piss, but it's like EVERYTHING I post now has the piss taken out of it and it's just beyond annoying now. Not just from you, but from everybody. Part of my job is having to interact with people to get tips.. Everyone who works as a shooter girl knows it. I'm proud of myself for working two jobs and going to school full time including pilot school now on top of everything. My hobbies are expensive, and I like getting a bit of recognition for doing a good job. I don't see how it's a crime.

Right, let's try and get this into perspective. Firstly, you work hard to pay your way and you SHOULD be proud. I think it's great that you do so much to make your life work. I take the piss more than I openly recognise when people are doing good, so sincerely Taylor, I think you're doing not just the right thing, but I admire that you can take on such a heavy workload.

On top of that, if people are taking the piss it's for two reasons.
One, you're doing something interesting and unusual. You don't see people taking the piss out of tks for sorting out refilling vending machines because there's a lack of material to work with. So if people have "ammunition" for taking the piss, it's because it's something interesting.
Two, it's because you're communicating and being social. CF (in areas like this and the vent thread, etc) is a pedestal for you to stand on and "show off". We all do it and it's part of being a community. You do it in the hope that we'll care and respond. We do care Tay, we just show it in a slightly odd way

Okay, back on topic to clear up what I meant in an earlier discussion about time taken etc.

Everyone who works as a shooter girl knows it.

First up, we're not shooter girls. We don't know exactly how things work, but the difference between you and Jordan (as far as I can see) is this (I'm making up the numbers):

Jordan gets paid £10/ hour to serve tables. The restaurant expects her to do 4 tables an hour (simultaneously) and they'll make an average of £30 per table. So the income for the restaurant is £120, Jordon gets her £10. Now, to server four tables simultaneously, Jordan has to dedicate 15 minutes per table. If table 1 are arses and table 2 are lovely. Tables 3 and 4 are just average. So instead of spending 15 minutes with table 1, she instead gives a little extra time to table 2. So table 2 maybe gets 20 minutes of attention over the hour, while table 1 gets 10 minutes.

Come pay up time, table 2 pay their £30 and tip Jordan £5. Table 1 pay, but give her nothing and Tables 3 and 4 give her £2.50 and pay. So Jordan has made £10 in tips, spent an hour working and the restaurant has made £120 less Jordan's £10 wages.

Pretty simple stuff.

Now Taylor (remember, the numbers are all made up)...
You get paid $10 an hour to server $10 shots to "guests". If there are 12 people in wanting shots in an hour, then the club should expect to see $120 per hour off you in shots if you can server a person every 5 minutes.
You see a guy who is a potential for some tips, so you smooze him, chat, have a dance and spend 15 minutes working on him. He buys a shot off you and tips you $5. You then go and see another guy who looks like he may tip well and do the 15 minute smooze act, but he buys a shot and doesn't tip. You're pissed because you've spent 15 minutes trying to get a tip from him.
In the other times, you're serving other guests who ask for a shot directly off you (general none-tippers say).
See, the issue I have is this... You've only actually been selling shots for half the time you're at work. The rest of the time you're "being friendly". Now, don't get me wrong, it's great you enjoy the work and can do that, but while you're doing that, work are paying you money to serve shots that make them money. So here you've made them $70 in shots and they've paid you $10. You've got $5 in tips, but you've only done half the "work" Jordan has, the rest has been either in personal gratification, or an attempt to earn more through tips.

Do you see why it's a very different way you both operate? Jordan's job is to sort out the tables. She gets paid and works constantly, anything she does that deserves a tip requires an extra amount of effort from her on top of what her job is. For you, the tipping and job come hand in hand really. You can't sell shots unless you are gregarious, and being gregarious also helps get you tips. At no point can Jordan stop serving and clearing to stop and chat to a customer to try and get tips. For you, it's the job AND the tipping platform. Am I making sense?

Hence why I said the two really can't be compared

 

[Gazza]

Theres no real obligligation to tip in Australia because staff don't rely on them, so I never do.

$19 Minimum wage bitchez!

($19.80 US , $19.73 CA, £12.4 , €14.86 equivalent)

 

[SaiyanHajime]

WAIT... TGI Fridays staff get more than minimum wage? Almost TWICE minimum wage??

Definitely won't ever be tipping there now.

But I want a tip when I help any of you onto a ride, especially if you expect me to pick up your filthy child. Thanks.

 

[nadroJ]

WAIT... TGI Fridays staff get more than minimum wage? Almost TWICE minimum wage??

Definitely won't ever be tipping there now.

But I want a tip when I help any of you onto a ride, especially if you expect me to pick up your filthy child. Thanks.

Errm, not that it actually is anybody's business to know how much I earn on my wage, but it's definitely NOT £10 an hour!

Also, I think preaching feminist theory to Smithy is *insert relevant simile here*. And the fact that some of you guys are telling me to get off of my soapbox or similar and to stop going on about it just proves the attitude even moreso, so....

Smithy, you have a really defensive attitude when I talk about some of this stuff, and call it out as stupid and bollocks and being blown out of proportion. I know you're probably not interested in the slightest (why should you be, not like it concerns YOU) but if you took a minute to read through some feminist blogs etc, who are MUCH better at explaining things like this than I am, then maybe you'd be able to see more clearly where I'm coming from? You don't have to agree with it, of course everybody is entitled to their opinion, but even I didn't realise some of the stuff I do now until reading this stuff, and it's all very clear to me now. Preaching this sort of stuff to a place like CF where it is a massively male environment is always going to be met with misunderstanding, and even in your case, defensiveness and anger, but I feel like I need to do it nonetheless because it's something I really do feel strongly about. Sorry if my feminism offends/annoys you.

The more I read up about the feminism stuff, especially the stuff related to sexual assault and how it is joked about and how it is made out to be the victim's fault, the more I see it and the more I want to call people out for it. Just because you're not LITERALLY saying people like Taylor asked for it, doesn't mean you're not implying it was her fault. By saying 'she placed herself in that position' means you are suggesting it is her own fault she got assaulted, a notion that I know a lot of you guys agree with. And that is just not the case. No matter how much you guys moan and disagree, it's just wrong to say that the way a person acts means it's their fault that something horrible like this happened to them.

And no, Taylor didn't report it to her manager, or the police. But she DID feel violated, as she expressed here. Now personally, I WOULD have reported it, because sexual assault is just, NO. But I'm willing to suggest that the reason she didn't report it is because most people would go 'what, that's ALL he did?' and then do what you guys have done and say something along the lines of not 'inviting' it in the first place!

But obviously you guys can't and won't see it like that, so, as I'm surrounded by like-minded people I guess the message just isn't going to get across.



ANYWAY, back to tipping and why everyone feels people who get tipped aren't entitled to it!

 

[furie]

If only I'd said, twice, "I'm making up the numbers" :roll:

 

[nadroJ]

^Lol, I realised that, don't worry ;]

Also, 4 tables at a time? Try 8 tables at a time! <3

 

[kimahri]

Since I'm not the kind of person to go off topic and stuff I'll keep this breif.

Can we have a feminism thread now? Every time is gets brought up it's always in the middle of some other conversation, thus it's watered down and you don't the full understanding.

One more thing. I never tip cause I'm never the one paying :3

 

[nadroJ]

Since I'm not the kind of person to go off topic and stuff I'll keep this breif.

Can we have a feminism thread now? Every time is gets brought up it's always in the middle of some other conversation, thus it's watered down and you don't the full understanding.

One more thing. I never tip cause I'm never the one paying :3

Lol, that's because I'm always the one in the middle arguing it ;]

I don't want to make a 'feminism' topic, because where the hell do you begin a debate that is actually a massive factor in EVERYTHING (in the kind of society we live in anyway). I dunno, it won't stop me bringing it up in other topics so I don't really see the point.

 

[furie]

If you ask one of the men, he'll show you how to set up a topic, or he'll do it for you if you like my dear?

 

[nadroJ]

If you ask one of the men, he'll show you how to set up a topic, or he'll do it for you if you like my dear?

And who said chivalry was dead ;] So kind of you furie =p

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

Now Taylor (remember, the numbers are all made up)...
You get paid $10 an hour to server $10 shots to "guests". If there are 12 people in wanting shots in an hour, then the club should expect to see $120 per hour off you in shots if you can server a person every 5 minutes.
You see a guy who is a potential for some tips, so you smooze him, chat, have a dance and spend 15 minutes working on him. He buys a shot off you and tips you $5. You then go and see another guy who looks like he may tip well and do the 15 minute smooze act, but he buys a shot and doesn't tip. You're pissed because you've spent 15 minutes trying to get a tip from him.
In the other times, you're serving other guests who ask for a shot directly off you (general none-tippers say).
See, the issue I have is this... You've only actually been selling shots for half the time you're at work. The rest of the time you're "being friendly". Now, don't get me wrong, it's great you enjoy the work and can do that, but while you're doing that, work are paying you money to serve shots that make them money. So here you've made them $70 in shots and they've paid you $10. You've got $5 in tips, but you've only done half the "work" Jordan has, the rest has been either in personal gratification, or an attempt to earn more through tips.

Yeah but work doesn't mind. In fact, the manager had a sit down with us and told us we need to start spending more time with the customers because not only does it usually make them buy a shot or two, or in the best case, a round for their friends (income for the club), they usually tip and the managers are always really happy for us when we go home having made some money for ourselves. People have complained that the shooter girls are too pushy, which I'm not, and I do understand that not everyone is gonna tip. I never even knew it was customary to tip the bar and shooter girls before I worked in one. But the other day was particularly discouraging having spent so much time with everyone and selling so much and only getting $15. Most of the time when I work I just go around saying "do you guys want a shot?" and usually try to get guys to buy their gals one or whatever, but if I see a particularly friendly group of people I'll stand and talk because I want to, especially if I've already made rounds around the club (it's not a big club at all so once you've asked everyone you don't wanna bug them again). I've never actually danced with someone and not gotten a tip I don't think, or made a sale.. It's just the method I choose to use rather than walking around with shots in my G-string or pushing a shot on someone who has already said no. I think that's rude and I wouldn't want someone doing that to me, and I don't feel okay with giving shots out of my underwear especially when I do just fine with how I sell them.

Also I do appreciate your words. I was just in a pissy mood yesterday because it seemed like EVERYONE was on me which got really annoying, and I just keep getting annoyed people bringing up the boob thing because I really never found it funny. I don't mind when people take the piss just not necessarily about that . I think I worded myself wrong though, I don't post my accomplishments on here to get applause or anything but it's like anytime I post anything I get insulted, if that makes sense. Like Smithy saying it's funny I'm still at a job where that happened.. Our economy is ****, it's impossible to get a job, heck yes I'm still there and I make damn good money, so why wouldn't I stay? He's just well jel of my piggy banks full o' cash because I'm ballllin .

 

[Ben]

Since I'm not the kind of person to go off topic and stuff I'll keep this breif.

Can we have a feminism thread now? Every time is gets brought up it's always in the middle of some other conversation, thus it's watered down and you don't the full understanding.

One more thing. I never tip cause I'm never the one paying :3

Lol, that's because I'm always the one in the middle arguing it ;]

I don't want to make a 'feminism' topic, because where the hell do you begin a debate that is actually a massive factor in EVERYTHING (in the kind of society we live in anyway). I dunno, it won't stop me bringing it up in other topics so I don't really see the point.

Bitch don't wanna make a "women have it so bad" topic cause she just knows we'll play the gay card, and the gay card trumps the woman card every time <3

 

[kimahri]

If you ask one of the men, he'll show you how to set up a topic, or he'll do it for you if you like my dear?

And who said chivalry was dead ;] So kind of you furie =p

WIMINZ ARE USELESS!

 

[Smithy]

And yes Smithy, I did stay at my job because it's good money and I'm not letting one bad incident cost me a few thousand dollars a year. I have stuff to pay for, it doesn't make me an idiot for not storming out the door and quitting because one jerk came into the club.

Ah, so your dignity and respect for yourself have a price?

Sorry, but I've maintained throughout the action itself was way out of line, I just can't fathom the logic behind being lectured by yourself and Jordan how bad it was, and then have you justify staying at a job that relies upon placing you in a situation where it's more likely to occur because ''it pays well''.

And yes I did tell my manager, but there was nothing he could do after the fact because everyone was already gone.

Why not the police? Not nitpicking, genuinely curious.

This is a tipping topic, I refuse to make it a topic related to what happened at my work ONE time. Saying I should have quit my job because of it is kinda like saying theme parks are dangerous and you shouldn't go to them because a handful of accidents occur throughout the year.

Rofl it's not even remotely like that.

If I walk through the centre of Cambridge, at 2pm, with my phone out, and get stabbed, people will say it's a shocking attack.

If I walk through the centre of Hackney, at 2am, with my phone out, and get stabbed, people will still say it's shocking, but also that I could have reduced the chance of it happening.

Saying that doesn't attribute blame to me, nor does it make the action of the other person right.

Also, I think preaching feminist theory to Smithy is *insert relevant simile here*. And the fact that some of you guys are telling me to get off of my soapbox or similar and to stop going on about it just proves the attitude even moreso, so....

Of course it has nothing to do with the fact you just threw out a shocking generalisation based upon the slimmest of shreds of relevance in order to bring up the whole feminism argument.

Smithy, you have a really defensive attitude when I talk about some of this stuff, and call it out as stupid and bollocks and being blown out of proportion. I know you're probably not interested in the slightest (why should you be, not like it concerns YOU) but if you took a minute to read through some feminist blogs etc, who are MUCH better at explaining things like this than I am, then maybe you'd be able to see more clearly where I'm coming from?

I took offence to you essentially blowing up in a sarcastic bitch fit because not only did it not apply to the situation, but it just threw out assumptions about myself and the others who've commented. My defensive attitude partly stems from worying like **** about something happening to my girlfriend or my sister that they have no control over. I then see Taylors situation being treated and grouped together with 'serious sexual assault, rape and murder', which tbh annoyed me. Sorry if I blew up (didn't even think I reacted that badly tbh) but if either of them were in her situation when it happened I'd be pissed off at them for putting themselves into a scenario where some scumbag **** would take advantage. I'd expect both of them to be more sensible than that.

You don't have to agree with it, of course everybody is entitled to their opinion, but even I didn't realise some of the stuff I do now until reading this stuff, and it's all very clear to me now. Preaching this sort of stuff to a place like CF where it is a massively male environment is always going to be met with misunderstanding, and even in your case, defensiveness and anger, but I feel like I need to do it nonetheless because it's something I really do feel strongly about. Sorry if my feminism offends/annoys you.

It doesn't. Fully entitled to your beliefs, fully entitled to share them; I'd take issue if you start lecturing us based on what you've read on a feminist blog.

The more I read up about the feminism stuff, especially the stuff related to sexual assault and how it is joked about and how it is made out to be the victim's fault, the more I see it and the more I want to call people out for it.

That's fine. But do it correctly, don't loosely try and draw a connection before throwing out a massive generalisation.

Just because you're not LITERALLY saying people like Taylor asked for it, doesn't mean you're not implying it was her fault.

And this is what I take issue with. You're assuming that there's an implication there; there isn't, but because it suits your agenda to believe it exists, you run along with it as if we MUST think along these lines. No matter how many times it's been stated, in clear text, that we're not blaming Taylor for what the guy did, just suggesting she didn't help the situation (see my example above, or Ben's in the relevant topic) it's being thrown back at us that we're blaming her. Because it suits your argument to believe as much.

By saying 'she placed herself in that position' means you are suggesting it is her own fault she got assaulted, a notion that I know a lot of you guys agree with. And that is just not the case. No matter how much you guys moan and disagree, it's just wrong to say that the way a person acts means it's their fault that something horrible like this happened to them.

No, it doesn't.

It's rightly pointing out that she put herself in a position where it is more likely. There's a monumental difference between the two. Again, you're blindly assuming (without any actualy evidence of what was said by any of us) that we blamed her, because it suits your agenda to do so so you can spout out the arguments you've read up on and claim they're relevant in this situation.

But obviously you guys can't and won't see it like that, so, as I'm surrounded by like-minded people I guess the message just isn't going to get across.

Ahh, the old ''Why doesn't anybody agree with me'' line.

What you fail to understand is that we DO get it. Completely. We all understand your argument, the basis behind it, and why you feel strongly about it. But in trying to apply it to this situation is where it backfires, because you've made an awful lot of assumptions in order to criticise several of us, and these assumptions and suggested implication as to what's been said just simply don't ring true.

 

[nadroJ]

Since I'm not the kind of person to go off topic and stuff I'll keep this breif.

Can we have a feminism thread now? Every time is gets brought up it's always in the middle of some other conversation, thus it's watered down and you don't the full understanding.

One more thing. I never tip cause I'm never the one paying :3

Lol, that's because I'm always the one in the middle arguing it ;]

I don't want to make a 'feminism' topic, because where the hell do you begin a debate that is actually a massive factor in EVERYTHING (in the kind of society we live in anyway). I dunno, it won't stop me bringing it up in other topics so I don't really see the point.

Bitch don't wanna make a "women have it so bad" topic cause she just knows we'll play the gay card, and the gay card trumps the woman card every time <3

I don't think women have it so bad, I think we actually have it pretty good, but it doesn't stop stuff like thus being an issue ;]

Also, I kind of think 'the gay card' and 'the woman card' are basically one of the same, along with like, racism and stuff. It's more to do with representation and how society deals with issues involving the non-privileged groups in society and stuff. Yerrr.


And Smithy, just because you can't see that what I'm saying is true, doesn't mean it's NOT true. Because it is true. Like I already said, read some feminist theory (not just blogs preached by random people, I mean real socilogical theorists who have studied and written about this stuff) then maybe you'll realise that what I'm saying isn't just a 'massive generalisation based on a tiny shred of evidence' and that it actually IS an issue. I guess it's how you read things, but I do believe in your case that because on the surface it doesn't seem like an issue, when people start peeling back the layers and pointing out the problems with the way women (and all non-privileged groups, actually) are treated in society in a MASSIVE way compared to the privileged (basically, white men). Honestly, read some of the theorist's work if you don't believe me. It is all there. With evidence and research to back it up. I'm not just 'throwing a bitch fit' either. I'm not angry or anything, merely trying to explain things from a feminist perspective, which is clearly something you are impossible to see things from. If you got your head into this mode for a second and looked at most things around you (from representation in advertising and films to the way 'women's issues' are dealt with by people like the police and the government, in American moreso than in Britain, but the problem is still here too). I know that you (and probably a lot of others on here) think that what I'm saying is ridiculous and blown out of proportion, but I assure you I'm not just some angry, man-hating feminist, I'm merely trying to not be so blind about massive issues in the world. And I know I keep saying feminism, but as a feminist I feel the feelings I have about these issues can easily be applied to gay, race, etc, issues too ;]

Sooo, to keep this on topic (lol), I have a tipping story that backs up my thing I was saying the other day about how it is insulting when someone leaves you a crap tip.

So, I had this tables (who were arseholes from the word go, they sat themselves at a table that was clearly laid up for a party booking, had balloons and confetti and stuff and were just plain RUDE, but I can deal with that). Anyway, when it came to taking their payment they all wanted separate bills, which again, if you've worked as a server you will know this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse. So a few paid on card, and none of them tipped (I wasn't expecting them to, no big deal) and then the last woman paid a £17.08 bill with a £20 note. I gave her £2.92 in change, from which she put £2 in her pocket, then handed me the rest. Again, I wasn't really bothered until she said 'sorry, it's all the change I have'. Errrm......pretty sure I just handed you about £3 in change XD So annoying! As I said before, if you're not going to tip, don't tip, and certainly don't lie when I've just personally given you your change! Hahaha XD

 

[Smithy]

And Smithy, just because you can't see that what I'm saying is true, doesn't mean it's NOT true. Because it is true.

Ahh, the old ''Why doesn't anybody agree with me'' line.

Right.

You've not understood where I'm coming from. And, ironically, gone and done exactly what I was trying to point out without even realising it.

I'm not disagreeing with your views on feminism, it's effects on society etc. I'm disagreeing to the link you formed between the discussion about Taylor and your own beliefs about a much wider issue. That's the fulcrum of my disagreement. That's where my quotes about 'slimmest of links of relevance' come in, because you took a situation and tried to adapt it based on assumptions and perceived implications on what was being written as a foundation for throwing out a more generalised point about feminism. I'm not disagreeing with the latter, it's the link you formed between the two that I took issue with.

I know that you (and probably a lot of others on here) think that what I'm saying is ridiculous and blown out of proportion, but I assure you I'm not just some angry, man-hating feminist, I'm merely trying to not be so blind about massive issues in the world. And I know I keep saying feminism, but as a feminist I feel the feelings I have about these issues can easily be applied to gay, race, etc, issues too ;]

Really belongs in a feminism topic this, but I'll go ahead and throw it in anyway. Comments like that are just so utterly redundant in trying to present an opinion. It throws out a blind sense of self-importance and just serves to try and instill some sort of self-fulfilling logic that your views must be right and people who disagree are simply not aware of the issue. Although tbf my annoyance at logic like that stems from arguments with utter simpletons with hypocritical logic when it comes to things like veganism.

I honestly feel as if you're just missing the point entirely on this one in preaching to the wrong person, I've not disagreed with the majority of your views on feminism, just the link you tried to form to try and make the discussion relevant.

 

[nadroJ]

your views must be right and people who disagree are simply not aware of the issue. Although tbf my annoyance at logic like that stems from arguments with utter simpletons with hypocritical logic when it comes to things like veganism.

I honestly feel as if you're just missing the point entirely on this one in preaching to the wrong person, I've not disagreed with the majority of your views on feminism, just the link you tried to form to try and make the discussion relevant.

Maybe we're both missing each other's point, because we're never going to agree on this haha. But I would just like to say, it's not MY view, technically it is a well researched and presented view of feminist theorists who have made me realise where anti-feminine issues lie in this society (such as in the case of the reaction to Taylor's nipple story). You will see it as being blown out of proportion and me making some crazy links, but when you look at it and compare it to a lot of things these theorists have used to prove and support their theories, the link actually isn't that crazy. Because we have all been raised in a white, patriarchal, male dominated society, EVERY little thing is dominated by this ideal, whether we like it or not, simply because it is these guys who made the rules, essentially, so their ideologies are what shape the world we live in. By identifying this and the problems caused by this is where being labelled feminist, or gay rights activist, or someone fighting for racial equality, whatever else, happens, and a lot of people find this problematic because it is a struggle to constantly fight EVERYTHING because of its one-sided portrayals os the society we live in (as clearly proved by our argument, haha).

Of course I understand that ANY kind of statistics can be twisted and moulded in a way that is perfect in supporting any kind of argument, but when I see stuff like this happening everywhere it becomes less of a conspiracy of man-hating feminists trying to put men down into more a true problem we are facing, and I find it terrifying what we are indoctrinated to believe is 'normal' and OK. Question everything ;]

Also, vegans <///3

 

[Ian]

Things I've learnt from this topic.

1. The "Gay Card" outweighs the "Female Card". Although I'd wager that the "Race Card" trumps all cards?

2. Waiters/waitresses expect tips and give a **** service, or aren't interested, if they know they're unlikely to get a tip.

3. This is the best thing I've EVER seen.

All of these factors have not made me change my mind - I still won't tip. Unless they're able to show me that gif that is.

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

Errrm......pretty sure I just handed you about £3 in change XD So annoying! As I said before, if you're not going to tip, don't tip, and certainly don't lie when I've just personally given you your change! Hahaha XD

Haha, I always put people on the spot who, instead of just saying no to buying something from me, say "I have no money." And then one second later I catch them buying something off another girl . As if I wasn't gonna see it!

 

[Ian]

^ You go, girlfriend.