Formula 1 2009
- Thread starter nealbie
- Start date
ciallkennett
Strata Poster
Patrick said:
People weren't saying that last season with Hamilton
I think the race tomorrow will be overall uneventful. Due to overtaking restrictions, Button is 90% confirmed as winner really. Still...
Mark
Strata Poster
Quite lol...
Was a bit of a lacklustre race when all is said and done tbh. It certainly didn't have the fireworks of previous years. I was actually quite shocked that everyone had made it round lap one, since some don't even get past the first corner.
I can actually kind of see where you are you coming from here. For every win he gets, the less there is a point to the season....
BUT, it is good to see yet another Brit doing so well.
Well, a) He hadn't won 5 out of 6 races in almost seemingly effortless races for a start.
b) Er, yes, people were saying it about Hamilton!
The vital difference I see here is that for the first part of this season the Brawn car has been almost untouchable. The only real threat to them has been Red Bull, and that was rather shortlived at best. No other team has gone any way to really attacking the Brawn. So at the moment they are almost walking the car home every race. With the poor turnout for the vast majority of major players this year, it has certainly cut Brawn a lot of slack.
Now, I'm the first to admit my dislike of the Ferrari team and it's values of sportsmanship, but I will say this. If Ferrari were running a decent car would Brawn be walking away with so many wins. Not on your life would they. The same could be said for Mclaren.
Brawn have got the engineering on the nose this year. Spot on. The other teams, simply have not. It's that simple.
I actually find myself totally uninterested what is going on at the front of the pack of late. I am far more excited by the real fights happening in the middle and back of the pack. Seeing Hamilton, Massa, Raikonnen, Alonso all fighting their way through at every oppurtunity, driving the wheels of f the car. That has been where the excitement is at for me.
Now, the question is, for me at least, where is the real talent here. Button could not have paid for a pole position start last year, let alone 5 out of 6 wins. Last years Honda was abysmal, granted. But then he has not really grabbed my attention in previous years either. Brawn leaves Ferrari (taking years of Engineering experience and know how with him) and starts his own team... Lo and behold, they are trouncing the competition, much like the Ferrari of old. Hamilton & Alonso (and no, I still don't like him very much) have been in awful cars this year, yet they are still progressing through the field. Taking points where they can. What I am getting at is that surely the test of a drivers mettle is whether they can ever make any progress in an awful car. Both Hamilton and Alonso have prooven that they can. So therefore living up to their status as amazing drivers.
You visit any F1 forum which is full of longstanding fans of the sport and you will see a common opinion for instance: That Hamilton should be commended for his driving this year, he has been driving the wheels off the car, this is even planer to see when you compare it to the performance of team mate Kovalinen.
Now this isn't taking anything away from Button either, because he has put in some bloody good laptimes and quali sessions. I just feel that there is no competition there. Which is where I am at a loss for the season.
The new regulations were supposed to really shake things up, give everyone a better chance at the top and so on, but to be really honest, it just hasn't happened. Well, not like the FIA would have liked perhaps. If you take Brawn out of the equation there would probably be a lot more competition and varying winners etc. When the FIA brought in these regulations they weren't banking on a "new" team coming in and hammering it home. When push comes to shove, they have simply replaced one particularly dominating team (Ferrari) with another in Brawn.
PS: If one more person goes on about Hamilton being arrogant, I think I might just have to dig up vids of others arrogance when it comes to Formula one... including Button! Presenters had even commented on how difficult it was to interview him (Button) back then. Personally I feel that it is part of the mental state of a driver to be at least a little cocky. You have to be sure of yourself when you are driving a car at 160 ready to hit a corner at 50. If you aren't sure and damn confident in your skill then you are going to meet a wall, head on... simple.
Was a bit of a lacklustre race when all is said and done tbh. It certainly didn't have the fireworks of previous years. I was actually quite shocked that everyone had made it round lap one, since some don't even get past the first corner.
Patrick said:
I can actually kind of see where you are you coming from here. For every win he gets, the less there is a point to the season....
BUT, it is good to see yet another Brit doing so well.
ciallkennet said:
Well, a) He hadn't won 5 out of 6 races in almost seemingly effortless races for a start.
b) Er, yes, people were saying it about Hamilton!
The vital difference I see here is that for the first part of this season the Brawn car has been almost untouchable. The only real threat to them has been Red Bull, and that was rather shortlived at best. No other team has gone any way to really attacking the Brawn. So at the moment they are almost walking the car home every race. With the poor turnout for the vast majority of major players this year, it has certainly cut Brawn a lot of slack.
Now, I'm the first to admit my dislike of the Ferrari team and it's values of sportsmanship, but I will say this. If Ferrari were running a decent car would Brawn be walking away with so many wins. Not on your life would they. The same could be said for Mclaren.
Brawn have got the engineering on the nose this year. Spot on. The other teams, simply have not. It's that simple.
I actually find myself totally uninterested what is going on at the front of the pack of late. I am far more excited by the real fights happening in the middle and back of the pack. Seeing Hamilton, Massa, Raikonnen, Alonso all fighting their way through at every oppurtunity, driving the wheels of f the car. That has been where the excitement is at for me.
Now, the question is, for me at least, where is the real talent here. Button could not have paid for a pole position start last year, let alone 5 out of 6 wins. Last years Honda was abysmal, granted. But then he has not really grabbed my attention in previous years either. Brawn leaves Ferrari (taking years of Engineering experience and know how with him) and starts his own team... Lo and behold, they are trouncing the competition, much like the Ferrari of old. Hamilton & Alonso (and no, I still don't like him very much) have been in awful cars this year, yet they are still progressing through the field. Taking points where they can. What I am getting at is that surely the test of a drivers mettle is whether they can ever make any progress in an awful car. Both Hamilton and Alonso have prooven that they can. So therefore living up to their status as amazing drivers.
You visit any F1 forum which is full of longstanding fans of the sport and you will see a common opinion for instance: That Hamilton should be commended for his driving this year, he has been driving the wheels off the car, this is even planer to see when you compare it to the performance of team mate Kovalinen.
Now this isn't taking anything away from Button either, because he has put in some bloody good laptimes and quali sessions. I just feel that there is no competition there. Which is where I am at a loss for the season.
The new regulations were supposed to really shake things up, give everyone a better chance at the top and so on, but to be really honest, it just hasn't happened. Well, not like the FIA would have liked perhaps. If you take Brawn out of the equation there would probably be a lot more competition and varying winners etc. When the FIA brought in these regulations they weren't banking on a "new" team coming in and hammering it home. When push comes to shove, they have simply replaced one particularly dominating team (Ferrari) with another in Brawn.
PS: If one more person goes on about Hamilton being arrogant, I think I might just have to dig up vids of others arrogance when it comes to Formula one... including Button! Presenters had even commented on how difficult it was to interview him (Button) back then. Personally I feel that it is part of the mental state of a driver to be at least a little cocky. You have to be sure of yourself when you are driving a car at 160 ready to hit a corner at 50. If you aren't sure and damn confident in your skill then you are going to meet a wall, head on... simple.
Yet another win for Chris Martin...sorry I mean Jenson Button (anyone else noticed they look the same)...almost starting to get a bit boring now, but in an exciting way...work that one out...
I liked the idea of the voluntary budget cap...seems 9 of the ten teams disagree...
I liked the idea of the voluntary budget cap...seems 9 of the ten teams disagree...
robbeal
Hyper Poster
Blaze said:
To be honest, no, I can't see that, at all.
And Ciall, I was moaning about Hamilton winning all the time last year lol. Not that he was winning all the time, but i'm just not keen on the man. He's not really arrogant though, I just find him a bit robotic and false. At least there's a bit of genuine emotion in Button, even if he is a good deal more arrogant that Hamilton, and i'm beginning to get as tired of him winning.
He is driving very well though, i'll hand him that. While Hamilton, Massa et al are proving their class by dragging a bad car up the grid, Button did have an absolutely abysmal car last year, and he is outperforming Barrichello pretty regularly this year too. I think if Brawn were without Button, they'd be finding themselves a bit less dominant. Still dominant, but less so. It does help having a near-genius controlling the team though. Ross Brawn's got some serious brainpower.
On another not, lol @ Toyota, what's going wrong?!
And BMW Rob, both teams were a joke in Monaco. BMW have been a joke all year seeing they really talked themselves up this year.
Button I have not really liked since his 2nd year in F1, he was ****. Even then at BAR when he started getting some good results, he was so big headed and cocky even Brundle said he was near enough impossible to talk to.
Yes I am happy he is getting the results now, right place right time for once. Is he that good though? I dont think so. I recon if Kimi, Lewis, Alonso were in that car they would be so much further ahead. Last year Button was beaten by Rubens, Button was useless and both drivers are lucky they are even in F1 this year.
Button though has raised his game and I am very impressed, but lets see what starts to happen when the pressure is really on.
I also think this year is a 1 off for Brawn, I will be intrested to see how they do next year when they have not had 18 months to build a car.
But as people are saying on a lot of F1 sites, how good was MS really. Seeing Brawn can make a bad team a winning team without MS. Also the gap from Button to Rubens is the same as MS used to get, yes Neal its all been worked out. So was MS that good? or was it mainly down to Brawn? Or is Button that good and has never had the chance to show it?
Also since when does a driver get 2 warning for cutting a corner and not be given a drive through? Massa done it all last year and this year at the same corner. You can bet if that had been a certain other driver they would have been given a drive through.
Also Lewis hits the wall people slag him off, Massa hits the wall nothing said, Vettel hits the wall again nothing and Kovy. Also Button said after the race he told people a "little white lie" and again nothing said. Get my point. In one interview he wants the win and not thinking of the championship, on another channel he is not going to risk the championship for the win. Again though this is what people are slagging Lewis off for doing.
I dont like Lewis as a person, the same with Kimi tbh. But I still think they are the best drivers on the track, when Kimi is on it no one is faster. And with Lewis I have followed him since F3 so its only natural that I support him, this year for me and for most F1 fans he is proving himself even more due to the gap with Kovy which is quiet a bit bigger than last year. Just about anyone can win in the best car, but its the bad cars that make the better drivers stand out. Plus the fact in his 1st year in F1 he gave his team mate and the current world champion a run for his money, the person that so many say is the best driver in F1.
Either way I can see this championship being over with 4 races left at this rate.
Button I have not really liked since his 2nd year in F1, he was ****. Even then at BAR when he started getting some good results, he was so big headed and cocky even Brundle said he was near enough impossible to talk to.
Yes I am happy he is getting the results now, right place right time for once. Is he that good though? I dont think so. I recon if Kimi, Lewis, Alonso were in that car they would be so much further ahead. Last year Button was beaten by Rubens, Button was useless and both drivers are lucky they are even in F1 this year.
Button though has raised his game and I am very impressed, but lets see what starts to happen when the pressure is really on.
I also think this year is a 1 off for Brawn, I will be intrested to see how they do next year when they have not had 18 months to build a car.
But as people are saying on a lot of F1 sites, how good was MS really. Seeing Brawn can make a bad team a winning team without MS. Also the gap from Button to Rubens is the same as MS used to get, yes Neal its all been worked out. So was MS that good? or was it mainly down to Brawn? Or is Button that good and has never had the chance to show it?
Also since when does a driver get 2 warning for cutting a corner and not be given a drive through? Massa done it all last year and this year at the same corner. You can bet if that had been a certain other driver they would have been given a drive through.
Also Lewis hits the wall people slag him off, Massa hits the wall nothing said, Vettel hits the wall again nothing and Kovy. Also Button said after the race he told people a "little white lie" and again nothing said. Get my point. In one interview he wants the win and not thinking of the championship, on another channel he is not going to risk the championship for the win. Again though this is what people are slagging Lewis off for doing.
I dont like Lewis as a person, the same with Kimi tbh. But I still think they are the best drivers on the track, when Kimi is on it no one is faster. And with Lewis I have followed him since F3 so its only natural that I support him, this year for me and for most F1 fans he is proving himself even more due to the gap with Kovy which is quiet a bit bigger than last year. Just about anyone can win in the best car, but its the bad cars that make the better drivers stand out. Plus the fact in his 1st year in F1 he gave his team mate and the current world champion a run for his money, the person that so many say is the best driver in F1.
Either way I can see this championship being over with 4 races left at this rate.
robbeal
Hyper Poster
Southend Marc said:
Yeah, what's all this 'yellow card' business they're on about? Was that just a 'Brundleism', or is that genuinely a system the FIA are working by, where the driver gets a warning for doing it, and penalised the second time. Either way, Massa was pushing it all race.
robbeal
Hyper Poster
Yeah, the rule's that you need to keep one wheel inside the white line that marks the track, but Massa was proper pushing it on that one chicane down at the Swimming Pool all race. I haven't looked to see whether he was just about adhering to that rule or not, but he was just flinging the car across the kerb rather than treating it as a corner, lol.
nealbie
CF Legend
Not true! They could only at maximum be 4 points further up than he is at the moment, so think before you say such things :lol:southend_narc said:
And Massa wasn't punished because "cutting" the chicane and bouncing about actually lost him time and he didn't overtake anyone doing it, so he wasn't breaking any rules
A
Anonymous
Guest
This season has been nuts!
07 and 08 were the craziest 2 seasons I've seen yet, but nothing compares to this!
Never thought Button would have won 5 out of 6 races with Rubino in 2nd and Hami and Kimi so far down...
07 and 08 were the craziest 2 seasons I've seen yet, but nothing compares to this!
Never thought Button would have won 5 out of 6 races with Rubino in 2nd and Hami and Kimi so far down...
robbeal
Hyper Poster
Is it just me that thinks the races actually haven't been that great this season? Yeah, its all a bit topsy-turvy, which makes it interesting in itself, but quite a few of the races have been relatively processional. The two years prior to this have been much more interesting in terms of races. The most interesting stuff's coming from the midfield.