Do you believe in ghosts?

[kimahri]

I like aliens more than ghosts.

Pew Pew Pew.

 

[Ormerod]

Well if millions of people suddenly started seeing their turds walking, many of them had pictures of it, some even had video and/or sound recordings, then I'd start to believe something was up. I'm not stupid enough to believe something after just one person says it's so.

Well if walking turd stories were passed on due to word of mouth, and society accepted that there is slight possibility turds can walk, in no time people will start believing that somewhere in their darkened bedroom, the dark shadowy thing in the corner IS a walking turd, and then they will tell all their friends about it, which influences people to believe this could be true.

 

[Ian]

I saw a ghost in the woods near where I live when I was walking home at 1am very pissed and stoned!

It was real and everything.

 

[nadroJ]

I think I vaguely remember you telling us this on the forums...

 

[Snoo]

furie.. I love you.

 

[Ian]

^^ That's right, I did. Over a year ago now!

http://coasterforce.com/forums/viewtopi ... 67&start=0

Not seen a ghost since.

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

If you didn't believe in ghosts, would the evidence compel you to believe in ghosts?

Well, everyone starts off at a neutral state at one point in their lives, so the "evidence" either compels you to believe in them, or isn't convincing enough to make you a believer.

You can pull out your numbers all you want.. I already told you I don't believe that every single person who has claimed to have a paranormal event take place in their presence, but I think that the chances that at least even twenty of those thousands of cases are legit.. Not everyone can be a liar, and not every single thing can be explained. You can come up with an excuse or explanation to say it's NOT real, but as I said ten million times, those explanations may be incorrect and it may actually be a ghost, but of course you wouldn't believe or understand that because you don't think they exist.

Same with your stupid alien thing. I believe in them but, once again, go ahead and pull out your numbers. The numbers may seem logical, but it's still not 100% evidence that they exist, yet you still believe in them. I never said the evidence that ghosts exists is 100% evidence, but it's just a matter of personal choice. I choose to believe in them, I think they exist, I think we have to go SOMEWHERE after we die besides just a coffin or a crematorium.. And if I think that place is a ghost, instead of maybe Heaven or something, then who cares?

 

[Ormerod]

I already told you I don't believe that every single person who has claimed to have a paranormal event take place in their presence, but I think that the chances that at least even twenty of those thousands of cases are legit.. Not everyone can be a liar

Making a mistake isn't lying, after all humans are good at making mistakes.

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

^ That's pretty much what I meant, dude.

 

[Ormerod]

I emphasise that though, as though it's human for every single one of them cases to be a simple mistake.

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

^ I really doubt that out of every single documented case of paranormal activity, every single one was a mistake.

 

[Ormerod]

Well there are few & far between documentated cases, and I'd go as far as saying they were planned {like the ones on t.v} or mistakes.

 

[Stone Cold]

You can pull out your numbers all you want.. I already told you I don't believe that every single person who has claimed to have a paranormal event take place in their presence, but I think that the chances that at least even twenty of those thousands of cases are legit.. Not everyone can be a liar, and not every single thing can be explained.

Agreed, not everything can be explained. But surely "You saw a ghost" is just that, an explanation. OK, it's a pretty bizarre explanation, and one that flies in the face of known science. But it's still an explanation, a way of rationalising an otherwise unknown quantity.

Really though, until you can "explain" ghosts, you can't pass off every strange lens flare, sudden chill or unexpected bang as a "ghost" after all, if you can use "ghosts" to explain anything, you've explained nothing.

The numbers may seem logical, but it's still not 100% evidence that they exist, yet you still believe in them. I never said the evidence that ghosts exists is 100% evidence, but it's just a matter of personal choice. I choose to believe in them, I think they exist,

It is a matter of personal choice, just in the same way choosing to knowingly stick your arm in a woodchipper is a matter of personal choice.

Seeing as you believe, show the evidence that made you believe, or, if it was personal experience, share that with us, so we can make our own judgements. For that matter show us a single documented case of paranormal activity which doesn't have a rational explanation. Otherwise, we're going to assume that your personal choice was poorly informed.

I think we have to go SOMEWHERE after we die besides just a coffin or a crematorium.. And if I think that place is a ghost, instead of maybe Heaven or something, then who cares?

Why? Why do we have to go somewhere, it seems logical to me that we don't. Why wouldn't people come back, most people would love to have more time with their grandchildren, or to visit their favourite places again. If people did "carry on" after death in some fashion, then I think we'd know that this happened.

 

[Snoo]

Same with your stupid alien thing. I believe in them but, once again, go ahead and pull out your numbers. The numbers may seem logical, but it's still not 100% evidence that they exist, yet you still believe in them.

You want evidence? Look in the mirror. Proof life can exist in this universe.. albeit some life less intelligent then others.

Unless you can't read what furie said.. just read it 6 times more. It is probably the best mathematical explanation I've ever seen in my life for the possibility of life outside of our blue globe.

 

[Ormerod]

The only evidence I've seen of ghosts is fake crap produced by financially desperate channels.

And as for life on other planets, well as rightly pointed out, we are a planet & there's a hell of a lot of life existing within Earth, so surely there is more life on different planets?.

 

[LiveForTheLaunch]

^ And I believe that surely there has to be somewhere we go after we die.

I believe in aliens too, but the argument that "there has to be life on other planets because statistics make it logical" is still not 100% evidence on Furie's part, so I don't get why he's saying it's wrong to believe in ghosts when he's doing the same thing with aliens..

 

[RCF]

I agree.

 

[Snoo]

^ And I believe that surely there has to be somewhere we go after we die.

I believe in aliens too, but the argument that "there has to be life on other planets because statistics make it logical" is still not 100% evidence on Furie's part, so I don't get why he's saying it's wrong to believe in ghosts when he's doing the same thing with aliens..

Ok Taylor.. I'll try to explain this..


There is NO evidence of ghosts true existence. Agreed? You can't walk down the street and find a ghost just randomly chilling drinking a Coke and having some Dippin Dots.

BUT, there is evidence of life in the universe.. planet Earth.


Hence, while the possibility of ghosts around has absolutely no evidence, we have proof life exists in the universe.. and the possibility life exists somewhere else has much higher probability BECAUSE life DOES exist.


Think of life in the universe and ghosts existing as the SAME thing.

Now, if ONE ghost appeared and gave proof of its existence (that proof equals life on Earth), there IS a chance that it does exist somewhere else BECAUSE of that proof.

There is NO proof that ghosts exist, hence the probability ghosts could exist still is at 0% (as furie explained), meanwhile.. we are here.. which means there IS a possibility life can be somewhere else (even if the chance of us coming to be is 0.00000001%.. that tiny chance could mean millions of planet Earths existing in the universe).

Get it?

 

[furie]

LOL! I like this game

I shall do it in diagrams.

This image is 100 pixels by 100 pixels. It represents the whole of the Earth.
Out of the 10,000 pixels on the image, the proof of ghosts are shown by dots.
If you can see any dots, believe me, they're smudges on your screen. However, if you like, you can believe they're evidence of ghosts. Wipe the screen though and you'll see

This 100 x 100 image represents the whole universe that we have studied.
Out of the 10,00 pixels on the image, proof of life is shown by dots.
There's one.

Now, the difference between the two is that the first image represents everything, the second image represents a million billionth of the universe. The dot is a tiny speck in a tiny speck.

I don't believe in aliens, I just believe that it's mathematically improbable there aren't aliens.
I don't believe in ghosts, I just believe that it's mathematically improbable there are ghosts.

This is very subtle and something that it may be difficult to understand, it does work though.

Imagine tossing a coin 1000 times. We know each toss has a 50/50 chance of being heads. Each subsequent toss reduces the chance of it being a head again.
Ghosts are like saying that in those 1000 tosses, you will get heads every single time. It's not impossible, just so unlikely that it's not worth considering.
Aliens are like saying that out of those 1000 tosses, you'll get 20 heads in a row. Again, it's unlikely, but, with the universe being so huge, we get a million sets of 1000 tosses. Out of those million sets of 1000 tosses, we will see several instances of 20 heads coming up in a row.

Neither is definite (you are right on that front Taylor) - it's just that it is so unlikely to happen, it's not worth considering as a chance. Would you bet a 200 dollars on 1000 heads coming up in a row - even if the payout was a million? You'd say "no chance", which is what we have to do with ghosts.

I've actually already said this - believe what you like, but do so with a good deal of scepticism. Approach these things with level head and try to understand the scales you're working within. If you're looking for a 1 in 1 billion piece of proof to back up your theory, think hard about size of the issue - you're tossing that coin thousands of times waiting for heads^1000

 

[Ormerod]

So basically, what is being mentioned here is that aliens and ghosts are totally different.

If you believe in aliens, you basically believe in life on other planets, and we 100% know that life exists in the Universe, we are our own proof after all.

If you believe in ghosts however, you basically believe in afterlife. Afterlife has no strong proof of existance, and if there is such strong proof I'd love to see it.