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Walibi Holland | Untamed | RMC Robin Hood Conversion

Kw6sTheater

Member
Also, ask 90% of people who have ridden it and they would agree it doesn't feel like a complete ride. There is too much speed taken into the mcbr that one additional element could have changed, and that would also improve the dispatch issue.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Looking back on the footage released from Twisted Colossus' summer 2014 announcement, in place of the mid-course was a quick and snappy overbank into the second lift hill - I think that would have fixed the "doesn't feel like a complete ride" issue, but on another hand it would maybe be a bit of a safety hazard in case of an evacuation.

For reference, here's the animation shown at the announcement;
, fast forward to 1:20.

And here's the POV after Twisted Colossus opened (Go CoasterFORCE!!);
, fast forward to 1:52.
 

CrashCoaster

Well-Known Member
Another from the park's FB story:-

And from Scott Bravenboer on Facebook:-


With this, more than 50% of the ride's track is in place!
 
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Jcoasters

Member
Looking back on the footage released from Twisted Colossus' summer 2014 announcement, in place of the mid-course was a quick and snappy overbank into the second lift hill - I think that would have fixed the "doesn't feel like a complete ride" issue, but on another hand it would maybe be a bit of a safety hazard in case of an evacuation.

For reference, here's the animation shown at the announcement;
, fast forward to 1:20.

And here's the POV after Twisted Colossus opened (Go CoasterFORCE!!);
, fast forward to 1:52.

There's not much difference... Both ways it goes into an outer banked airtime hill, dueling with the green train, and then a curve. I guess they realized that they needed the MCBR for safety. And, how does that affect whether or not the ride feels complete or not? That's halfway through the ride, not the ending. You're grasping at straws.


I find Twisted Colossus to be a particularly interesting ride as so many people praise it highly, despite its pretty significant flaws (I guess you could argue similar about MF, but that's sorta inevitable once there evolves a cult over a coaster). Significant as in, very unusual for such a well-deceived ride. Just shows how much potential was thrown out of the window by scrapping half of the legacy coaster.

Scrapping half the legacy coaster? You do realize that the original Colossus only had one lift hill per run, right? The new one has two lift hills per run. How is it so well-deceived, because it doesn't duel every time? Also, what are it's significant flaws? You haven't named any. What do you expect in a coaster? What's a perfect coaster to you? For example, I think Flash at Lewa Adventure looks cool, although I will tell you, I like a big airtime hill first typically. However, one of the main "gimmicks" of Flash was to have the world's biggest vertical loop, so they opted for that first instead, which makes perfect sense and looks awesome! On DC Rivals Hyper Coaster, they opted for a big airtime hill before the non-inverting loop, as they were going for that layout. Maybe it would of been cool to have the non-inverting loop first. I mean, what do you expect in a coaster? Everything? Do you expect every goaster to be a world record giga coaster with a 200 foot plus loop, 30 airtime moments, and every element in RCDB? We're working in the real world here, not No Limits. A world with budget and physics constraints. What would you of done layout wise with twisted Colossus, I'm curious? There's tons of amazing layout potentials, but Schilke opted for this one and I think it's great!


You literally mentioned the gimmick earlier of the stall while dueling. A gimmick isn't necessarily a bad thing, but a gimmick is a gimmick. If the effect doesn't work as well without the other train next to it. It is a gimmick.

Also, ask 90% of people who have ridden it and they would agree it doesn't feel like a complete ride. There is too much speed taken into the mcbr that one additional element could have changed, and that would also improve the dispatch issue.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

First of all, my quote was "Don't let your lack of experience dismiss the awesomeness that is a dueling stall over an ejector hill." I don't know about 90% of people say it feels incomplete. Couldn't the same be said for tons of other rides? Such as: Lightning Rod, TTD, Xcelerator, Full Throttle, Maxx Force (yet unknown), Goliath SFMM, Zaturn (now closed), and I'm sure many more, that's just off the top of my head.

Again, too much speed into the MCBR? What would you have changed, and how would it have improved the dispatch issue? Are you a roller coaster designer? You do realize that the lift speeds will adjust so that the trains meet up at the top of the lift to duel, right? The computer ensures it's best to duel, which is why it will adjust the lift speeds, it's never going to be exactly the same anyhow due to weather, weight, etc. You would need the adjusting lift speeds MCBR or not.

If the effect doesn't work as well on itself, then it doesn't work as well by itself. That doesn't mean it's a gimmick. I think you're just mad at the loading issues. See my next response on gimmick.


Duelling is literally a way to attract attention.

The Dictionary said:
gimmick
/ˈɡɪmɪk/
noun
  1. a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or trade.

The quality doesn't matter. If it's designed to attract attention first and foremost, it's a gimmick.


The entire point of Twisted Colossus is to duel. That's what separates it from so many other coasters and RMC's.

So, then if we're using the exact dictionary definition of gimmick you provided, the following are all gimmicks:

• Any sort of record being broken
• A coaster going upside-down. After all, it can't mechanically fall off the track, and at that point the upstop wheels would be right-side-up, so that's alla gimmick
• Top Thrill Dragster, all that does is go up and down, and go really fast. How pointless. Why not just make it the height of Kanonen? Why make it so tall and fast just to attract visitors, after all, height and speed in a coaster don't count, just the forces you experience! (sarcasm. height and speed do matter in a coaster, that's kind of the whole point of large coaster lol, otherwise why not just make everything Maverick size?)
• Standup coasters. How gimmicky! What's the point! Oh gee, a different ride experience that's designed to draw attention so the park will get guests? That's gimmicky, just like dueling coasters, after all, dueling coasters don't change the ride experience one bit! (sarcasm)

• I could go on and on.

Like, half of all coasters are based on "gimmicks" by that definition. Let's just forget about records, height, and speed. Let's just make everything Maverick size and never create original elements again. Let's no have coaster race or duel, all of these are gimmicks and pointless. Also, let's just forget about Park's having new, original, earth shattering coasters such as Twisted Colossus that also can be marketed well because of their "gimmicks."

Edit: Also, how is dueling literally only a way to attract attention? Have you ever ridden a dueling coaster? You do realize it changes the ride experience, right?

The dueling aspect is completely a gimmick. When they advertise that the ride has dueling elements and then they don't operate the ride properly, causing the ride to not duel, it's a gimmick.

We absolutely can criticize Six Flags inability to hit their dispatch cycle. Nominal operation of the ride requires the staff to hit their interval and they don't because they're usually just as lazy as the guests. I've witnessed Behemoth's crew dispatching trains when the previous one isn't even at the hammerhead turnaround yet, and I've heard Fury operates in a similar manner. All it takes is the crew to direct people to move quickly and they usually do...this is something that Six Flags operators don't do.

Look, I agree, Six Flags has terrible operations. However, a lot of it is also the guests. They're so slow and they have no idea. Two minutes is more than enough time to load, and during ERT it runs dueling almost every time. You know why? Coaster enthusiasts load fast, they're not the average slow person that has to put the stuff in the side bins, deal with the kid that chickens out last second, deal with their sunglasses, keep their phone put away, etc. I hear Europeans load faster too, the ride ops can only go as fast as the guests.

I mean, they're also dealing with budget. They could of made the ride longer and designed it with more time to load for a duel, but they had constraints, and I think they did a pretty good job. If everyone in line were to just hurry up, it would work perfectly. There's only so much you can do with a ride that has two lift hills and duels within that budget, and unfortunately, it leads to not having consistent duels. Now, something like Joris En De Draak (spelling?) is different, because there is only one lift hill per run, and the stations start right next to each other, so it's very easy to ensure that it duels every time.



I honestly think ya'll are just jealous of the So Cal weather and coaster collection. Sometimes I look at Europe, or the East Coast of the United States, and go, man! So many good parks within such a short distance of each other! Outside of Northern and Southern California, the next major roller coaster isn't all the way until Utah which is like 700 miles, or 1,125 km from Los Angeles. That's like a 10 hour drive without stopping for gas or to rest. And forget about Oregon with their Euro Fighter and Las Vegas where the only coaster worth riding is the El Loco. I guess there's a couple halfway decent woodies in the Pacific Northwest and then you have Cliff's in Arizona with that once CCI that's really awesome.


Back to Untamed

The double up looks awesome! Although sometimes I wish Schilke would do more larger, sustained air hills. I guess he's afraid of sustained airtime and elements that aren't "dynamic" enough, although it could also be to fit within standards for sustained positive vertical G force times. I guess maybe he figures that the elements need to all be super "dynamic" so everything is constantly changing as the smartphone generation doesn't have the patience to enjoy sustained forces such as a large airtime hill or a helix, which I disagree with by the way. I don't think the average person's short term memory is ruined that much, although we are worse than goldfish now.
 
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CrashCoaster

Well-Known Member
The double up looks awesome! Although sometimes I wish Schilke would do more larger, sustained air hills. I guess he's afraid of sustained airtime and elements that aren't "dynamic" enough, although it could also be to fit within standards for sustained positive vertical G force times. I guess maybe he figures that the elements need to all be super "dynamic" so everything is constantly changing as the smartphone generation doesn't have the patience to enjoy sustained forces such as a large airtime hill or a helix, which I disagree with by the way. I don't think the average person's short term memory is ruined that much, although we are worse than goldfish now.
I think there may be a giant airtime hill straight after the double inversion, although time will tell.
 

Jcoasters

Member


That whole series of elements look pretty good, tbh. The big left banking followed by the flip to the right, then down into the double up, seems to flow well compared to some other "jerky" recent coasters.

I agree, the whole coaster looks great! If you read my post, the first sentence was "The double up looks awesome!" And, I care, by the way, which is why I wrote a whole paragraph about it. I'm not the only one by the way lol.
 

MLDesigns

Member
Mmm I love seeing "New Member" dropping paragraphs and continuing to derail a thread. "I honestly think ya'll are just jealous of SoCal" piss off with that. Not a soul is jealous of you for having the only 3 good rides in that half of the country. Get back to Untamed.

So, Untamed. Looking yummy. Very attractive.
 

Jcoasters

Member
Mmm I love seeing "New Member" dropping paragraphs and continuing to derail a thread. "I honestly think ya'll are just jealous of SoCal" piss off with that. Not a soul is jealous of you for having the only 3 good rides in that half of the country. Get back to Untamed.

So, Untamed. Looking yummy. Very attractive.

• I've been registered to the forum since 2010
• I'd be hard pressed to meet a coaster enthusiast who thinks southern california only has three good rides
• The fact that you have to mention it makes you seem jealous. After all, if you're not a fan of the southern California weather, you're foolish or have weird tastes in weather
• I live in Oregon
 

Pear

Active Member
There's not much difference... Both ways it goes into an outer banked airtime hill, dueling with the green train, and then a curve. I guess they realized that they needed the MCBR for safety. And, how does that affect whether or not the ride feels complete or not? That's halfway through the ride, not the ending. You're grasping at straws.




Scrapping half the legacy coaster? You do realize that the original Colossus only had one lift hill per run, right? The new one has two lift hills per run. How is it so well-deceived, because it doesn't duel every time? Also, what are it's significant flaws? You haven't named any. What do you expect in a coaster? What's a perfect coaster to you? For example, I think Flash at Lewa Adventure looks cool, although I will tell you, I like a big airtime hill first typically. However, one of the main "gimmicks" of Flash was to have the world's biggest vertical loop, so they opted for that first instead, which makes perfect sense and looks awesome! On DC Rivals Hyper Coaster, they opted for a big airtime hill before the non-inverting loop, as they were going for that layout. Maybe it would of been cool to have the non-inverting loop first. I mean, what do you expect in a coaster? Everything? Do you expect every goaster to be a world record giga coaster with a 200 foot plus loop, 30 airtime moments, and every element in RCDB? We're working in the real world here, not No Limits. A world with budget and physics constraints. What would you of done layout wise with twisted Colossus, I'm curious? There's tons of amazing layout potentials, but Schilke opted for this one and I think it's great!




First of all, my quote was "Don't let your lack of experience dismiss the awesomeness that is a dueling stall over an ejector hill." I don't know about 90% of people say it feels incomplete. Couldn't the same be said for tons of other rides? Such as: Lightning Rod, TTD, Xcelerator, Full Throttle, Maxx Force (yet unknown), Goliath SFMM, Zaturn (now closed), and I'm sure many more, that's just off the top of my head.

Again, too much speed into the MCBR? What would you have changed, and how would it have improved the dispatch issue? Are you a roller coaster designer? You do realize that the lift speeds will adjust so that the trains meet up at the top of the lift to duel, right? The computer ensures it's best to duel, which is why it will adjust the lift speeds, it's never going to be exactly the same anyhow due to weather, weight, etc. You would need the adjusting lift speeds MCBR or not.

If the effect doesn't work as well on itself, then it doesn't work as well by itself. That doesn't mean it's a gimmick. I think you're just mad at the loading issues. See my next response on gimmick.





The entire point of Twisted Colossus is to duel. That's what separates it from so many other coasters and RMC's.

So, then if we're using the exact dictionary definition of gimmick you provided, the following are all gimmicks:

• Any sort of record being broken
• A coaster going upside-down. After all, it can't mechanically fall off the track, and at that point the upstop wheels would be right-side-up, so that's alla gimmick
• Top Thrill Dragster, all that does is go up and down, and go really fast. How pointless. Why not just make it the height of Kanonen? Why make it so tall and fast just to attract visitors, after all, height and speed in a coaster don't count, just the forces you experience! (sarcasm. height and speed do matter in a coaster, that's kind of the whole point of large coaster lol, otherwise why not just make everything Maverick size?)
• Standup coasters. How gimmicky! What's the point! Oh gee, a different ride experience that's designed to draw attention so the park will get guests? That's gimmicky, just like dueling coasters, after all, dueling coasters don't change the ride experience one bit! (sarcasm)

• I could go on and on.

Like, half of all coasters are based on "gimmicks" by that definition. Let's just forget about records, height, and speed. Let's just make everything Maverick size and never create original elements again. Let's no have coaster race or duel, all of these are gimmicks and pointless. Also, let's just forget about Park's having new, original, earth shattering coasters such as Twisted Colossus that also can be marketed well because of their "gimmicks."

Edit: Also, how is dueling literally only a way to attract attention? Have you ever ridden a dueling coaster? You do realize it changes the ride experience, right?



Look, I agree, Six Flags has terrible operations. However, a lot of it is also the guests. They're so slow and they have no idea. Two minutes is more than enough time to load, and during ERT it runs dueling almost every time. You know why? Coaster enthusiasts load fast, they're not the average slow person that has to put the stuff in the side bins, deal with the kid that chickens out last second, deal with their sunglasses, keep their phone put away, etc. I hear Europeans load faster too, the ride ops can only go as fast as the guests.

I mean, they're also dealing with budget. They could of made the ride longer and designed it with more time to load for a duel, but they had constraints, and I think they did a pretty good job. If everyone in line were to just hurry up, it would work perfectly. There's only so much you can do with a ride that has two lift hills and duels within that budget, and unfortunately, it leads to not having consistent duels. Now, something like Joris En De Draak (spelling?) is different, because there is only one lift hill per run, and the stations start right next to each other, so it's very easy to ensure that it duels every time.



I honestly think ya'll are just jealous of the So Cal weather and coaster collection. Sometimes I look at Europe, or the East Coast of the United States, and go, man! So many good parks within such a short distance of each other! Outside of Northern and Southern California, the next major roller coaster isn't all the way until Utah which is like 700 miles, or 1,125 km from Los Angeles. That's like a 10 hour drive without stopping for gas or to rest. And forget about Oregon with their Euro Fighter and Las Vegas where the only coaster worth riding is the El Loco. I guess there's a couple halfway decent woodies in the Pacific Northwest and then you have Cliff's in Arizona with that once CCI that's really awesome.


Back to Untamed

The double up looks awesome! Although sometimes I wish Schilke would do more larger, sustained air hills. I guess he's afraid of sustained airtime and elements that aren't "dynamic" enough, although it could also be to fit within standards for sustained positive vertical G force times. I guess maybe he figures that the elements need to all be super "dynamic" so everything is constantly changing as the smartphone generation doesn't have the patience to enjoy sustained forces such as a large airtime hill or a helix, which I disagree with by the way. I don't think the average person's short term memory is ruined that much, although we are worse than goldfish now.

 

Yoris Kerkhoff

New Member
Guys, can we please get back to untamed? If you want to continue this ''biggest d**k contest" that's fine by me but please do so in private messages or something cause I think most people are here to follow this amazing coaster and we just kinda glossed over an AWESOME double up! <3
 

Jcoasters

Member
I agree to going back to Untamed haha, although I do think it's a relevant discussion. And, yeah it's a lot of detail, but I didn't take the time to summarize my self. Really, I think my response to JoshC with the bullet points is the best to read; where I explain why it's not a gimmick.
 

Aaron Smith

Member
Guys, can we please get back to untamed? If you want to continue this ''biggest d**k contest" that's fine by me but please do so in private messages or something cause I think most people are here to follow this amazing coaster and we just kinda glossed over an AWESOME double up! <3
Send any dick pics my way and I'll be the judge!

This ride is looking better and better. I'm hoping to make it to Efteling within the next few years and I'll have to add this park to my trip as well.
 

Hutch

Well-Known Member
Looks like that could be some kind of large overbank of sorts?

I'm really liking the look of this layout so far. The variety of those elements in the middle portion should be pretty interesting.
 

Yoris Kerkhoff

New Member
Alan Schilke doesn't like those and the worlds first element has already been revealed so i'd say the chances of it being a vertical loop are close to zero...
 
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