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Kings Island | Banshee | B&M Invert

Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

madhjsp said:
I know that it's a silly hypothetical in the first place, but to those of you who said you'd love a hyper invert... why on earth would that be fun? In fact, I can't imagine a more effective way to ruin a good hyper layout than to make it an inverted coaster. No visibility past the front row, and OTSRs that restrict all the upper-body freedom that defines that ride style & kill anything resembling proper levels of airtime.
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Pyrenees has a fantastic air hill mid-layout. The B&M OTSR doesn't bother me one bit.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Same with Patriot at WOF. Quite enjoyable airtime hill tbh.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Talon has a pop as well, not to mention quite a hefty chunk on Katun's first drop.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

I agree. Kings Island could really sell a Invert. A wing coaster will probably be CF's first choice though. Although, a dive coaster would be even better. (If the BG contract is up?)
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Even though an invert seems most applicable for King's Island, I feel like a good wooden hybrid with a steep drop, and an inversion or two would be perfect to compete with the current trend in coasters.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Taxi said:
I agree. Kings Island could really sell a Invert. A wing coaster will probably be CF's first choice though. Although, a dive coaster would be even better. (If the BG contract is up?)
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A Wing Coaster the year after Cedar Fair's flagship park constructs one would be a tough sell on the Ohio market.

madhjsp said:
I know that it's a silly hypothetical in the first place, but to those of you who said you'd love a hyper invert... why on earth would that be fun? In fact, I can't imagine a more effective way to ruin a good hyper layout than to make it an inverted coaster. No visibility past the front row, and OTSRs that restrict all the upper-body freedom that defines that ride style & kill anything resembling proper levels of airtime.
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From the sounds of it, you are seemingly insinuating a Diamondback/Behemoth design that is inverted. That would be an inefficient design: the Hyper coaster is focused on airtime hills and speed. Inverted coasters are driven by inversions.

Alpengeist is 195 ft. So imagine a similar layout, with a 5 ft. taller lift hill.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

How, in all things coasters, would a second wing coaster at the complete opposite side of the state be a hard sell? The only people to whine about it would be us, and us alone.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Intricks said:
How, in all things coasters, would a second wing coaster at the complete opposite side of the state be a hard sell? The only people to whine about it would be us, and us alone.
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The GP find a way, like they always do, to point out similarities and do what's closer.

That said, that could spell good things, as people who live closer to Mason wouldn't have to go to CP to get the experience, should the Wing Coaster concept be the selling point.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Intricks said:
How, in all things coasters, would a second wing coaster at the complete opposite side of the state be a hard sell? The only people to whine about it would be us, and us alone.
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Cedar Point's key markets are Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Detroit while Kings Island focuses on Indianapolis, Kentucky/West Virginia, and Cincinnati - yes. However, both still draw from Columbus/middle Ohio. Having the same new addition at either park is where the conflict of interest lies.

Building an inverted coaster is a sure hit, and a smart move.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

People will notice, but do you honestly think they will make a scene of "KI copied CP rabble rabble rabble!"?

Cedar Point fanatics will, but again, you are relying on a minute group of a minute group.

Seriously, after listening to people believe Serial Thriller and Superman were from the same manufacturer, just like how Double Loop and Dominator were, I have tremondous doubts over anyone calling foul play. The only thing that will stop the Middle Ohioans from chosing either park will be cost.

You are putting too much faith into a group of people that couldnt be arsed to whine about an exact clone of one ride, just taller, being put into the same park. It will be a new ride, and it will pull in the crowd even if it were a direct clone of Gatekeeper next year. People may notice, but they wont care.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Go to Texas, there are three Batman clones within a days trip of each other. Two of those are in the same exact town!
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

bmac said:
Go to Texas, there are three Batman clones within a days trip of each other. Two of those are in the same exact town!
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This. It takes 5 minutes (OK, 10) to drive from SWT to 6FFT, and Goliath was still very popular when I visited.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Intricks said:
People will notice, but do you honestly think they will make a scene of "KI copied CP rabble rabble rabble!"?

Cedar Point fanatics will, but again, you are relying on a minute group of a minute group.

Seriously, after listening to people believe Serial Thriller and Superman were from the same manufacturer, just like how Double Loop and Dominator were, I have tremondous doubts over anyone calling foul play. The only thing that will stop the Middle Ohioans from chosing either park will be cost.

You are putting too much faith into a group of people that couldnt be arsed to whine about an exact clone of one ride, just taller, being put into the same park. It will be a new ride, and it will pull in the crowd even if it were a direct clone of Gatekeeper next year. People may notice, but they wont care.
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There is no doubt that a Wing Coaster would be a hit. But there also is no doubt that given a choice between Cedar Point or Kings Island - especially if both have just received a wing coaster - every Ohioan will choose CP.

It would just be an uphill battle for Kings Island's Marketing Department to try to convince residents that they should visit Kings Island's Wing Coaster, which would most likely not be as tall nor fast as CP's which opened the previous year.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Having been born and raised in the Ohio market, with competitions from several large parks in the region, Cedar Point wins hands down on all fronts when it comes to marketing and history. Only when I moved to the southern part of the state did I notice more people having visited KI then CP.. even then.. CP was still the top of everyone list.

Marketing head to head with not only the premier park in the region, but one of the top in the nation (when it comes to being known and such.. not saying its the best you sluts), you will lose 9 times outta 10.. especially if that member of the GP has been to CP first.

This is part of the reason why Geauga Lake was such an enormous fail for Six Flags. You can't market against Cedar Point, especially in the state which it is in.. so don't try.

Instead, marketing something unique, something that can draw people in EVEN if they've been to CP, that is a seller. Not only is that common sense, that is something I was taught while earning a degree on the subject.

End of the day, KI needs something unique IMO. Will they do that? Who knows. They did go that way with Diamondback, but this next one needs to be big, unique, and a crowd sensation. As much as somethings make sense from the eyes of an enthusiast, looking at the market they are in and what they need as a park, a Wing Rider doesn't make sense.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Which would be what at this point? The Point offers a nice sized variety of the larger model coasters, with the only thing lacking is the medium/small sized.

Kings Island, if they dont chose to go with a large type model ride, have a LOT to chose from, but why waste the space? The only thing that will make them chose small is they install two or more for the SoB spot, which would add in a whole new area for them to use.

Now, with your train of thought Snoo, how do you feel about two RMC Hybrid coasters in one state, within the same company nonetheless. The only difference between the two (beyond layout) is the Zero-G. The only main difference between Iron Rattler and New Texas Giant is that Zero-G. The ride will effectively ride the same as NTG. So why arent we throwing a fit over that?

They each offer a different ride sensation and differ enough from one another that nobody has given a ****.

Same situation as we have here, albeit there is a 2/3 year difference in difference?

Honestly, if Kings Island builds something akin to that sexy green mass of Parrot Trained Wing Coaster in China, their shouldnt be any issue as the ride will offer a substantially different enough ride for the public to not care.

Coming from an Ohioan as well, Six Flags effectively bombed because they put everything in at once and didnt offer anything new until X-Flight popped in. They tried to market it as competition for Point, but didnt do so wisely.

Plus, one of the reasons why people chose CP over Ki is the fact that CP has the visibly big rides, and KI only has Diamondback, Vortex and Flight Deck as their visibly big rides.

Which would you chose based off that if you were a non-enthusiast?
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

^ Yeah, Six Flags was trying to pit X-Flight against Millennium Force. Guess who won that round? ;)

An RMC would be fantastic, but would indicate a very large shift in the way Cedar Fair goes at wooden coasters.

Cedar Fair has historically only gone with Dinn Corp. and successor GCI for their wooden coasters. While they could have gone with GG or Intamin Pre-fab, there was a definitive choice to stick with the old school wooden coaster design.

And this is for good reason. When you think about Intamin pre-fab and RMC, the first thing that comes to mind is, "it can operate like a steel coaster." Inversions, 90 degree turns, extremely smooth. There is no denying that these are some of the greatest wooden coasters in the world. But it begs the question... why build something that is like a steel coaster when you could build a steel coaster?

Steel coasters require far less upkeep/maintenance than a wooden coaster, and better guarantee smoothness over the life of the coaster.

Cedar Fair has been sure to distinctively keep the wooden coaster experience and steel coaster experience separate. However, with changes in management of Kinzel and Falfas, in combo with the amazing design of RMC, the option is always on the table.

Considering RMC's M.O. has been scrapping/improving older wooden coaster to raging hulk monsters (Iron Rattler, New Texas Giant, etc.), they would fit in just fine on top of the rubble of Son of Beast.
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

See, I dont think they were tryi g to pit X-Flight against Millie, just that they shoved in 5 rides in 1 off season and were losing some crowd due to bad plan management so were ultimately forced to add in another attraction or face losing.

Idk, I went to Six Flags several times that year ;)
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

Geauga Lake draws from the same Cleveland market as Cedar Point, so any attempt by Six Flags always ran into competition from CP.

You're right, the 5 coasters-over-night approach in between 2000 and 2001 did not work. Six Flags was running under the "if you build it, they will come" theory, which not only included the roller coasters by wildlife park and water park. Unfortunately, Cedar Point was simultaneously building Millennium Force, Wicked Twister, and TTD. Apparently there is higher demand for the world's tallest and fastest roller coasters than Villain. :razz:

This is in part why Wildwater Kingdom is what remained - demand for water parks is smaller than demand for roller coasters, meaning guests are less likely to travel to Cedar Point only for Soak City, and will visit the closer Wildwater Kingdom instead. Cedar Fair plays this same card with their Soak City chains across California.

I'm so glad I get to practice economic theory as we pass the time. :lol:
 
Re: Kings Island 2014 Roller Coaster

IMO I think that a new roller coaster is going to be added. But with the parks note about "future expansion" I think that a roller coaster will not be the only ride in the new expansion. :idea: I think i expect a B&M giga because CW got Behemoth in 08 while we got Diamondback in 09. On a side note i never got to ride SoB but i nearly rode it in 2005. KI has ALOT of room for expansion but they just don't use it. :wink:
 
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