Joey said:We're talking about all all powerful, all knowing, fire breathing, winged beastie here. Kay?
Slash said:I can't believe I haven't posted in here. Well, here it goes.
I believe in God, the reason I believe in God is simple.
Try to understand this if you will, if something Supernatural, something bigger, more important and more amazing than anything the Universe has to offer did not create this, then what did?
Evolution is always the Atheists answer to God not existing. They say "If God exists why do we evolve? If he existed, he would have made us perfect!".
Well its simple really isn't it.
A. Evolution is a THEORY not FACT, no one knows if it is true, no one will ever live long enough to realise if it is true.
B. If evolution does exist then it may be God's way of trying to improve himself, changing beings to fit their environment and making those which he has made too weak extinct.
The other things Atheists say is "If God exists, why the hell is there suffering!".
Well, I believe that suffering and natural caused death is all God's way of stabilising the population, maybe thats a bit harsh to people to think that God chooses a mass of people to die but that is what I believe.
If God does not exist, what made this, I mean if you can tell me that we came from single celled organisms, then where did they come from?
I'm not saying that anything I said is right, or wrong.
But I'm going to say one last thing, if you want proof of God, look around you. Look at the perfection that you can see, the way each Organism works in harmony and is perfectly equipped for their purpose. Then tell me, can you honestly say this was by accident?
Joey said:How can a question like "Do you believe the universe was created intelligently?" be a yes or no question?Ollie said:I find it funny how a "Do you believe in God" Yes or No poll has turned into 22 pages off people arguing. :lol:
Well done. Evolution is a theory. Do you understand what a "theory" means in scientific terms...? Maybe you do, but I doubt it, since you're not also arguing the case that Gravity, too, is a theory.A. Evolution is a THEORY not FACT, no one knows if it is true, no one will ever live long enough to realise if it is true.
FACTS are observations... We don't fall off the Earth. THEORIES explain why we don't fall off the Earth.
Evolution has a mountain of evidence for it. A mountain of things we have observed which are facts. Those facts, like Whales having leg bones for example, are only explained by Evolution.
You're a rare breed if you're a Christian and think this statement works. God is infallible, all knowing and all powerful, so he cannot improve himself, which means he isn't all powerful... Eugh paradox.B. If evolution does exist then it may be God's way of trying to improve himself, changing beings to fit their environment and making those which he has made too weak extinct.
I don't really have too much of an issue with it. God, being all knowing, could foresee the changes in the environment that, being all powerful, he would be making in the first place.
But this sort of statement, however rare, is based on a misunderstanding of evolution. Most people accept "micro" evolution... The adaptation of individual species. Less people accept that those individual species become new species.
And this is the issue. The Biblical stories denounce evolution. Adam wasn't the descendant of a evolutionary process, he was just poofed into existence...
I don't know where they came from. But I'd like to know. Which is the point of science. You cannot possibly think it's logical to assume that what we know now is the limit to our knowledge and that we will never explain what we currently do not understand... so, let's just make up a story that fits?If God does not exist, what made this, I mean if you can tell me that we came from single celled organisms, then where did they come from?
Now you answer me this. Where did whatever made those single celled organisms come from, then?
God begs more questions than he answers. Simply not knowing something and asserting that the answer must be supernatural is complete idiocy. You only have to look back at human history to see that.
Did you miss the all powerful part? All powerful over rules everything. The end.kimahri said:Joey said:We're talking about all all powerful, all knowing, fire breathing, winged beastie here. Kay?
But, it's THOR!!!
He has a giant bad-ass hammer, that shoots lightening.
And have you seen that hat!?
Lain.
He is right!
Joey said:Did you miss the all powerful part? All powerful over rules everything. The end.kimahri said:Joey said:We're talking about all all powerful, all knowing, fire breathing, winged beastie here. Kay?
But, it's THOR!!!
He has a giant bad-ass hammer, that shoots lightening.
And have you seen that hat!?
Lain.
He is right!
Blaze said:Slash said:I can't believe I haven't posted in here. Well, here it goes.
I believe in God, the reason I believe in God is simple.
Try to understand this if you will, if something Supernatural, something bigger, more important and more amazing than anything the Universe has to offer did not create this, then what did?
Evolution is always the Atheists answer to God not existing. They say "If God exists why do we evolve? If he existed, he would have made us perfect!".
Well its simple really isn't it.
A. Evolution is a THEORY not FACT, no one knows if it is true, no one will ever live long enough to realise if it is true.
B. If evolution does exist then it may be God's way of trying to improve himself, changing beings to fit their environment and making those which he has made too weak extinct.
The other things Atheists say is "If God exists, why the hell is there suffering!".
Well, I believe that suffering and natural caused death is all God's way of stabilising the population, maybe thats a bit harsh to people to think that God chooses a mass of people to die but that is what I believe.
If God does not exist, what made this, I mean if you can tell me that we came from single celled organisms, then where did they come from?
I'm not saying that anything I said is right, or wrong.
But I'm going to say one last thing, if you want proof of God, look around you. Look at the perfection that you can see, the way each Organism works in harmony and is perfectly equipped for their purpose. Then tell me, can you honestly say this was by accident?
A. Evolution can be proved, it's called fossils many millions of years older than even slightly human fossils.
B. If God is perfect he can not improve himself, therefore defeating your own argument.
Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.
Every organism is not fit for purpose. Pandas. Simple as. They spend half their life stoned, the other half asleep. They are designed to eat meat, but eat bamboo, the panda equivelent of LSD. Perfection, as you put it, is not accident or God, it is survival of the fittest.
AS conditions changed on Earth, animals more suitable for survival due to natural differences lived, the others did not and died due to natural selection. Put it this way, if you dropped a rabid dog into a long corridor full of people, the fittinst and quickest would get out, and the fatties and sloths would not.
What the fossil record shows that there area bunch of really similar animals that existed in a progressively more complex tree over time.A. Evolution can be proved, it's called fossils many millions of years older than even slightly human fossils.
No, I think you'll find that proves other animals existence , not Evolution.
You're the first Christian I have ever met who says God is imperfect. I thought God was all powerful, all knowing, infallible... These things equate to perfectness. On top of this, the creator of the universe would by default be perfect. Remember, creator of EVERYTHING, even the idea of perfectness.B. If God is perfect he can not improve himself, therefore defeating your own argument.
I didn't say God was perfect. Not once. If you mean what I said at th end I meant eveything is almost perfect.
You're right that this guy is talking BS. But your response stems from the common creationist stance of "if things happened randomly then life would keep starting all over the place" which is such a gross misunderstanding of evolutionary theory.Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.
Nice invention of theory there, but if chemicals reacted with sunlight to make things then things would be popping up everywhere, making that absolute BS.
Again, this guy is half talking bull. He just misunderstands, like you do.Every organism is not fit for purpose. Pandas. Simple as. They spend half their life stoned, the other half asleep. They are designed to eat meat, but eat bamboo, the panda equivelent of LSD. Perfection, as you put it, is not accident or God, it is survival of the fittest.
I'm sorry, who taught you to read, I don't mean to start bashing you personaly but you keep on making out that I said somethig I didn't. I said that evolution may be Gods way of improving himself and extinction is just eradicating those that he cannot adapt without changing them completely. You seem under the delusion that I don't believe in Evolution.
And I have NEVER heard of bamboo being a halusanogenic or Pandas being able to eat meat, but I may be wrong.
:
Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.
Nice invention of theory there, but if chemicals reacted with sunlight to make things then things would be popping up everywhere, making that absolute BS.
Oh yes, because Friends said so, it must be true? Perhaps you're being sarcastic, but just in case you're not...jokerman said:Also, I think it was established on an episode of Friends a few years ago that evolution is a theory, so Joey, you are wrong tro insist that it is fact.
http://www.aaas.org/news/press_room/evolution/qanda.shtml said:Is evolution "just a theory?"
In detective novels, a "theory" is little more than an educated guess, often based on a few circumstantial facts. In science, the word "theory" means much more. A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world. The theory of biological evolution is more than "just a theory." It is as factual an explanation of the universe as the atomic theory of matter or the germ theory of disease. Our understanding of gravity is still a work in progress. But the phenomenon of gravity, like evolution, is an accepted fact.
http://www.evolution.mbdojo.com/theory.html said:A theory is a scientific explanation of an observed phenomenon. Unlike laws, theories actually explain why things are the way they are. Theories are what science is for. If, then, a theory is a scientific explanation of a natural phenomena, ask yourself this: "What part of that definition excludes a theory from being a fact?" The answer is nothing! There is no reason a theory cannot be an actual fact as well.
For example, there is the phenomenon of gravity, which you can feel. It is a fact that you can feel it, and that bodies caught in a gravitational field will fall towards the center. Then there is the theory of gravity, which explains the phenomenon of gravity, based on observation, physical evidence and experiment. Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity replaced the less accurate gravity theory of Sir Isaac Newton, which was the first complete mathematical theory formulated which described a fundamental force.
Joey said:Before I get back to UC's strangly and wonderfully out-of-character post...
What the fossil record shows that there area bunch of really similar animals that existed in a progressively more complex tree over time.A. Evolution can be proved, it's called fossils many millions of years older than even slightly human fossils.
No, I think you'll find that proves other animals existence , not Evolution.
That's evolution right there, dude. Whether you think it's intelligently started, controlled till this day, or there is no intelligent creator is irrelevant.
Once you know how genes work, and look at the fossil record, Evolution is quite simply unquestionable.
You're the first Christian I have ever met who says God is imperfect. I thought God was all powerful, all knowing, infallible... These things equate to perfectness. On top of this, the creator of the universe would by default be perfect. Remember, creator of EVERYTHING, even the idea of perfectness.B. If God is perfect he can not improve himself, therefore defeating your own argument.
I didn't say God was perfect. Not once. If you mean what I said at th end I meant eveything is almost perfect.
You're right that this guy is talking BS. But your response stems from the common creationist stance of "if things happened randomly then life would keep starting all over the place" which is such a gross misunderstanding of evolutionary theory.Signle cell organisms grew from chemicals and radiation, somehow chemicals in the atmosphere and solar radiation made cells which developed.
Nice invention of theory there, but if chemicals reacted with sunlight to make things then things would be popping up everywhere, making that absolute BS.
Again, this guy is half talking bull. He just misunderstands, like you do.Every organism is not fit for purpose. Pandas. Simple as. They spend half their life stoned, the other half asleep. They are designed to eat meat, but eat bamboo, the panda equivelent of LSD. Perfection, as you put it, is not accident or God, it is survival of the fittest.
I'm sorry, who taught you to read, I don't mean to start bashing you personaly but you keep on making out that I said somethig I didn't. I said that evolution may be Gods way of improving himself and extinction is just eradicating those that he cannot adapt without changing them completely. You seem under the delusion that I don't believe in Evolution.
And I have NEVER heard of bamboo being a halusanogenic or Pandas being able to eat meat, but I may be wrong.
Evolution could not physically, under normal circumstances, allow any creature not fit for purpose to exist into a species (individuals, yes). Let me make it clear that when discussing the natural world, "fit for purpose" can mean nothing else except "capable of passing on your genes, hopefully more than your rivals". If you aren't fit for this purpose, you don't pass on your genes, and it's the end of the line. See how an entire species cannot be unfit for purpose.
Panda's are retarded, and without human intervention would become extinct very quickly. This is partially "our fault" but more because they are such outrageously bad parents. They come into season about once every 4 years, and then often squash their young by sitting on them. They haven't adapted fast enough to deal with a world where humans steal their resources, compared to a successful species such as rats who have benefited from our rampage. Evolution would kick Pandas out very quickly, if it wasn't for us now protecting them. I'm not saying that we should not, I'm just pointing out a fact. Things that do not adapt as quick as their rivals die out. This is a case for the natural world, and the intellegently designed man-made world of technology, for example. It's an observable, undeniable fact.
From your post I cannot work out if you are a true creationist, or if you simply think God controls evolution or "started the ball rolling". Half of your arguments are against evolution entirely, the others are against it denouncing God (which it doesn't, on it's own). But the point is that Evolution is a fact and if you want the evidence, we can surely touch on it.
Something did start from nothing. This is a fact, because we are here. A divine creator doesn't change this, because, what made God? Something, at some point, surely came from nothing. OR everything is just ageless and infinite. Why apply the the logic that God has always been there, and not apply it to the universe in general?I'm saying if single celled organisms grew from chemicals reacting with sunlight, life would be appearing all the time. This is impossible as you well know, it is making something from nothing.