Fantasy Football (American football)
- Thread starter Youngster Joey
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madhjsp
Giga Poster
Just so you know Colossus, I am a UVA alum. So since we can never beat VT, nothing makes me happier than to see them lose to anyone else :lol:
Also Tom, you can't seriously argue that LSU and Bama weren't the two best teams in the country last year, or that Bama isn't the best team in the country this year. The SEC is anything but overrated. I'd think a fan of the Big 12 would know that... see the 2003, 2008, and 2009 BCS Championships. :wink:
Also Tom, you can't seriously argue that LSU and Bama weren't the two best teams in the country last year, or that Bama isn't the best team in the country this year. The SEC is anything but overrated. I'd think a fan of the Big 12 would know that... see the 2003, 2008, and 2009 BCS Championships. :wink:
tomahawk
Strata Poster
Alabama couldn't win its own conference. For that fact alone, there was no reason for them to be in the championship game, it wasn't fair to the rest of the country and teams.
And really, the SEC isn't overrate? Look at their non conference schedule altogether. They rely so heavily on "oh our conference is so strong we don't need to play anyone outside of it." Yet, when you have LSU giving 22 up to Towson, Auburn losing to UL-Monroe. Don't get me started on the "tough teams" you have in Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Vanderbilt, all of whom are doormats, and have been for a few years.
The Big 12 is the strongest conference top to bottom this year. The SEC is extremely top heavy like always, the Big 10 is awful, ACC is the ACC, and the 12 Pac is ignored since it is on the wrong coast. Yet, 2 one loss SEC teams will get into the national championship game over an undefeated K-State team, or a one loss USC team who lost solely because they had their third string center who was a true freshmen because the other two were injured, and the recruiting sanctions have ravished the team.
Everyone gets all over the SEC's nuts. Are they good? Hell yeah, but are they so much better that they should be gifted a title birth just for showing up? **** no.
And really, the SEC isn't overrate? Look at their non conference schedule altogether. They rely so heavily on "oh our conference is so strong we don't need to play anyone outside of it." Yet, when you have LSU giving 22 up to Towson, Auburn losing to UL-Monroe. Don't get me started on the "tough teams" you have in Kentucky, Ole Miss, and Vanderbilt, all of whom are doormats, and have been for a few years.
The Big 12 is the strongest conference top to bottom this year. The SEC is extremely top heavy like always, the Big 10 is awful, ACC is the ACC, and the 12 Pac is ignored since it is on the wrong coast. Yet, 2 one loss SEC teams will get into the national championship game over an undefeated K-State team, or a one loss USC team who lost solely because they had their third string center who was a true freshmen because the other two were injured, and the recruiting sanctions have ravished the team.
Everyone gets all over the SEC's nuts. Are they good? Hell yeah, but are they so much better that they should be gifted a title birth just for showing up? **** no.
Youngster Joey
Strata Poster
This is the steelers year for injuries. WAY more than normal fr us >.<
Snoo
The Legend
I'd like to see someone from the SEC go north of Kentucky for a game. Or, even better, someone from Florida schedule an OOC game from.. not Florida. SEC is good, I'll give them that, but as Tom said, quite top heavy. LSU is JUNK this year.. and tbh.. only Bama and USC look at all worthy of a shot for a national championship.
And hey, if you want to play some REALLY **** teams, play someone in the Big 10 besides.. of course.. the AP National Champion* Ohio State Buckeyes.
*Calling it.
And hey, if you want to play some REALLY **** teams, play someone in the Big 10 besides.. of course.. the AP National Champion* Ohio State Buckeyes.
*Calling it.
madhjsp
Giga Poster
Going to have to go all UC on you for this one, Tom...
Nonsense, I don't buy this argument at all. You know as well as I do that college football is all about who you lose to and when you lose. Bama lost by a field goal (in a game in which they missed multiple FGs) to a dominant #1 team that eventually won the conference. They (fairly so) weren't really punished in the polls for it, dropping only 1 spot to 3rd. Even if you wanted to argue that they deserved to fall further, that point becomes moot when you consider that OSU, Boise St, and Stanford all lost in the following weeks while Bama won their remaining games convincingly, including a blowout of #24 Auburn, which would have gotten them back up to #2 in any scenario. When all is said and done, the point of the national championship is to pit the top two teams in the country against each other, is it not? If they happen to be from the same conference, so be it. After every team had played their schedule out, more voters agreed that OSU was just not as good of a team as Bama, and thus not worthy of a championship slot. Perhaps there was some pro-SEC bias involved, but you can't argue with the end result. Alabama completely owned an undefeated LSU team that had themselves dominated every team they'd played (with the exception, of course, of Alabama). They earned the right to be called the best team. We'll never know if OSU-LSU or OSU-Bama would've been a better championship matchup, but I seriously doubt it. You've seen what happens more often than not when the Big 12's best plays the SEC's best. I'd have been willing to bet that even OSU's mighty offense would have struggled to score consistently against either SEC defense, while neither SEC offense would have had much trouble against OSU's token defense.
Auburn sucks this year (though they did, in fact, beat UL-Monroe :wink and LSU was overrated to begin with (an argument I've been making in college football-related discussions since the preseason)... I'll readily admit that. Arkansas is also a total mess, but I'm willing to chalk much of that up to an injury to their all-SEC starting QB and having an interim head coach who's slightly crazy and possibly depressed.
But where do you hear anyone making the case that UK, Ole Miss, or Vandy are any good? They are never listed as among the arguments that the SEC is the best college football conference. The teams that carry that banner most years are Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, and South Carolina. Of those, it's clear that Bama, Florida, and USC are the best this year. I'd like their odds against ANY Big 12 team. You know why? They can play defense, and outside of KSU, the Big 12 can't, plain & simple.
Along those lines, that's exactly why KSU is my pick to win the conference, and also why I think they'd have the best chance of any Big 12 team to beat those three aforementioned SEC powers. I mean, come on... WVU beat Baylor 70-63. Think for a minute about how stupid that score is. That's due more to absolutely putrid defense than to excellent offense (if the opposite were true, WVU should've hung 100 on JMU). I know that's a rather extreme example, but the point is: year in and year out the best SEC teams play top-notch football on both sides of the ball, while too often, the best best Big 12 and Pac 12 teams only excel at offense.
All of that is fair to say, but I'd like to make the point that if you are basing your estimate of the Big 12's top-to-bottom strength on the fact that they currently have eight 1- or 0-loss teams, just remember where those wins are coming from. You can't complain about the SEC scheduling OOC cupcakes when the Big 12 is just as guilty of the same thing. Conference play has just begun, so we'll see how even all those records are when the dust settles.
OK now, let's pump the brakes. First of all, USC ain't winning out, and you've already given the main two reasons why: their O-line sucks and they have no depth.
Second, KSU is a good team, but when you take off the purple & silver glasses and set down the Klein Kool-Aid for just a second, do you REALLY see them winning out? They can run the ball and play defense very well, which will keep them in any game, but the passing offense is shaky and they still have some tough games on the schedule, including playing WVU on the road. I did say they were my pick to win the conference, but I don't think they'll go undefeated. What happens if they make a few mistakes on defense and get behind more than 1 or 2 scores to some of these powerful Big 12 offenses, meaning they have to start throwing the ball to come back? Not saying they can't go undefeated, just that I don't think it's likely.
Third, the circumstances that led to two SEC teams ending up in the championship last year were extraordinary. I don't see that happening again very soon, even with the pro-SEC media bias (and I'm not denying that there is one, but I won't say it's unjustified either). I've already explained it in depth, but essentially, OSU shot themselves in the foot by dropping a late-season game to lowly Iowa State, while Bama's loss was better-timed, and was only by a field goal to the consensus #1 team in the country - a forgivable loss if there ever was one. Given the way the polls have always and will always work, making the quality and timing of losses paramount, OSU screwed themselves over and doesn't have much room to complain.
That said, in any of the most likely ways that the remainder of this regular season plays out, the team that wins the SEC, provided it is undefeated or has just 1 loss, is going to be at the very least deserving of hard consideration for a spot in the national championship. I suppose at this point it's still possible that you could have some insane scenario where Notre Dame and the champion of each BCS conference (sans the ACC) is undefeated, but say we have a more realistic situation where you've got only one major-conference undefeated team that is not the SEC champion (I personally believe Bama will run the table, but let's pretend for now that they don't). Among the rest of the one-loss candidates vying for that #2 spot, voters will be more inclined to vote in the SEC champion given the conference's recent history in BCS bowl games and, most notably, BCS championships. This, in addition to the fact that the SEC champion will have just notched a win against what will very likely be a top-10 team in the SEC championship game, giving voters extra ammo to bump them up in the polls (although a top-10 win in the conference championship game is also possible for a 1-loss Pac-12 champion, so if this happens and we have a 1-loss champion from those two conferences vying for #2, I can't really say with any certainty what would happen).
In a scenario with two major-conference undefeated teams, neither of which is the SEC champion, they will play for the championship. If one of those teams is the Big East champion, the vote will be close because of their weak schedule, but I still think they manage the #2 spot.
Then finally, in the less-realistic-but-still-possible scenario where you have three or four major-conference undefeated teams, and the SEC champion is among them, that team is pretty much guaranteed to get to the national championship based on how things look in the current polls. If Bama wins out, they're not getting jumped and they're in. If SC wins out, they jump Bama and possibly Oregon and they're in. If Florida wins out, they jump SC, Bama, and possibly Oregon and they're in. And in the highly unlikely event that Mississippi State wins out, they will have an very good chance of rising to at least #2 with road wins over Bama and LSU, a home win over Texas A&M, and an SEC Championship win over Florida/SC/Georgia.
And with that, onto the pro game...
HELL YEAH, GO TITANS! But for real, I don't think I have never seen a team lose that many players to injury in a single game. What's in the water up there in Pittsburgh?
tomahawKSU said:
Nonsense, I don't buy this argument at all. You know as well as I do that college football is all about who you lose to and when you lose. Bama lost by a field goal (in a game in which they missed multiple FGs) to a dominant #1 team that eventually won the conference. They (fairly so) weren't really punished in the polls for it, dropping only 1 spot to 3rd. Even if you wanted to argue that they deserved to fall further, that point becomes moot when you consider that OSU, Boise St, and Stanford all lost in the following weeks while Bama won their remaining games convincingly, including a blowout of #24 Auburn, which would have gotten them back up to #2 in any scenario. When all is said and done, the point of the national championship is to pit the top two teams in the country against each other, is it not? If they happen to be from the same conference, so be it. After every team had played their schedule out, more voters agreed that OSU was just not as good of a team as Bama, and thus not worthy of a championship slot. Perhaps there was some pro-SEC bias involved, but you can't argue with the end result. Alabama completely owned an undefeated LSU team that had themselves dominated every team they'd played (with the exception, of course, of Alabama). They earned the right to be called the best team. We'll never know if OSU-LSU or OSU-Bama would've been a better championship matchup, but I seriously doubt it. You've seen what happens more often than not when the Big 12's best plays the SEC's best. I'd have been willing to bet that even OSU's mighty offense would have struggled to score consistently against either SEC defense, while neither SEC offense would have had much trouble against OSU's token defense.
tomahawKSU said:
Auburn sucks this year (though they did, in fact, beat UL-Monroe :wink
and LSU was overrated to begin with (an argument I've been making in college football-related discussions since the preseason)... I'll readily admit that. Arkansas is also a total mess, but I'm willing to chalk much of that up to an injury to their all-SEC starting QB and having an interim head coach who's slightly crazy and possibly depressed. But where do you hear anyone making the case that UK, Ole Miss, or Vandy are any good? They are never listed as among the arguments that the SEC is the best college football conference. The teams that carry that banner most years are Alabama, LSU, Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, and South Carolina. Of those, it's clear that Bama, Florida, and USC are the best this year. I'd like their odds against ANY Big 12 team. You know why? They can play defense, and outside of KSU, the Big 12 can't, plain & simple.
Along those lines, that's exactly why KSU is my pick to win the conference, and also why I think they'd have the best chance of any Big 12 team to beat those three aforementioned SEC powers. I mean, come on... WVU beat Baylor 70-63. Think for a minute about how stupid that score is. That's due more to absolutely putrid defense than to excellent offense (if the opposite were true, WVU should've hung 100 on JMU). I know that's a rather extreme example, but the point is: year in and year out the best SEC teams play top-notch football on both sides of the ball, while too often, the best best Big 12 and Pac 12 teams only excel at offense.
tomahawKSU said:
All of that is fair to say, but I'd like to make the point that if you are basing your estimate of the Big 12's top-to-bottom strength on the fact that they currently have eight 1- or 0-loss teams, just remember where those wins are coming from. You can't complain about the SEC scheduling OOC cupcakes when the Big 12 is just as guilty of the same thing. Conference play has just begun, so we'll see how even all those records are when the dust settles.
tomahawKSU said:
OK now, let's pump the brakes. First of all, USC ain't winning out, and you've already given the main two reasons why: their O-line sucks and they have no depth.
Second, KSU is a good team, but when you take off the purple & silver glasses and set down the Klein Kool-Aid for just a second, do you REALLY see them winning out? They can run the ball and play defense very well, which will keep them in any game, but the passing offense is shaky and they still have some tough games on the schedule, including playing WVU on the road. I did say they were my pick to win the conference, but I don't think they'll go undefeated. What happens if they make a few mistakes on defense and get behind more than 1 or 2 scores to some of these powerful Big 12 offenses, meaning they have to start throwing the ball to come back? Not saying they can't go undefeated, just that I don't think it's likely.
Third, the circumstances that led to two SEC teams ending up in the championship last year were extraordinary. I don't see that happening again very soon, even with the pro-SEC media bias (and I'm not denying that there is one, but I won't say it's unjustified either). I've already explained it in depth, but essentially, OSU shot themselves in the foot by dropping a late-season game to lowly Iowa State, while Bama's loss was better-timed, and was only by a field goal to the consensus #1 team in the country - a forgivable loss if there ever was one. Given the way the polls have always and will always work, making the quality and timing of losses paramount, OSU screwed themselves over and doesn't have much room to complain.
That said, in any of the most likely ways that the remainder of this regular season plays out, the team that wins the SEC, provided it is undefeated or has just 1 loss, is going to be at the very least deserving of hard consideration for a spot in the national championship. I suppose at this point it's still possible that you could have some insane scenario where Notre Dame and the champion of each BCS conference (sans the ACC) is undefeated, but say we have a more realistic situation where you've got only one major-conference undefeated team that is not the SEC champion (I personally believe Bama will run the table, but let's pretend for now that they don't). Among the rest of the one-loss candidates vying for that #2 spot, voters will be more inclined to vote in the SEC champion given the conference's recent history in BCS bowl games and, most notably, BCS championships. This, in addition to the fact that the SEC champion will have just notched a win against what will very likely be a top-10 team in the SEC championship game, giving voters extra ammo to bump them up in the polls (although a top-10 win in the conference championship game is also possible for a 1-loss Pac-12 champion, so if this happens and we have a 1-loss champion from those two conferences vying for #2, I can't really say with any certainty what would happen).
In a scenario with two major-conference undefeated teams, neither of which is the SEC champion, they will play for the championship. If one of those teams is the Big East champion, the vote will be close because of their weak schedule, but I still think they manage the #2 spot.
Then finally, in the less-realistic-but-still-possible scenario where you have three or four major-conference undefeated teams, and the SEC champion is among them, that team is pretty much guaranteed to get to the national championship based on how things look in the current polls. If Bama wins out, they're not getting jumped and they're in. If SC wins out, they jump Bama and possibly Oregon and they're in. If Florida wins out, they jump SC, Bama, and possibly Oregon and they're in. And in the highly unlikely event that Mississippi State wins out, they will have an very good chance of rising to at least #2 with road wins over Bama and LSU, a home win over Texas A&M, and an SEC Championship win over Florida/SC/Georgia.
And with that, onto the pro game...
Youngster Joey said:
HELL YEAH, GO TITANS! But for real, I don't think I have never seen a team lose that many players to injury in a single game. What's in the water up there in Pittsburgh?
tomahawk
Strata Poster
Yes, I am a KSU alum, and I am VERY biased, but I know several of these guys first hand (thank you coaching football class, and that is a real class lol) and the way they are coached, and they way they play, they can win out. I'm not saying they will, since they still have @WVU, OkieState, Texas (who is overrated), and @TCU which isn't nearly as scary now that Pachall is gone, and then this week against Iowa State, which I kind of consider the scariest game of the year. Next week is WVU, this week is Iowa State, my fear is they will overlook the clones, and they are always a tough team, and very well coached. Farmageddon is always a good match up.
If KSU DOES win out, and Oregon and Bama do as well, it will rip my heart out knowing that they have zero shot at the championship. Last year, we were completely overlooked for a BCS bowl because we were told we don't travel well and wouldn't get enough viewership. The Sugar Bowl committee said so, and took a not nearly as talented, and lesser deserving team, in Michigan. The media hates KSU, because it is middle of the country, but if Bill Snyder had coached anywhere else, he would be called the greatest coach in the history of sports for what he did to that team in the 90s, and is doing again. Nobody could deny that.
If KSU DOES win out, and Oregon and Bama do as well, it will rip my heart out knowing that they have zero shot at the championship. Last year, we were completely overlooked for a BCS bowl because we were told we don't travel well and wouldn't get enough viewership. The Sugar Bowl committee said so, and took a not nearly as talented, and lesser deserving team, in Michigan. The media hates KSU, because it is middle of the country, but if Bill Snyder had coached anywhere else, he would be called the greatest coach in the history of sports for what he did to that team in the 90s, and is doing again. Nobody could deny that.
madhjsp
Giga Poster
tomahawKSU said:
I edited the last part of my post to go into greater detail about why an SEC team would likely end up in the BCS championship in most end-of-season scenarios. Unfortunately, when it comes to bowl selections, the media and bowl committee's perceptions of the strength of the fanbase do play a large role. On the other hand, for the national championship, KSU is certainly in contention if they do manage to win out. However, the main problem is that they are currently ranked below the top 3 undefeated SEC teams and Oregon. If both Oregon and just one of those 3 SEC teams wins out, it's hard to imagine a scenario where an undefeated KSU team jumps either one of them into the #2 spot, since they don't have the benefit of playing a conference championship game.
But I do agree that Bill Snyder is a grossly underrated coach. Just because of where he coaches, he can't compete for recruits on the same level as other Big 12 schools such as Texas, Oklahoma, and WVU. Despite that, he seems to consistently get more out of his kids than anybody. Klein is a great example: his only other scholarship offers coming out of high school were from Eastern Washington and Colorado State, and now here we are talking about him as a longshot Heisman candidate. That shows an ability in Snyder to find unrecognized talent and coach that talent up to its fullest potential.
Youngster Joey
Strata Poster
My Opponent get's a 16 point game from his kicker...
I get a 50 point game from rodgers. I really thought Tom had me this week
I get a 50 point game from rodgers. I really thought Tom had me this week
Youngster Joey
Strata Poster
**** College football. Wasn't made for this thread
Youngster Joey
Strata Poster
So who am I playing this week?
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Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
madhjsp
Giga Poster
So the playoffs are pretty much ruled out for me unless I go on some ridiculous winning streak. But, I think things are starting to click for the guys on my team, and I'll win some games this season. Can't wait to play a spoiler role and keep someone out of the playoffs later. :twisted: