Dreamland Margate News
- Thread starter peep
- Start date
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
Unfortunately, the Dreamland Trust (CPO winners) aren't allowed to work on site until they have full control of the land, which can only happen when a hearing result is decided.
They are however, permitted to restore the three listed assets, the Cinema, Scenic and the menagerie cages. At least, I think that is how it works.
Unfortunately, the Dreamland Trust (CPO winners) aren't allowed to work on site until they have full control of the land, which can only happen when a hearing result is decided.
They are however, permitted to restore the three listed assets, the Cinema, Scenic and the menagerie cages. At least, I think that is how it works.
STC
Mega Poster
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
There was something in the December newsletter about them removing some Japanese Knotweed from underneath the Scenic.
Can someone clarify the situation? Are they allowed to begin the full-scale rebuild of the Scenic or are they just allowed to 'tinker at the edges' until this appeal inevitably gets quashed?
LG95 said:
There was something in the December newsletter about them removing some Japanese Knotweed from underneath the Scenic.
Can someone clarify the situation? Are they allowed to begin the full-scale rebuild of the Scenic or are they just allowed to 'tinker at the edges' until this appeal inevitably gets quashed?
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
^I too would be interested to know this. Both the owners and the trust want the Scenic as part of their plans. There is no alternate design, therefore, why is it taking so long to be rebuilt?
As I understand it, urgent work notices give the council the right to restore any listed asset regardless of ownership. I think the Scenic could be restored whenever but maybe the council don't want to rebuild it until they are confident the site will follow suit shortly afterwards. For example what is the point in them reinvesting in the ride, if it is then going to be left to rot for another five or so years.
^I too would be interested to know this. Both the owners and the trust want the Scenic as part of their plans. There is no alternate design, therefore, why is it taking so long to be rebuilt?
As I understand it, urgent work notices give the council the right to restore any listed asset regardless of ownership. I think the Scenic could be restored whenever but maybe the council don't want to rebuild it until they are confident the site will follow suit shortly afterwards. For example what is the point in them reinvesting in the ride, if it is then going to be left to rot for another five or so years.
STC
Mega Poster
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
It's also possible that they are fully within their rights to restore it, it's just that they haven't finalised the restoration plans yet, and don't want to do anything until they have.
The worst situation to be in is having to knock down and start again bits that you've rebuilt because there's been a change of plan down the line.
It's also possible that they are fully within their rights to restore it, it's just that they haven't finalised the restoration plans yet, and don't want to do anything until they have.
The worst situation to be in is having to knock down and start again bits that you've rebuilt because there's been a change of plan down the line.
sparky2u
Mega Poster
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
From Dreamland newsletter:
DREAMLAND APPEAL - COURT DATE SET
On Thursday 20 December Thanet District Council was successful in its application to have the Dreamland Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) appeal prioritised.
A two day hearing will now take place on Wednesday 20 and Thursday 21 March 2013.
If the appeal by the landowners is unsuccessful, Thanet District Council will immediately begin the process of acquiring ownership of the site.
The council received approval from the Secretary of State for the Compulsory Purchase of the site in August 2012, following a public inquiry. The landowners then challenged the decision by the Secretary of State.
Thanet District Council is working in partnership with the Dreamland Trust to create a world first for the site, an amusement park of thrilling historic rides, with classic sideshows, vintage cafes, restaurants, and gardens with special events and festivals.
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Why can't say David Cameron just say "this land will be given to the Dreamland Trust to convert into a historic theme park so it preserves local & English history",
It should not have to go to local councils to fight over as the park will never open & the area will have flats on it which is such a huge waste.
From Dreamland newsletter:
DREAMLAND APPEAL - COURT DATE SET
On Thursday 20 December Thanet District Council was successful in its application to have the Dreamland Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) appeal prioritised.
A two day hearing will now take place on Wednesday 20 and Thursday 21 March 2013.
If the appeal by the landowners is unsuccessful, Thanet District Council will immediately begin the process of acquiring ownership of the site.
The council received approval from the Secretary of State for the Compulsory Purchase of the site in August 2012, following a public inquiry. The landowners then challenged the decision by the Secretary of State.
Thanet District Council is working in partnership with the Dreamland Trust to create a world first for the site, an amusement park of thrilling historic rides, with classic sideshows, vintage cafes, restaurants, and gardens with special events and festivals.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Why can't say David Cameron just say "this land will be given to the Dreamland Trust to convert into a historic theme park so it preserves local & English history",
It should not have to go to local councils to fight over as the park will never open & the area will have flats on it which is such a huge waste.
rollermonkey
Strata Poster
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
To be honest, it's a tough call which story is proceeding more slowly, this or the Flying Turns coaster at Knoebels.
To be honest, it's a tough call which story is proceeding more slowly, this or the Flying Turns coaster at Knoebels.
rollermonkey
Strata Poster
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
I know. I just wish they would stop having meetings and actually DO something in Margate, even if it was that a bulldozer goes through the place and finishes what the fires started.
I'd rather they start fixing stuff, but anything is better than nothing at this point.
I know. I just wish they would stop having meetings and actually DO something in Margate, even if it was that a bulldozer goes through the place and finishes what the fires started.
I'd rather they start fixing stuff, but anything is better than nothing at this point.
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
Surely the Scenic needs rebuilding anyway. There's a duty of care under the listing for the owners to repair it.
So it HAS to be done. The reason for the CPO is because the owners are refusing to do the repairs, it's the last "they're not looking after the listed building, so now the officials have to step in" thing.
The council should be given the power to start the repairs and to bill the owners for it if they keep the ride. If they don't, then the Dreamland trust foot the bill. At some point, somewhere, the ride needs to be rebuilt and operational - the cost is always going to land in the final owner's lap.
I know it isn't that simple, but it should be :lol:
There's a similar thing happening in Stafford, and you can see it mirrored here at Margate. There's an old mental hospital that is Grade II listed and it's been stood empty for about as long as I've been here (20 years or so).
The council have refused planning put forward by loads of people time and time again. The University wanted to convert it to halls, but they needed to alter doorways to meet H&S regulations. As it's listed, the council wouldn't let them make the changes.
Then it was meant to be the centre of a college of excellence for an international cookery university (or something foody anyway). Same thing, they had to make too many alterations to the building so they couldn't get planning.
Then somebody set fire to it and it became an even bigger mess than it was.
So the council approved a housing estate around it, with the proviso that the building would be rebuilt as close as possible and with apartments in it (pretty much the Universities plans).
So that's what's happening, much the same plan as the Scenic Owners have for the Dreamland site.
They've been working on site for about three years, and about 1/4 of the housing estate is now open, the rest is due to open in the next 12 months. The Grade II listed building is STILL unsecured and in disrepair. It's getting worse each day and there's no way the estate owners will start on it until the rest of the estate is built and populated.
With luck (for them), the building will collapse in the mean time and then they'll just have to put more shoe boxes on the ground.
Again, I could see this mirrored at Dreamland. The Scenic left for four or five more years untended while the money is put together for the estate build, and for the build to be completed. Then an accident may occur on the much degraded coaster and "oops, we can just put houses there".
I'm not suggesting that all fires and collapses are a deliberate attempt by greedy fat cats to play land into their hands and to get around listing issues. It's just that they are often very lucky with fires and the like - mostly not due to a direct attempt, but simply because the buildings aren't secured or looked after for such long periods of time.
Actually, weren't they meant to fix the Scenic due to the fact it was proven they were not looking after it well enough? Fix it, bill them, open it and let people get the cred!
Surely the Scenic needs rebuilding anyway. There's a duty of care under the listing for the owners to repair it.
So it HAS to be done. The reason for the CPO is because the owners are refusing to do the repairs, it's the last "they're not looking after the listed building, so now the officials have to step in" thing.
The council should be given the power to start the repairs and to bill the owners for it if they keep the ride. If they don't, then the Dreamland trust foot the bill. At some point, somewhere, the ride needs to be rebuilt and operational - the cost is always going to land in the final owner's lap.
I know it isn't that simple, but it should be :lol:
There's a similar thing happening in Stafford, and you can see it mirrored here at Margate. There's an old mental hospital that is Grade II listed and it's been stood empty for about as long as I've been here (20 years or so).
The council have refused planning put forward by loads of people time and time again. The University wanted to convert it to halls, but they needed to alter doorways to meet H&S regulations. As it's listed, the council wouldn't let them make the changes.
Then it was meant to be the centre of a college of excellence for an international cookery university (or something foody anyway). Same thing, they had to make too many alterations to the building so they couldn't get planning.
Then somebody set fire to it and it became an even bigger mess than it was.
So the council approved a housing estate around it, with the proviso that the building would be rebuilt as close as possible and with apartments in it (pretty much the Universities plans).
So that's what's happening, much the same plan as the Scenic Owners have for the Dreamland site.
They've been working on site for about three years, and about 1/4 of the housing estate is now open, the rest is due to open in the next 12 months. The Grade II listed building is STILL unsecured and in disrepair. It's getting worse each day and there's no way the estate owners will start on it until the rest of the estate is built and populated.
With luck (for them), the building will collapse in the mean time and then they'll just have to put more shoe boxes on the ground.
Again, I could see this mirrored at Dreamland. The Scenic left for four or five more years untended while the money is put together for the estate build, and for the build to be completed. Then an accident may occur on the much degraded coaster and "oops, we can just put houses there".
I'm not suggesting that all fires and collapses are a deliberate attempt by greedy fat cats to play land into their hands and to get around listing issues. It's just that they are often very lucky with fires and the like - mostly not due to a direct attempt, but simply because the buildings aren't secured or looked after for such long periods of time.
Actually, weren't they meant to fix the Scenic due to the fact it was proven they were not looking after it well enough? Fix it, bill them, open it and let people get the cred!
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
I too could see that happening, but only under the owners scheme. They propose a housing estate, on land which is dedicated as an amusement park. Changing its use alone could take some time. This is not even mentioning the need for planning permission and consultation.
If this scheme was to go ahead, (while unlikely) there is no reason why further damage couldn't be caused to the coaster.
I too could see that happening, but only under the owners scheme. They propose a housing estate, on land which is dedicated as an amusement park. Changing its use alone could take some time. This is not even mentioning the need for planning permission and consultation.
If this scheme was to go ahead, (while unlikely) there is no reason why further damage couldn't be caused to the coaster.
Thekingin64
Strata Poster
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
^^ I think something similar is planned to happen to the old Denbigh Mental Hospital. Not sure though but the building is in a bit of disrepair and needs something doing to it.
^^ I think something similar is planned to happen to the old Denbigh Mental Hospital. Not sure though but the building is in a bit of disrepair and needs something doing to it.
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
It's exactly what would happen and everyone knows it, which is why the council and Dreamland Trust are fighting for the CPO. The red tape is ridiculous, but we're talking people who have £££££ in their eyes and politicians - so you're never going to have anybody doing anything for the right reasons* :roll:
* Dreamland Trust are, obviously, but they're caught between politicians and fat cats, the worst place in the world.
LG95 said:
It's exactly what would happen and everyone knows it, which is why the council and Dreamland Trust are fighting for the CPO. The red tape is ridiculous, but we're talking people who have £££££ in their eyes and politicians - so you're never going to have anybody doing anything for the right reasons* :roll:
* Dreamland Trust are, obviously, but they're caught between politicians and fat cats, the worst place in the world.
SilverArrow
Certified Ride Geek
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
Saw lots of stuff about it on the news today (regional). Really hoping for a positive result!
Saw lots of stuff about it on the news today (regional). Really hoping for a positive result!
rollermonkey
Strata Poster
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news
Good thing they haven't rushed through the legal proceedings on this park.
:lol:
It feels like it's been a decade since the park went SBNO.
Good thing they haven't rushed through the legal proceedings on this park.
:lol:
It feels like it's been a decade since the park went SBNO.