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Dreamland Margate News

Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Dont know if this is new news or not, but it seems like the land owners aren't giving up without a fight, and a decision on the future of Dreamland is being made tomorrow.

On the 10th January the future of the Dreamland site in Margate is to be decided. After years of neglect of the site by the owners, Thanet District Council (TDC) decided to impose a Compulsory Purchase Order so that they could go forward with plans to build a Heritage amusement park. The owners of the site the 'Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company Limited' have appealed this decision and therefore taken the decision to Public Inquiry on the 10th January at the Council offices.

Every person that I have spoken to wants to see a successful Dreamland that can help to build on the effects of the Turner Centre in the regeneration taking place in Margate Old Town. The 'Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company Limited' have submitted their own proposals for the Dreamland site which are completely unviable because it claims to rely on the same funding as TDC's proposal, yet the TDC funding partly comes from pots of money directly for Local Government. Furthermore because of the history of the current owners in neglecting the site for so long there appears to be a total lack of trust in their ability to implement their proposals.

As a Councillor I was elected to represent the interests of the people, and as such I am going to do everything I can to help. I have spoken to several of the groups involved in Dreamland and we have agreed to run a petition supporting the position of TDC and the Dreamland Trust. Up until the 10th January we will be running this petition in a campaign to Save Dreamland and make it absolutely clear that people want Dreamland back up and running. If anyone is interested in getting involved in the campaign please contact me on 07792416865 or email to cllr-william.scobie@thanet.gov.uk . I will be posting daily updates on how the campaign is going on this blog and we will be petitioning Margate high street on Monday to get more signatures (I will post exact times and location tomorrow). I am not going to suggest that this campaign is necessarily going to change the decision as they will be looking at the planning side of it, however we need to make sure that the Planning Inspector is in no doubt as to what the people of Margate and Thanet want for the Dreamland Site. The petition is below so if anyone wants to see the exact wording or print off a copy to help get signatures you just need to click the link.
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http://williamscobie.blogspot.com/2011/ ... paign.html
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

I read about this the other day actually. The current owners are essentially saying "You can't compulsory purchase order the site because WE HAVE PLANS TOO!"

The plans are stunning. It's a housing estate with the Scenic Railway in the middle, it really has to be seen to be believed:
http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/Dreamland-b ... story.html

It's ridiculous. They've had the site for what? Ten years? They've done nothing but let it degrade and the Scenic be destroyed (plus left the cinema which The Dreamland Trust have renovated). Now all of a sudden they're very active and fighting this. The owners have done nothing and now expect to get away with claiming they've got a grand plan they'll implement immediately? I don't think so. It's just a load of graphics and hot air. I hope the public and planning officers have sense and can see through it all.
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

While I don't want it to happen, That would be quite cool and I'd definitly want to live there.
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Surely they wont approve that over an actual amusement park that will bring a lot of money and tourists to the area?
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Can't they just demolish it and put up some low-grade council housing already?
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

tks said:
Can't they just demolish it and put up some low-grade council housing already?
Click to expand...

What's wrong with Dreamland? The Scenic Railway is a cracking coaster, and if surrounded by loads of vintage and rare rides (including a wooden mouse) it would be absolute geek heaven.
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Wow! I'd love to live there!
Although obviously not at the expense of the fab vintage park idea. Come on Margaret, sort it out!
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Don't expect a decision today. Today sees the start of a public inquiry, not a planning meeting. Think of a court case where evidence is shown and both sides of the argument are heard. It's scheduled to sit on a handful of dates over the next 2 weeks, although could well be extended beyond that if the inquiry is not complete.

More details on the inquiry itself are available here: http://www.thanet.gov.uk/environment--- ... quiry.aspx

This page might also be of interest to some. They've basically collected together links to all of the important info about Dreamland: http://www.thanet.gov.uk/environment__p ... mland.aspx
 
Scenic Railway in Margate news

This whole Margate thing is so annoying, one minute it's on, next minute it's off. Now there going to build a housing estate with the Scenic in the middle?! If that gets approved I have seen it all. What are they going to do just operate the coaster on its own through the middle of the estate? Crazy!
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

^ And you can bet that wont last long.

How could it generate any kind of worthwile profit? You can just see that after a few months it'll close, then a few months later it'll be torn down to make way for more houses.

Even if the coaster wasn't there right now, surely an amusement park is a better option than a housing estate, for a seaside resort? Its ridiculous that it even has to be considered...
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

So, TDC's website is being updated after each day of the inquiry with a series of reports summarising what happened. The overview is available here (http://www.thanet.gov.uk/environment--- ... quiry.aspx) then each day has another list of links to report what happened in each section of the day's proceedings. I <3 Local Government hahaha
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Oh nice find! I might wait until more has happened before reading it all.
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

It's tragic, but I'm quite tempted to book an extra day off work on weds and go and watch it :D
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Someone from BPB management has been giving evidence :lol:

The only person to give evidence was John Collins, who has previously owned and operated leisure attractions. He explained that he serves on the board of the Blackpool Pleasure Beach and helped set up Port Aventura in Spain. He was appearing on behalf of the MTCRC.

He told the Inquiry that the proposals from the council and the Dreamland Trust were “unlikely to be viable in the long term” and were “not as appealing to a modern audience as believed by the Dreamland Trust”.

Mr. Collins argued that the Trust’s rides would have to compete with more modern rides at other theme parks and called into question whether the project had a large enough budget to deliver heritage rides to the required safety standards, saying that the health and safety costs seem low, in his experience.
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The Council's reponse:

The council’s barrister, Martin Edwards, began by reviewing Mr. Collins’ history, asking him to clarify when he had last owned and operated an amusement park. Mr. Collins confirmed that this was Barry Island and that he sold his shares in this in 1983. He also confirmed that he had started work for MTCRC at the start of October 2011.

He was then asked if he knew of any amusement parks in the UK where rides were “as close to the housing as is proposed” by MTCRC. Mr. Collins admitted that he couldn’t “give you an instance at this stage”.

The council’s barrister then asked about the research that Mr. Collins had undertaken for MTCRC. Mr. Collins explained that he had carried out four phone interviews with theme park operators, although he didn’t have a set list of questions and the information he had obtained was confidential.

Mr. Collins was then asked about his comments about the viability of the council’s and Dreamland Trust’s plans. He said that the first year of operation would be crucial and that if it couldn’t generate enough surplus to add more attractions, then “I fear for it”. He was asked what makes the MTCRC’s plans more likely to succeed and he explained that he felt it would be by having two signature rides, the Scenic Railway and an underground heritage experience simulator, and the fact that it would “tell a story in a very appealing and modern way”.

The council’s barrister then looked at the Grade II* listed Scenic Railway, which is part of the plans put forward by both the council and the objectors. Mr. Collins told the Inquiry that: “if a person had a choice of travelling to a park and they knew the Scenic was a gentle old ride… and there was also a much more modern coaster… then I think the majority would go for the more modern version.” He admitted that this view was not based on hard data.

He was then asked how he felt about the Scenic Railway being listed first as Grade II and then Grade II*. He told the Inquiry that “it didn’t really affect me either way” and was then asked whether the fact that it was nationally important for its history was not something that touched him. He replied: “Frankly not. I guess that gives you an honest answer to when I first heard the news.”

The council’s barrister then took Mr. Collins through details of a number of amusement parks that have closed, asking for reasons why this had happened. Mr. Collins explained that there had been a “clear decline” in visits to seaside amusement parks over many years, but acknowledged that some of these parks had closed as the owners could see a better return from selling the land for redevelopment for other uses, such as houses.
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Also, 'nice' ariel picture of the park:

IMG_6497front.jpg


Again, spotted this news on Towerstimes.
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Wow.

That picture.

Sad to see gaps in the track, but the possibilities for all that flat land!

F houses. Plenty of room for a nice little seaside attraction there...

Oh, and Mr. Collins sounds like an ass. Can't even tell who's side he's on.

Waffle much?
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Hmmm, it would seem the reason that this Mr Collins was hired by the MTCRC is because he is like Jimmy Godden. Basically quite happy to run a park into the ground and then sell it off as real estate! Godden is the man that has had a history of buying parks, running them into the ground - occasionally burning them to the ground and then selling them as real estate. He is a very 'unlucky' business man who basically put Dreamland in the position it is in now.
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Oh, and Mr. Collins sounds like an ass. Can't even tell who's side he's on.
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He works for the MTCRC, 'Margate Town Centre Regeneration C...ampaign?. Basically he works for the people who want it to be a housing estate, yet he also works for BPB...? And he created Port Aventura, AND Barry Island Pleasure Park?!
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

Margate Town Centre Regeneration Company. After about 10 years, the company has regenerated the town centre by closing the only solid means of attracting visitors to the town and allowing two of its properties to be damaged/destroyed by fire.

It's unfortunate they got regeneration and degeneration mixed up ;)

Working on the board at PBB could be seen as a conflict of interest if this new park is going to be competition for PBB (not that I think it is mind). "Helped to create Port Aventura"? He could have organised taxi's for the caterer on the initial planning meetings ;)

I don't know about the Barry Island thing, but I know that in 1983, British Seaside parks were in a make-or-break situation. Blackpool, Southport, Morecambe and Margate all "made it". I'd say at that time, Barry Island, Rhyl and a fair few others were broken by it. It's a difficult thing to mail, but you find that the parks where both the owners and councils fully supported the parks, they succeeded. It needs strong support from both to work. Where there's been failings since are due to one side or the other pulling out. In the early 80's both parks and local authorities needed to pull together to make it through.

I'm following this with great interest, so cheers to everyone for bringing the updates into here :)
 
Scenic Railway in Margate news

They should have got Southend involved, that park is proof enough that a sea side theme park can work if done right.
 
Re: Scenic Railway in Margate news

By Southend, I presume you mean Adventure Island and therfore Phillip Miller.

Ironically at one stage Phillip Miller did express interest in the park to Godden and the MTCRC. However it was turned down. The MTCRC don't want it to be an amusement park because as a housing estate the land becomes far more valuable.
 
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