Cedar Point | "GateKeeper" | B&M Wingrider

[andrus]

^Well, as I wrote I haven't had the opportunity to ride a B&M wingrider yet. The statement was solely based on assumptions. I think the design is a bit flawed since the wingrider concept should be about total freedom, and not have a big B&M spine next to you blocking the view! But since you don't got a problem with it Jerry, I guess I'm on the safe side as well :wink: but Katia most definitely will be bothered!

 

[ECG]

I'm sure that B&M have a valid reason for designing the trains that way & there's certainly no denying that the trains are every bit as smooth, if not more so, as we're accustomed to from their other coasters. I'm not saying that is why they're designed that way, but it could well be the reason.
I don't think that the spine blocking any views is really an issue tbh. With the way the wing coasters roll, flip & tilt throughout their circuits, there's plenty of fantastic views to be had all around & I've never heard any complaints from riders (no matter their size) during the many hours I've spent around all of these babies.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtlvrNxB57E[/youtube]

Photos from today's construction:

 

[rollermonkey]

Wah. Why isn't it testing yet.

:roll

 

[furie]

Aren't the lower seats better for heart-lining, etc?

Look at the Intamin above track versions and the B&M alongside track versions... Which get a huge number of "OMFG THE PAIN" comments and 2 built in 6 years, and the other "lovely to ride" comments and 6 built in 2 years?

I think that may say it all

 

[kadabrium]

Am I the only one who do not like the lowered seats on these coasters?
The bent and downward protruding arms look prominently awkward (or awkwardly prominent?) especially when themed to bird wings or the like.

I feel the same! I don't see the reason to lower the seats at all? It kind of destroy the purpose of the wingrider. Ok, so I haven't been on one of the B&M versions. But to me a wing rider should be all about freedom and an unbstructed view in every direction, much like Furius Baco which succed in this aspect!

The reason for B&M to lower the seating has to do with the strength of the train? And in that aspect the B&M wingrider is a success since Furius Baco (with seats leveled with the track) suffers from bad vibrations. But the lowered seating at the same time destroys the meaning of having a wing rider. The wing rider to me is an upgrade from the invert where your feet are dangeling but the big bulky B&M spine above you block your view. On Furius Baco you got your feet dangeling and an unobstructed view above/below and right/left to you. B&M wing riders on the other hand got a big bulky spine to the side of you, kind of just changeing around the problem with the invert!

Oddly enough, B&M dive machines also have perfectly normal leveled seats.

I mean, swarm and x-flight look alright,
but a Wild Eagle does not fly with two buckets dangling from both wings.

 

[Taxi]

I like how there is that one support in the middle of the helix. That's going to make me dizzy. :drinking:

 

[Nick P]

Aren't the lower seats better for heart-lining, etc?

I would also like to add that without the lower seats, the keyhole head-chopper element would not of been possible. I'm sure the trains are barely making it through the keyhole with enough clearance as is. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[Antinos]

The lowered seats are closer to each coach's center of gravity compared to the Intamin model. This design difference might allow B&M's design to perform a bit more aggressively. As for roughness, it probably isn't because the seats themselves are lower, but instead might be because the seats are connected to the coach at different locations. Compare:

It appears that Baco's seats are on pillars, so to speak, but Wild Eagle's are mounted more behind and closer overall to the seat's centroid.


Don't take this as law of the land though, as I haven't studied mechanical vibrations yet and I'm only halfway through dynamics.

 

[rollermonkey]

I'm going to bet a nickel that the triangular form of the drop down also increases rigidity compared to Baco's square tubes.

 

[Hixee]

It appears that Baco's seats are on pillars, so to speak, but Wild Eagle's are mounted more behind and closer overall to the seat's centroid.


Don't take this as law of the land though, as I haven't studied mechanical vibrations yet and I'm only halfway through dynamics.

You're going to have to do some pretty advanced vibration classes before you start looking at stuff like this. Most of those classes are focused on linkage vibration/damping.

However, you're basically right. I think (I don't know, I don't have the inclination to actually figure this out) that one of the reasons is exactly as you said. If you were to measure the absolute distance from the centre of the track to the centre of mass of the two riders, the number for Baco would be much higher. As you say, the seats are mounted above those bars instead of level with them, meaning the seats are essentially further from the centre of the track (assumed to be the centre of the vibrations). As distance increases, the effects of vibrations increase etc (depending on damping in the beam). Which leads onto the fact that I also suspect the kink in the bar has something to do with it. Joins tend to improve damping (depending on how they're joined) as they absorb energy, so there could be something in the actual geometry of the connecting bar too. Baco's is straight, whereas the B&M ones have that kink in them.

ALL of that being said, I think it's also important not to forget that Intamin coasters (in my experience) aren't as smooth as B&M coasters. Even when they're new. I rode Rita in the opening season, and Hulk 7 years after it opened (both 2006) and Rita wasn't as smooth. I suspect something in the wheel assembly design, track tolerances etc that comes into play and is simply exacerbated in these wide trains. You can feel the B&M ones bouncing slightly, so...

Finally, let's not forget that Baco is a little bit more intense than any of these B&M coasters. Don't get me wrong, I think Baco (besides the launch) is ****, BUT it does launch to 83mph and then drop into a ditch. Baco is seriously fast. Gatekeeper is only 67mph (the fastest of the B&M models, except maybe the one in Asia, but RCDB didn't have the stats for that one yet), so in Intamin's defence, I'd like to see what would happen if one of these B&M trains hit a corner a 90mph. I bet they'd be pretty bouncy too.

 

[rcjp]

^ It is true that none of B&M's wingriders are as fast as furius baco. But i'm not sure if it is that much of a matter of speed as baco is very rough all the way through and it doesn't travel at 90 mph during all the course. Like you said, it's probably to do with the trains' design as well as the fact that, generally, B&Ms are smoother than Intamins.

 

[Hyde]

... ... ... So yeah ... ... test run ... ...

 

[ECG]

Station work is moving right along. Won't be much longer before those test runs...

 

[Screaming Coasters]

Bit of an ugly looking roller coaster, if I'm to be perfectly honest..

 

[Hyde]

Well anything is going to look ugly when you have trailers, dirt, and bulldozers sitting around. :razz:

I'd wait until after park opening and implementation of landscaping before passing judgement.

 

[Snoo]

Looking at the whole area now is just.. weird.

 

[rollermonkey]

I agree. I'm not sure why there seems to be so much extra space... Almost as if they took out extra things they didn't need to.

Maybe even some room for a new flat next year?

 

[bmac]

You guys didn't know? That's where the cattle pens are going to round all the people up

 

[Intricks]

Re: Cedar Point | "Gatekeeper" | B&M Wingrider

Apparently the start of the line will be towards the beach, with a cattle pen underneath the station at worst.

The 1st train should be arriving next week with the other two arriving after 2x2 weeks or something like that. So testing should start in about a couple weeks to a month or so.

 

[Hyde]

The station entrance will be facing the beach, with the queue heading towards the beach and splitting in between Troika and GateKeeper.

The area is definitely different with both Disaster Transport and Space Spiral. I wouldn't call it sparse or bare, but open.

For the last 23 years, we were used to this view - the large foot print of Disaster Transport, tree line, and Space Spiral.

In a way we are reverting back to 1985, when Avalanche Run (Disaster Transport before the transform) was newly built. Notice there was no landscaping, treeline, nor anything - just the sole roller coaster. This was in part to the site being parking lot before 1985.

The openness of GateKeeper vs. the prominent presence of Disaster Transport will definitely be a change. Better or worse? We'll see with the final product on opening day.

One thing I can tell you though is the view of the Dive Drop from approximately where the midway entrance will be is fantastic.