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Busch Gardens Williamsburg |"Verbolten"| Multi-Launch Zierer

Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

Blue Fire was an exception, it's not the rule to this sort of thing.

Blue Fire was a risk, and it's no surprise it was built at Europa... Zierer have only sold one of these before, five years ago now... What sort of a success does that make you think it was?

Also, Wicked is TINY compared to this... And hardly gets the ravest reviews from the people that bother to trek out to Mormon country for it.

I'm sorry, but, anyone that thinks this is a Zierer for any reason OTHER than Williamsburg have that weird thing against Intamin is an idiot. And going with what WILL be an inferior product (Blue Fire is inferior to Intamin Accelerators of a comparable size, like Storm Runner. Except the trains are AMAZING and make up for it. And Wicked is VASTLY inferior) just to spite Intamin... Well, cut off nose, own face etc.

This has got NOTHING to do with who can or can't make a piece of track drop, it's who does it to what standard. Arrow managed to build loops, are you telling me now GASM was as good as Dragon Khan is?
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

^ Gazza what you were saying I agree with.
However the thing is that Zierer are not making their rides just as good as intamins. For instance they may do better things than intamin (kids rides?), but is wicked better than superman escape? or storm runner? Wicked is still a good ride I imagine and alot of fun. Same thing with Blue Fire. its a great ride and is alot of fun and is a great success ..... however is it better than the intamin accelerators?
No its not.
So whatever this is going to be, I think the argument here (actually just mine) is that zierer will still do a good job and it will be a good coaster. In fact perhaps they will do a great job and it will be fantastic. However it just seems much more likely that no matter what zierer produce (totally awesome, average or complete crap) that in comparison Intamin probably wouldve made something better. If Zierer were making different sorts of coasters that were matching the likes of dragster, xcelerator, storm runner, superman escape etc etc then I think it wouldnt really matter what manufacturer made the ride.
However, lets be very honest, Zierer are not making coasters on the same quality levels as Intamin.
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

I honestly could care less about the manufacturer so long as this ride is smooth, doesnt make me contort in ways I shouldnt, doesnt eat my knees, and doesnt crap out on everyone every other minute.

Will it be as good as an Intamin Multi Launch of similar size? Possibly, because Ive heard complaints about CHunt being slow and not forceful as what you would normally get from an Intamin. Could this ride be utter crap? Again, possibly. Wont know til it opens and we ride it.

Now, Ill ask this again since it was ignored last time and I want a proper fact on this: Is it 100% confirmed that Verbolten getting a Drop Zone like Th13teen or is that still pure speculation?

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re:

Intricks said:
I honestly could care less
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Oh dear. Don't start that again. It's couldn't care less. If you “could care less” it means that you care at least a bit.
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

However the thing is that Zierer are not making their rides just as good as intamins. For instance they may do better things than intamin (kids rides?), but is wicked better than superman escape? or storm runner?
Click to expand...
No, but the point is, they have made stuff like this:
http://www.rcdb.com/m/8642.htm?p=0

Which pulls 3.7 Gs, and looks like a fairly solid ride system. It's even got high backed headrests, which says to me Zierer designed them to be launch capable.

I just dont see how it's that infeasible to use that ride system, with launches on it, and why it would be "bad". We know what the layout is going to be, so is there really any reason to say why this couldn't do the job?
Its not as if they are planning on launching a **** tivoli or something.


that in comparison Intamin probably would've made something better.
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They already built a ride like Verbolten, Th13teen...And it sucked.
They also did a multi launch coaster, Cheetah Hunt...And well, that was nothing special (to me) either.
..So the point of the "Intamin would be better" argument is.......?

Same thing with Blue Fire. its a great ride and is alot of fun and is a great success ..... however is it better than the intamin accelerators?
No its not.
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I reckon it looks much better to be honest.

Oh dear. Don't start that again. It's couldn't care less. If you “could care less” it means that you care at least a bit.
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Agreed. Think about it this way, Intricks.

A comparable pair of phrases:

-"I couldn't give a crap"

-"I could give a crap"

The 2nd one sounds stupid and pointless.
Now, lets apply this:

"I couldn't care less"

"I could care less"

See why you are wrong?
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

Ollie and Gazza, as interesting as the lesson in semantics is, you're missing the point that when Americans use "could care less", they're actually exercising their well renowned sarcasm ;)

As for the ride, I can see where Ben is coming from and I agree with him to a degree but no matter how much your hatred of a company, as a business decision there must still be a reason you are "sold" an multi-million dollar ride. Zierer must have demonstrated that they could accomplish what was required. They may even have beaten Mack or MS or Gerstlauer (who I have no doubt could also produce this ride) who Busch Williamsburg have no reason to turn down.

So they must have has something that impressed management.

But yeah, I do agree with Ben that generally if you're a big company looking for a "professional" launch coaster then Intamin are first port of call.
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

Ollie and Gazza, thanks for the grammar lesson, but honestly, no f*cks were given ;3

I had another point to this post, but it was lost in transition :lol: Something about agreeing with and then making some bit of discussion attempt.

Oh! While I agree with most of what has been said, why is there such a god awful discussion between why they went with Zierer? Intamin is expensive while Zierer may not be as much.

Solution found?

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re:

Intricks said:
Oh! While I agree with most of what has been said, why is there such a god awful discussion between why they went with Zierer? Intamin is expensive while Zierer may not be as much.
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I don't think so. Busch Williamsburg is not a park where you every think "they cut corners there...". The cheapest option (if they were going for that) would surely have been to keep maintaining BBW and buy in a little Eurofighter/Rage clone to stick in a spare plot of land.

No, they've gone to "effort" to design an immersive ride experience and if it had called for an extra $1 million to go with tried and tested Intamin, then the budget could have been found.

Of course, they may just be penny pinching, but I just get the feeling that Busch know the meaning of value over a long period of time. They look for a good investment, which you can only usually get from a bigger name. Sadly, I think Intamin suck for the most part so can see why they wouldn't pick them :p
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

CHunt is really great in its own right. Sure, it's not an intense thill machine, but it's hands down the best mid-range coaster I've ever ridden. Just throwing that out there.

I personally think this is designed to be even LESS thrilling than CHunt, as most of this ride will focused on the event building...I have confidence that Zierer can manage to build a adequate track to take this to and from the event building and make a drop into the Rhine. It won't be amazing, but based on their track shaping skills it should be fine.
 
Re:

Intricks said:
Premier, Intamin and Zierer cause no other manufacturers have really delved into it cause one launch is all that was needed until Speed: The Ride, Maverick and later on Wicked?

Switching between the hideouts'...
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You forgot Mack Rides, They make launch coasters, i agree they should have gone for Intamin But this should still be good.
 
Re: Re: Re:

furie said:
Intricks said:
Oh! While I agree with most of what has been said, why is there such a god awful discussion between why they went with Zierer? Intamin is expensive while Zierer may not be as much.
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I don't think so. Busch Williamsburg is not a park where you every think "they cut corners there...". The cheapest option (if they were going for that) would surely have been to keep maintaining BBW and buy in a little Eurofighter/Rage clone to stick in a spare plot of land.

No, they've gone to "effort" to design an immersive ride experience and if it had called for an extra $1 million to go with tried and tested Intamin, then the budget could have been found.

Of course, they may just be penny pinching, but I just get the feeling that Busch know the meaning of value over a long period of time. They look for a good investment, which you can only usually get from a bigger name. Sadly, I think Intamin suck for the most part so can see why they wouldn't pick them :p
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You missunderstood. Im saying this, Intamin building this ride cost X while Zierer cost Y. They could have had a budget to be within, and erecting a building, digging that giant hole for said building, getting the "first of its kind" element working, issues from building/operating Mach Tower, themeing for both rides and whatever else is needed, may have hit their budget cost (note Im excluding all electrical work going in, booths being erected/renovated nearby, getting all the new souveniers ready and whatnot (plus designing them))...or Intamin could have said no when they were dealing with the backlash from Th13teen. Honestly dont know, couldnt give any less of care over it.

I have no idea how much Zierer cost, but Intamin can be pretty pricey and that is a fact. If they have to be within budget, then they have to cut back from somewhere. Since BGE isnt a parking lot theme park, and cares about the theme for rides, then they looked at all available options and got the proper facts before making a decision.

If you want Product A but it cost a lot, why not get Product B when it promises the same reliability, enjoyment for everyone, but cost less than Product A.

As to ry, I never included mack because Im not sure if they have a multi-launch zone coaster or if they are all single launch zones.

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

^ Oh sorry, No ime not sure they do. But if a Customer asked so they Probly would.
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

^^You're still talking about cutting corners essentially. If costs were the contributing factor at BGE, we'd see a giant SLC instead of Alpengeist, or world's biggest Eurofighter where Griffon stands now.

It's not a budgeting issue; it's well-known that BGE don't want to deal with Intamin, which is frankly ridiculous when they obviously want a product that Intamin can deliver.

I do agree with Furie though in that other companies would be capable of a decent multi-launch coaster, so there must be something that Zierer could offer to make BGE go for them over someone else (taking Intmain out of the equation obviously). That's not to say I think this is going to be any good because I honestly don't know.

Hopefully we'll end up with a Blue Fire type "one off" experience and not a version of Wicked, which looks **** ing awful.

Oh, and there's no "backlash" to Thirteen as far as Intamin is concerned as far as I'm aware. It delivered exactly what Alton wanted; a world's first element (which incidentally is never the part of the ride that gets slated). The backlash, if that's what you want to call it, is purely against Alton for marketing it completely wrong.
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

But Gavin, I don't think it's cutting corners when you're at the level of a ride being big and expensive, no matter who builds it.... Say if it was $19 Mil for a Zierer or $20 mil for the Intamin, yeah one option is cheaper, but it still is costing a lot, and overall a bit more of an effort than an SLC.
And while Busch do things quite well, you'd be silly not to take a $1 mil or whatever saving if it wasn't going to impact the final product.

Or it could be as simple as the Zierer delivering more track length than the others could in budget.
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

Thats cause it isnt cutting corners, it is being financially smart in horrible economic times. Yes, I can easily say that Zierer could be considered a cheap knock-off from Intamin, but if it gives an amazing ride, has no issues and has people getting off with a smile, then who cares WHO makes the damn ride. Be glad they are even adding a ride in.

Gods, they made a choice you dont agree with, whatever will happen in the coaster community now?

:eyeroll:

Switching between the hideouts'...
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

^So if a park decides to put in an SLC and we don't know the layout yet it would make sense to say something like......

"Oh, well maybe this will give an amazing ride. Since it hasn't gotten built yet I CAN SAY ANYTHING I WANT BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW YET!"

That doesn't make much sense does it? Since we know that SLC's are generally crap, then we can assume this hypothetical one would be crap as well, and that's a fair opinion.

Now lets transfer that to this situation. Based on the fact that Zierer barely has a presence in the 'thrill' industry, and their coasters generally aren't regarded as anything good, it's safe to assume that this will be inferior quality to an Intamin made product. Of course, that's all opinion, and it's fine to have your opinion as well. But to give the impression that, say, Gavin's opinion is overblown, is pretty ridiculous.
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

Oi, I can explain why they're not going with Intamin in one easy sentence: They don't like them.

They had them build Escape From Pompei, but when that had issues, intamin didn't take care of the problem like they'd hope. One thing lead to another and now they don't want to bother with them.

Why did they get a drop tower that wasn't intamin? They don't like them.

Why didn't they go with intamin with this project? They don't like them.

/two cents
 
Re: "Unknown" Multi-Launch Zierer thing for BGWilliamsburg

I know how this can all be solved!
BGE should just announce the dam ride. its the middle of september far out.
I still dont know where the rumors are coming from that it will be zierer.
Has the park confirmed this? For all I know, it could be a bloody B&M. And whats with the rumor that it will have a drop like thirteen? Seems like just another rumor I dont see where its all coming from. BGE just need to announce this dam ride.
 
Re:

Intricks said:
Thats cause it isnt cutting corners, it is being financially smart in horrible economic times.
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You're still missing the point that the cheapest course of action (in horrible economic times) was to maintain BBW.

BGW clearly had a vision for a new ride in that area. They had a concept for a replacement and will have started off without any real budget. The budget will have grown with the quotes they got in. Yeah, there's probably an upper limit, but it's not like there's a guy there in accounts going "I said £17 million, and the Intamin quote comes in at $17 million and $1 - you have to go with the cheaper option". ;)

Intricks said:
Yes, I can easily say that Zierer could be considered a cheap knock-off from Intamin, but if it gives an amazing ride, has no issues and has people getting off with a smile, then who cares WHO makes the damn ride. Be glad they are even adding a ride in.

Gods, they made a choice you dont agree with, whatever will happen in the coaster community now?
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The problem is, that Zierer give no reason for us to believe that will be the case. Actually, I don't believe Intamin give reason for us to believe it will be anything great either, but that's a different argument ;)

When looking at things, you have to look at track record/history to project possible outcomes. It's human nature. Zierer just don't have enough there for us to project a "great coaster".

Of course it doesn't mean it won't be, just that it's unlikely based on the data we have. It also seems an odd choice when there are a lot of companies with a proven track record for producing this kind of ride.

It's a bit like if next year Jenson Button signed for a new F1 car from Kia, with a GM engine. He went to them because "the car was cheaper to make so they could pay me more". Yet what you have is a company that can certainly make cars, but have no experience in the F1 arena and what you're getting is essentially a prototype into a market that is dominated by companies who have been doing that for years and years.

There's no reason to assume they'll produce an awful, uncompetitive car, but there's a damn good chance Button will be coming a long way down the standings. Of course, Kia may have a brand new aerofoil design that will make them superb, we don't know just yet. It's just based on what we currently know, things don't look great.

And do you know what, a whiny and moaning as we are as enthusiasts, we're often pretty good at making a call on whether a coaster will be good or not (this being very different to popular of course :p )
 
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