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Alton Towers | Nemesis Reborn | B&M Retrack | 2024

I wouldn't be too concerned about losing the OG trains. Vests require quite a bit more horizontal space which results in a larger clearance envelope. They would need to reevaluate the clearance envelope for the entire ride path and likely make adjustments in a few places. If they do buy new trains, I'm sure they'll be according to the OG design. B&M clearly still offers them as shown by Monster at Grona Lund.
 
Jared said:
I would assume alongside the retrack they'll purchase new trains. I can't imagine they'd want to keep the same 27-year-old trains on the new track. They bought new trains when they retracked Colossos at Heide Park.
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I think they just refurbished the Colossos trains didn't they?

I'd be surprised to see new trains, I'm sure every piece in those things will be replaceable, so they have unlimited life and it wouldn't really improve the ride if they put new trains on.
 
Peet said:
I think they just refurbished the Colossos trains didn't they?

I'd be surprised to see new trains, I'm sure every piece in those things will be replaceable, so they have unlimited life and it wouldn't really improve the ride if they put new trains on.
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Not from my understanding. The lap bars were changed from the amazing T-Bars to the newer Intamin full lap bar. Plus the outer shells were completely changed, far more than a standard refurb. Pretty sure I saw it stated on a documentary I watched about it that the trains were new too.

Whilst I get that most trains are fully replaceable, surely it would be more cost effective in the long run to replace them as new at the same time as the track, with parts now also being sand filled, that could slightly effect the rides speed and train vibrations etc. I’m no expert, but from a logistical standpoint it would make sense.
 
I've been thinking... With Nemesis about to undergo this rebuild treatment, I wonder how long it will be before Oblivion is in the same position; with the park torn between removing it and rebuilding it? It's only 4 years younger than Nemesis, yet cycles trains at a faster rate. It's got to be pretty close to the end of it's service life, surely? But I fear that Merlin might not give Oblivion this treatment and instead opt for the bulldozer.
 
CrashCoaster said:
I've been thinking... With Nemesis about to undergo this rebuild treatment, I wonder how long it will be before Oblivion is in the same position; with the park torn between removing it and rebuilding it? It's only 4 years younger than Nemesis, yet cycles trains at a faster rate. It's got to be pretty close to the end of it's service life, surely? But I fear that Merlin might not give Oblivion this treatment and instead opt for the bulldozer.
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I would prefer completely redoing it, upgrading the trains and giving it a better layout after the drop. New and improved ride on a budget. Surely Merlin would like that.
 
Too close to the park boundary for noise...they have had issues in that area in the past.
God bless the Ropers.
 
CrashCoaster said:
I've been thinking... With Nemesis about to undergo this rebuild treatment, I wonder how long it will be before Oblivion is in the same position; with the park torn between removing it and rebuilding it? It's only 4 years younger than Nemesis, yet cycles trains at a faster rate. It's got to be pretty close to the end of it's service life, surely? But I fear that Merlin might not give Oblivion this treatment and instead opt for the bulldozer.
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I wonder how much Nemesis' situation has been accelerated by the location though? Yes, Oblivion has the tunnel, but I imagine that being in a pit has brought more maintenance challenges with Nemesis in comparison.

We're in a bit of unchartered territory with B&Ms.
Hulk was retracked and Duelling Dragons demolished, and with Universal's operating hours, they were said to be amongst the B&Ms with the most operational running time in the world.
But we don't know what the case is with them after 30-40 years of seasonally running. Is this something we're going to be seeing more of? Is Nemesis a once off because it's a crown jewel of Towers that needs work because of location?

Then of course, considering Oblivion particularly, it is the first Dive Machine, meaning there's no precedent set for them.

Given the number of older steel coasters that still run in the world, I'd be a little worried if we're seeing more modern rides - especially top tier rides like B&Ms - only having a 30 odd year life span.



And if we ignore all that and consider Oblivion just in its own right. Replacing track in that tunnel has to be a logistical nightmare right? The rest is easy, but the tunnel? Damn. It feels like one of less popular rides on park, even being next to one of the most popular rides. But then if they rip it out, what could replace it? It's in a bad location with regards to the locals, and there's not a lot of space really. Certainly something could go there, but you'd be looking at another Alton Towers Creative Masterclass. I imagine it would not be as easy as it sounds.
 
The very first images in the Image report in the official planning documents seem to indicate that the ride's station building will receive some attention in addition to the replacement of the track and supports.
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JoshC. said:
I wonder how much Nemesis' situation has been accelerated by the location though? Yes, Oblivion has the tunnel, but I imagine that being in a pit has brought more maintenance challenges with Nemesis in comparison.

We're in a bit of unchartered territory with B&Ms.
Hulk was retracked and Duelling Dragons demolished, and with Universal's operating hours, they were said to be amongst the B&Ms with the most operational running time in the world.
But we don't know what the case is with them after 30-40 years of seasonally running. Is this something we're going to be seeing more of? Is Nemesis a once off because it's a crown jewel of Towers that needs work because of location?

Then of course, considering Oblivion particularly, it is the first Dive Machine, meaning there's no precedent set for them.

Given the number of older steel coasters that still run in the world, I'd be a little worried if we're seeing more modern rides - especially top tier rides like B&Ms - only having a 30 odd year life span.



And if we ignore all that and consider Oblivion just in its own right. Replacing track in that tunnel has to be a logistical nightmare right? The rest is easy, but the tunnel? Damn. It feels like one of less popular rides on park, even being next to one of the most popular rides. But then if they rip it out, what could replace it? It's in a bad location with regards to the locals, and there's not a lot of space really. Certainly something could go there, but you'd be looking at another Alton Towers Creative Masterclass. I imagine it would not be as easy as it sounds.
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to be honest i doubt oblivion will be removed any time soon, much like nemesis it has become a bit of a staple of the park, and since it is still decently popular, has a very high rider throughput and is generally in a bit of an awkward location to build anything else in its place. i think its got a pretty solid future but it is due for a refurbishment as the trains especially are starting to show their age
 
I can't imagine Oblivions track being put under anywhere near the same levels of stress Nemesis track is put under during a ride cycle?

Plus the Dive Machine track is huge in comparison to invert track, so it should be able to deal with the stress levels better?

From having a quick look, I don't believe Janfusun Fancyworld have a long Off season like Alton Towers do, so if we see G5 either closing or needing a retrack anytime soon then we can assume Oblivion won't be too far behind it.
 
I know I'm in the miniority amongst the community here but I'd much rather the vest restrainsts than the hard plastic over the shoulder restraints. I really hate having to try to keep my head in the middle to avoid getting boxed about the ears.
 
spicy said:
I can't imagine Oblivions track being put under anywhere near the same levels of stress Nemesis track is put under during a ride cycle?

Plus the Dive Machine track is huge in comparison to invert track, so it should be able to deal with the stress levels better?

From having a quick look, I don't believe Janfusun Fancyworld have a long Off season like Alton Towers do, so if we see G5 either closing or needing a retrack anytime soon then we can assume Oblivion won't be too far behind it.
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On that, (and this is probably more a question for the CF engineers here) would the higher elevation of that variant lead to more stress over time? Or would the amount of 'flex' from the longer supports actually mean less stress on the track?

Oblivion is fairly low to the ground at key moments of higher forces so I would assume vibrates and flexes much less than G5.
 
^ Interesting point, I would assume Oblivions smaller supports are a positive but as you say potentially less flex so could be causing more stress.

Munchy Road Hippopotamus said:
I know I'm in the miniority amongst the community here but I'd much rather the vest restrainsts than the hard plastic over the shoulder restraints. I really hate having to try to keep my head in the middle to avoid getting boxed about the ears.
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I would have thought there is no chance of Nemesis receiving the new trains with vest restraints. Look at the guy far right and you can see how wide these new trains are. Nemesis is already on the limits of the clearance needed.

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Nicky Borrill said:
On that, (and this is probably more a question for the CF engineers here) would the higher elevation of that variant lead to more stress over time? Or would the amount of 'flex' from the longer supports actually mean less stress on the track?

Oblivion is fairly low to the ground at key moments of higher forces so I would assume vibrates and flexes much less than G5.
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Nearly all steel coasters are contractually designed to operate for a minimum amount of time, which is typically in the neighborhood of 20 years. This doesn't mean that a ride needs to be ripped out after those 20 years. It just means that it might need to be inspected a little more often. However, as long as there is not any concerning degradation, the ride can continue to operate. Hence, why we have plenty of steel coasters that are 20+ years old. It is also worth noting that it is usually designed for 20 years worth of fully-loaded cycles, which assumes the ride is operating at its maximum capacity for the equivalent of 20 operating seasons. We all know this is not realistic. For one, parks rarely hit the theoretical capacity during operations regardless of the ride's popularity. For two, parks will keep a train or two in the maintenance bay during less popular hours. And lastly, rides become less popular over time so they don't get dispatched as often or they will run half empty.

That being said, Oblivion is not a very dynamic ride. It doesn't see the same stress that Nemesis does. The only area of concern that I would have is at the bottom of the first drop. However, I'd be more concerned about the footer/foundation than the track. When track is bolted directly to the foundation in lower areas like the bottom of a first drop, there is not much forgiveness. The vibration and force imposed by the train onto the track is passed directly into the footer. Over time, that can cause the footer to deteriorate at a faster rate. When there is a support column between the track and the footer, there is more opportunity for that force to dissipate before it reaches the footer.

So, I would be really surprised if Oblivion needed any sort of retracking any time soon. If anything, it might need some rework at the footer/foundation level in the tunnel.
 
What was it Dolores Umbridge said about 'Progress for progress' sake must be avoided'?

Probably just my natural pessimism and mortal fear of change, but I'm not happy. I shall be riding the hell out of Nemesis this year, if anyone wants to join me :p
 
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