Vekoma criticism

[SaiyanHajime]

^ And in all other cases, such as Amusement Parks who want a smooth ride that delivers, Vekoma fails! :razz:

I'd be really interested to know if parks actually care about rider comfort. How many guests actually complain about your average SLC, for example? I think many of the GP confuse uncomfortable-ness with thrilling-ness and could not tell an SLC apart from a B&M invert, unless they rode them on the same day.

But I would imagine Vekoma are not only a not less reliable than B&M, but that their life expectancy is way lower.

Tim's point is that Disney are involved with the design and so construction, modify and take control of their rides far, far, far more, not only creatively but technically as well, so Vekoma's reliability faults are lower.

 

[madhjsp]

I'd be really interested to know if parks actually care about rider comfort.

Sure they do. Why do you think Busch Gardens took down Drachen Fire, for instance? Why does a park with more money tend to invest in B&M or Intamin? Reliability is a large part if it, yes, but if that were it, then would Intamin be as big as it is? Say what you will about Intamin, but after B&M, it's probably the second-most comfortable steel coaster manufacturer out there on a consistency basis.

How many guests actually complain about your average SLC, for example? I think many of the GP confuse uncomfortable-ness with thrilling-ness and could not tell an SLC apart from a B&M invert, unless they rode them on the same day.

Come on, you have to give people a little more credit than that. If a ride bashes your head from side to side against the restraints, you're going to come off of it knowing it was uncomfortable, enthusiast or not. The thing is, I think most people are willing to put up with that (to a degree) in the case of an SLC or something because they also consider the ride to be thrilling and unique. They also probably consider it to be one of the park's premier rides, and most of the time they'd be right. But if you were to put a B&M invert and an SLC in the same park, you can bet that the Beemer would be more popular. People can definitely tell the difference.

 

[OfficialAltonTowers]

Hit the nail on the head, as i said before the only reason a theme park would choose a Vekoma over a B&M or an Intamin is Cost.

The only reason?
You wanna take into account that Disney- a company that spends upwards of 150 million dollars on single attractions -uses Vekoma for their rollercoaster hardware and reconsider that fact?

Vekoma is one of the few companies who are willing to step away from their standard designs and adopt an entirely new hardware system just for a single project.

That makes them very appealing to the big-budget park designers who want creative control over every aspect of an attraction, even the track gauge and construction

yes but disney relies heavily on theming and to use to word lightly disney, disneyfies everything it comes into contact with, So the ride dosnt have to be particularly good (expedition everest for example) but is made up by the scenery and the way it looks, also disney rides are made for a certain age range, and to fair when i was ten and still liked micky mouse i didnt realy care about roughness, as most younsters dont, i admit that i didnt take into account disney when i wrote that comment, but it is still a vilid point, a standard b&m coaster will cost upward of £5mil a standard Intamin coaster will cost upward of £3mil, a standard vekoma will only cost the consumer upward of £700,000 wich isnt allot for a rollercoaster, i think that you will find that i have proven my point. so what if disney has spent allot of money (by the way no where near $150mil) on vekoma rides, but for the most part bar the odd occurance vekomas are cheap, easily available, off the shelf coasters and nine times out of ten a park with more money will go for a B&M or Intamin.

 

[Gavin]

^Just out of curiosity, which orifice are you pulling those numbers from?

I'm assuming $700,000 would be for a Vekoma kiddy coaster/roller skater? If so, then it's hardly fair to compare those prices to something from B&M, who only make much larger scale rides.

 

[T0M]

I'm eager to know where the figure of £28,000,000 for Jubilee Odyssey at Fantasy Island (UK) has come from, it's banded about quite a bit.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I'd be really interested to know if parks actually care about rider comfort.

Sure they do. Why do you think Busch Gardens took down Drachen Fire, for instance? Why does a park with more money tend to invest in B&M or Intamin? Reliability is a large part if it, yes, but if that were it, then would Intamin be as big as it is? Say what you will about Intamin, but after B&M, it's probably the second-most comfortable steel coaster manufacturer out there on a consistency basis.

How many guests actually complain about your average SLC, for example? I think many of the GP confuse uncomfortable-ness with thrilling-ness and could not tell an SLC apart from a B&M invert, unless they rode them on the same day.

Come on, you have to give people a little more credit than that. If a ride bashes your head from side to side against the restraints, you're going to come off of it knowing it was uncomfortable, enthusiast or not. The thing is, I think most people are willing to put up with that (to a degree) in the case of an SLC or something because they also consider the ride to be thrilling and unique. They also probably consider it to be one of the park's premier rides, and most of the time they'd be right. But if you were to put a B&M invert and an SLC in the same park, you can bet that the Beemer would be more popular. People can definitely tell the difference.

I think Busch are rather unique in the theme park industry. The fact that they have a weird stalker obsession with B&M shows this.

Maybe you're right, but I dunno. Busch ARE odd.

 

[Hyde]

I'd be really interested to know if parks actually care about rider comfort. How many guests actually complain about your average SLC, for example? I think many of the GP confuse uncomfortable-ness with thrilling-ness and could not tell an SLC apart from a B&M invert, unless they rode them on the same day.

That's a good question, and I'd say more GP than you'd expect. Working Guest Services at CP, we would often get comments on how smooth select rides were, such as Raptor and MF. Maybe we don't give the GP too much credit beyond knowing the color of the ride they are on. :razz:

 

[suryavl]

Re:

Vekoma is one of the few companies who are willing to step away from their standard designs and adopt an entirely new hardware system just for a single project.

That makes them very appealing to the big-budget park designers who want creative control over every aspect of an attraction, even the track gauge and construction

Hmmm, I think we can safely say Intamin has done this too on multiple occasions.

I think Disney might be choosing Vekoma for other reasons
- The money they save on the ride itself, can be invested in more themeing, their hallmark.
- They don't aim to have the best roller coasters. The underlying ride system is of less importance than the themeing and overall experience, they don't care if the ride is a bit rougher, as long as it's family friendly.

I for one don't agree with the statement that Vekomas layouts are good. Their loopers are an uninspired chain of loops with often some dead moments to connect from one loop to another. Their non looping rides are just an uninspired chain of turns that don't evoke excitement. Just look at the human track of Battlestar Galactica. It just meanders around a bit, but nothing happens really.

 

[caffeine_demon]

Oooh - old topic resurrection, but whilst we're on, here's my thoughts. - I don't think they're all that bad

Theming does not make a bad ride good though (Space mountain M2 anyone?)


turns out I've ridden about 40 vekomas
2 mine trains - colorado express and big thunder mountain in dlp - colorado is excelent, and BTM is very good
expedition everest - great family ride
casey jr - nice for kids
ben 10
alton mouse (Which i'll be riding again in idlewild after uslive)
6 indoor ones -
rock n rollercoaster - paris and orlando versions - great fun rides
temple of the night hawk - meh, but not rough
x:nwo - urgh
Space mountain m2 - dlp - horrible
vogel rok - can't remember much about it

2 boomerangs - wipeout being smoother than the one at karolinelund, which whilst I got a bit of an earbashing, I'd have probably ridden again, and stunt fall which I actually didn't find as thrilling as wipeout (I'm weird!)
7 "corkscrew" style - special mentions to wirbelwind at fort fun and big loop at heide park for not being as rough as expected, and a mention for super wirbel at holiday park, python at efteling and flamingoland corkscrew for being horrible.
4 slcs - Infusion - very rough, but nice theming in front seat
mp xpress - urgh
Kumali - ok
jubilee odysee - really liked it
booster bike and velocity - prefered BB, velocity is a bit rough


9 "regular" junior coasters - which can be quite fun for junior coasters
kvasten(grona) and jimmy neutron at movie park - again , ok for junior rides

 

[Snoo]

Don't worry, you'll get your share once you're here.

 

[rollermonkey]

After being a member of these and other boards for a few months now, I've noticed that Vekomas, particularly SLCs, are generally heavily criticised among enthusiasts.

It seems to me that the problem is with the parks and the designers, not Vekoma.

Yes, they are not exactly silky smooth, but they are capable of climbing to great height and achieving great speed. It seems to me that anyone who purchases or designs one lacks ambition and ideas.

No.

The rides suck, and it isn't just the lack of originality. Vekoma aims to make budget priced coasters, and they do it by cutting corners.

That comes out in the lack of original designs as well as the crappy ride experience. Plus, they can have horrible bouts of down time from poorly executed programming. (Deja Vu much? Discussions with the mechs at Silverwood told me that while it's better, it's still not where it should be.)

Every time I get on an SLC now, I check something before I sit down: How much clearance between the unstop wheels and the track.

Every one is different, Blackout at Suzuka Circuit had about an inch of clearance. I could get the meaty part of my palm between the wheel and the track. A horribly rough ride results from such a poorly built train. A few hours away, F2 at Nasu Highlands, I couldn't get the tip of my pinky in between the wheel and the track. It's the smoothest SLC I've ever been on.

Vekoma has HORRIBLE QA standards within its product lines. Every SLC should ride almost exactly the same, but they aren't even close. (And I'm not talking about whether there's a helix or not.)

Every Boomerang should ride the same, again, some are fine, some make you wish that you'd stayed home.

They've gone bankrupt how many times? At least three times since I've been paying attention.

There are several things wrong at Vekoma, and it isn't just that they make cookie cutter coasters.

 

[JJLehto]

I hate em.

Same reasons as arrows:
. Feels like they give you brain trauma
. Weird, often poor layouts

The latter is more prominent on Arrow coasters, they look like the stuff I designed on RTC when I was in middle school, long straights with awkward turns and layouts that tend to be slow.
What's more important is the roughness, we all know they hurt. Maybe some are OK with that, but I hate it.

It's funny because I like wooden coasters, I mean the traditional ones that shake you up a bit...the difference is they don't have OTSR's that bash your head!
Whenever I see that Vekoma, (or Arrow) track style I brace myself.
Thank goodness for B&M and Intamin!

So yeah, I don't like Vekoma. You are right though, part of it is the parks buying the same ride. There are like 900 boomerangs and "standard" SLCs. That of course can't be held against the company itself, after all how many B&M 7 Inversion loopers with a pretty similar layout are out there?

 

[furie]

Haha, was just about to go on about the hunting and shunting, then it reminded me of this little ditty I made a few years back

http://www.broadswordsnbunnies.co.uk/ih ... goland.mp3

 

[tepr]

That's... brilliant!

 

[IntaminToWin]

Am I the only person here that likes SLCs? In theory, I should hate them, but the ones I have been on seem to have the "right" amount of roughness in them.

 

[Snoo]

It would seem so. I've been on the right amount to hate them insanely.

 

[andrus]

The SLC at Heide Park is actually very enjoyable! The rest of the SLCs I've been on can go and die.. >< Vekoma is a mixed bag really. They have some really really good rides! Here I'm talking of Colorado Adventure and the GIBs (only been on the one at SFNE though). Then they got A LOT of crap too, like every other SLC except the one a HP, most of the "corkscrews" etc.

 

[JJLehto]

Am I the only person here that likes SLCs? In theory, I should hate them, but the ones I have been on seem to have the "right" amount of roughness in them.

Yeah probably lol

I guess I can only speak for me, not been on many but that they were pretty painful.
Again, not rough but painful.
They were still fun...but I would not wait long at all for one...few minutes and only if theres really nothing to do.

 

[caffeine_demon]

Am I the only person here that likes SLCs? In theory, I should hate them, but the ones I have been on seem to have the "right" amount of roughness in them.

you need to go on the one at six flags new england!!

 

[oriolat2]

Am I the only person here that likes SLCs? In theory, I should hate them, but the ones I have been on seem to have the "right" amount of roughness in them.

Yeah probably lol

I guess I can only speak for me, not been on many but that they were pretty painful.
Again, not rough but painful.
They were still fun...but I would not wait long at all for one...few minutes and only if theres really nothing to do.

I have to admit that the SLC layout is really good. It's very compact, packs 5 different inversions with a helix, a banked hill and a couple of turns. And SLC have decent capacity. What else can you ask for?

Cheap rides like that allow smaller parks to make more money for future, better quality rides.