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USJ | Flying Dinosaur | B&M Flying Coaster

Chris Brown

Mr CoasterForce 2016
Staff member
Social Media Team
Hoping this will buck the trend and we'll start to see more flyers built. I'm interested to see how well this will be themed, the surrounding area doesn't look particularly Jurassic like? Or is this going to be a new area itself?
 

tomahawk

Moderator
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I'm thinking we may see similar trains to Tatsu in regards to theming. Layout looks pretty incredible.

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Casio

Member
Lofty said:
I think in order of elements, it seems: drop, 540º Roll (or whatever it's called now, RCDB has it as an 'inline twist' and 'fly to lie'), Immelmann (lie to fly or half loop maybe), pretzel loop, small airtime hill, wingover, helix into drop, inline twist, breaks.

Making a total of 7 'inversions', so to speak, being the roll (2), Immelmann (1), Pretzel Loop (2), Wingover (1), Inline (1). Pretty nice layout.
I think the 540º roll is 1.5 inversions, and the 'Immelmann' (More a half-loop or a Raven Turn) is 0.5, making it up to 2 inversions for a total of 6 so far. The layout does looks absolutely fantastic.
 

Ben

Social Media Team
Social Media Team
This can literally get in my face.

Like I'm SO excited for this.

Good Flyers are amazing <3
 

Ben

Social Media Team
Social Media Team
This can literally get in my face.

Like I'm SO excited for this.

Good Flyers are amazing <3
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
Staff member
Moderator
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My biggest excitement for this ride is that it shows you can build a large scale, custom Flyer layout without the need for large topography, ala Tatsu:

 

Ben

Social Media Team
Social Media Team
^To be fair, apart from the pretzel loop, Tatsu is all on level, so would easily fit on flat land.

Not much to really prove.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
Staff member
Moderator
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^ True, however the hill of Samurai Summit does allow for the Pretzel Loop in the layout. While the ride is only 170 ft. tall, there is a total elevation change of 263 ft.

This is quite a significant elevation change; Kings Island's Banshee also sits on a topographic slant and is similar in height (167 ft.) to Tatsu, yet only experiences 208 ft. in total elevation change.

Suffice it to say, I am pleased to see a large B&M custom flyer built on truly flat land.
 

Ben

Social Media Team
Social Media Team
Hyde said:
^ True, however the hill of Samurai Summit does allow for the Pretzel Loop in the layout. While the ride is only 170 ft. tall, there is a total elevation change of 263 ft.
Well, that's just not true.

The drop is 111ft and the top of the 124ft tall Pretzel Loop is higher than the bottom of the drop.

I'd imagine the height of 170ft is the elevation difference - like how Nemesis' is listed as 104ft

Because, 263ft...? No.
 

CanobieFan

Active Member
Just for fun, I found an old press release from Tatsu on RRC... And, well....

Magic Mountain's Tatsu
Speed: 62 mph
Height: 170 feet

Elevation change: 263 feet

Track length: 3,602 feet
First drop: 111 feet
Inversions: 4
124-foot pretzel loop
103-foot flat spin
96-foot-tall zero-gravity roll
360-degree in-line roll over Revolution ride
Ride time: 3 minutes
Capacity: 1,600 riders per hour
Now that's not to say the park didn't BS the number.... But it was a 'fact' given out.
 

Lofty

Social Media Team
Staff member
Social Media Team
Re: USJ | Flying Dinosaur | B&M Flying Coaster

Casio said:
Lofty said:
I think in order of elements, it seems: drop, 540º Roll (or whatever it's called now, RCDB has it as an 'inline twist' and 'fly to lie'), Immelmann (lie to fly or half loop maybe), pretzel loop, small airtime hill, wingover, helix into drop, inline twist, breaks.

Making a total of 7 'inversions', so to speak, being the roll (2), Immelmann (1), Pretzel Loop (2), Wingover (1), Inline (1). Pretty nice layout.
I think the 540º roll is 1.5 inversions, and the 'Immelmann' (More a half-loop or a Raven Turn) is 0.5, making it up to 2 inversions for a total of 6 so far. The layout does looks absolutely fantastic.
Oh **** off. There's not a 'half inversion', it's one or the other, inversion or no inversion.

In terms of what the track actually does, they could both be classed as inversions as I've stated.


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tomahawk

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
With flyers, I do think half inversions count if you stay in one position instead of going full. Only other ride type that does it would be 4d, and they have the half half which is train rotate and track does have flip other direction to give feeling of full inversion when track has only done half. Flyers get away with that too imo.

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Ben

Social Media Team
Social Media Team
Re Tatsu...

Yeah you can see just by looking at it that's not true.

If it were true the top of the Pretzel would need to be nearly 30ft lower than the bottom of the drop, and it isn't.
 

Casio

Member
Lofty said:
Casio said:
Lofty said:
I think in order of elements, it seems: drop, 540º Roll (or whatever it's called now, RCDB has it as an 'inline twist' and 'fly to lie'), Immelmann (lie to fly or half loop maybe), pretzel loop, small airtime hill, wingover, helix into drop, inline twist, breaks.

Making a total of 7 'inversions', so to speak, being the roll (2), Immelmann (1), Pretzel Loop (2), Wingover (1), Inline (1). Pretty nice layout.
I think the 540º roll is 1.5 inversions, and the 'Immelmann' (More a half-loop or a Raven Turn) is 0.5, making it up to 2 inversions for a total of 6 so far. The layout does looks absolutely fantastic.
Oh **** off. There's not a 'half inversion', it's one or the other, inversion or no inversion.

In terms of what the track actually does, they could both be classed as inversions as I've stated.


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Why count the 540º roll as two inversions then? If a half inversion counts the same as a full inversion then why wouldn't it be three? Or just count it as one since it's only one element? X2 has two raven turns and two fly-to-lies, but makes a total of two, not four, inversions since each only turns the train 180º. If a flyer train went out of the station and did a half-loop (ie. an inverted version of the 'immelmann' on this), it wouldn't be able to return to the station without inverting another 180º - I don't think it would be fair to label two half-loops as two separate inversions.
 

JoshC.

Active Member
I've always thought that an inversion is (or at least should be) classified as when you 'invert'/twist over 135 degrees from the neutral position; since that is when you are closer to being 'upside down' than upright. Of course, it's a bit fuzzier on a flyer, but the logic can still be applied to the track.

So, a 540 degree turn should be 2 inversions by that logic, since you invert past the 135-degree-from-neutral position twice. Seems simple to me, and a lot better than counting half-inversions or anything like that.
 

Lofty

Social Media Team
Staff member
Social Media Team
Re: USJ | Flying Dinosaur | B&M Flying Coaster

^ Thank you, at least another person has logic - those pesky HALF INVERSIONS…

Why wouldn't it be 'fair' to label two half loops as two inversions? They're two separate elements that the track (not necessarily the train) inverts and manoeuvres said element.


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Gazza

Active Member
I thought on flyers you just counted the number of times riders switch onto their back.
So if you consider a typical SUF clone, thats 2 inversions....the bottom of the pretzel, and the inline twist.

Or with Tatsu, it's 4, the corkscrew, the zero g, the bottom of the preztel, and the inline twist.

For flying dinosaur, it's the uphill part of the 540 degree roll, then the base of the raven turn, base of the pretzel, the corkscrew, then the inline twist, which makes 5.
 

Crazycoaster

Active Member
^ This.

Take air for example; two inversions but three elements. The fly-to-lie and lie-to-fly are one "inversion", but they are two seperate "elements".

It's difficult with flying coasters, because if we were being technical about what counts as an inversion, the 540* roll and following raven turn would not even count as 1. The rider is never technically upside down (unless you count the decent angle out of the roll, but we'd need furie's chart for that). That's why inversions on flyers are considered when the train is upside down rather than the riders.
 

Ben

Social Media Team
Social Media Team
I would go with the 'how many times do you go on your back argument'.

To me it doesn't matter how far apart the twists to turn the track over are - otherwise every upside down bit on a Screamin' Squirrel or those Zero-G stalls RMC do would be two - same concept IMO.
 

Hyde

I Lied About My Age!
Staff member
Moderator
Social Media Team
Hyde said:
^ True, however the hill of Samurai Summit does allow for the Pretzel Loop in the layout. While the ride is only 170 ft. tall, there is a total elevation change of 263 ft.

This is quite a significant elevation change; Kings Island's Banshee also sits on a topographic slant and is similar in height (167 ft.) to Tatsu, yet only experiences 208 ft. in total elevation change.

Suffice it to say, I am pleased to see a large B&M custom flyer built on truly flat land.

Ben said:
Well, that's just not true.

The drop is 111ft and the top of the 124ft tall Pretzel Loop is higher than the bottom of the drop.

I'd imagine the height of 170ft is the elevation difference - like how Nemesis' is listed as 104ft

Because, 263ft...? No.
As Canobie pointed out, I was simply using the official elevation change that was shared by SFMM. I went ahead and used a Google Maps Elevation Calculator to see if I could repeat SFMM's measurements (also bear in mind, total elevation change would be the difference between the top most point of the ride and bottom most point):

Elevation at peak of Lift Hill = 1,179.9 ft.
Height of Lift Hill = 170 ft.
Elevation at bottom of Pretzel Loop = 1,141.5 ft.

(1,179.9 ft. + 170 ft.) - 1,141.5 ft. = 208.4 ft. in ride elevation change

Obviously not the 263 ft. of total elevation change SFMM totes, but also equal to Banshee's 208 of total elevation change.

The driving point of all this however is that USJ is dealing with near-zero elevation change, and is producing the longest, largest drop custom B&M Flyer in the world. Exciting!
 
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