Thorpe Park | Hyperia | Mack Hyper Coaster | 2024

[Matt N]

Ok I'm just gonna come out and say it: I don't think that area is big enough for a B&M hyper. At least, not the kind of B&M hyper that we're all hoping for. Not the gigantic, Shambhala-crushing, height & speed record breaking, out & back monster that's at the top of (almost) everyone's wish list.
I also think that such a coaster, even with a bulk-buy discount, is simply too expensive for Thorpe Park. You've got to be talking £30 million for something like that, surely?

As @Nicky Borrill said, I think the idea was that you could extend a hyper elsewhere, with Loggers’ site merely functioning as the main plaza area for it, with station, lift hill, brake run et al going there and the main body of the ride would extend in a different direction, such as around the back of the park or over the lake. I remember it being said in a different thread (I think @Jared might have said it?) that Thorpe has even designed hypers of this style before, albeit launching from different sites:

You say that, but there are designs for [a B&M Hyper at Thorpe] up on the walls “somewhere” within Merlin… Station replacing Depth Charge and running up into the car parks past the main entrance and back.

Here’s the thread in question, in case you’re wondering:
https://coasterforce.com/forums/threads/future-uk-coasters.44817/post-1111212

In terms of the cost argument; DBGT was said to have cost somewhere in the £30m ballpark, and Merlin had no issues greenlighting that. I’d also wager that DBGT was both less marketable and had far more potential to go wrong than a hyper.

 

[Howie]

Edit: To put this into perspective, assuming a logger leap and old town footprint (so no fancy coaster over the lake / to the entrance etc etc) Thorpes longest straight line would only just fit Shambhala's lift and first drop in it... And would mean an immediate very tight turnaround!!!

View attachment 14740

View attachment 14741

Gosh, that really does put it into perspective. I think people forget sometimes just how BIG B&M hypers actually are.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

In terms of the cost argument; DBGT was said to have cost somewhere in the £30m ballpark, and Merlin had no issues greenlighting that. I’d also wager that DBGT was both less marketable and had far more potential to go wrong than a hyper.

Where the hell did £30M come from? It was bad enough when it was said to be £16M!!!!!

That thread you linked contains nothing but 'apparently' and rumour... As far as I can see, am I missing something?

BTW The entire length from lift hill to turnaround is 357M



The entire footprint of Shambhala is 524M by 125m

This is what a footprint of that size looks like next to Thorpe park





If Thorpe are going to build a Hyper, it's clearly either not going to be the super tall traditional out and back we all crave... Or it's going to have to be built in areas (such as the lake) that we're not even sure Thorpe have rights to build on... (The lake for example is a sporting lake, used by loads of people.)

Edited to add: BTW I'm not saying that this is impossible, for the record, I'm saying that it is going to be extremely interesting to see how it is executed... And I worry, yes even this early, that for those who've ridden B&M hypers, this won't live up to expectations if it is one.

 

[JoshC.]

In terms of the cost argument; DBGT was said to have cost somewhere in the £30m ballpark, and Merlin had no issues greenlighting that. I’d also wager that DBGT was both less marketable and had far more potential to go wrong than a hyper.

DBGT cost somewhere around the £17-23m mark I believe, all in (ie including the new stuff in 2017). The "most expensive investment ever" claim was perhaps a bit exaggerated, or taken in a different context compared to the likes of Swarm's and Smiler's figures.

I'll have to hear with the other mods to see if we should tolerate such outrageous levels of fanciful speculation.

In an attempt to redeem myself, have some more 'sensible' speculation.

People saying a hyper is difficult because of the length of the lift and drop. Why not get around that by scrapping a traditional lift hill, and putting in an elevator lift instead?
"You're crazy" I hear you say.

BUT, what if the hints have been here all along about it?
Some may recall the "Exodus" poster that appeared in the Trailers scare maze over Fright Nights. There's some speculation (largely originating from myself admittedly) that Exodus could be a project name for this new ride.

Source: https://thorpeparkmania.co.uk/news/13-10-2021/What+is+Exodus?

Looking at the poster, the trees look kind of similar to Old Town's. And look at that man, he's going up vertically. Like an elevator.

But wait, there's more!!

Recall the recent tweet from John Burton, of MMM:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464321598253637640

Those a lyrics from a Mary Poppins song. And what's a famous image from Mary Poppins?

Going up (kinda) vertically with her umbrella.

See where I'm going with this?

But there's more still.

A gif response from John, saying "Here we go":

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464619101075214336

The phrase "here we go" is commonly said during stunt shows, as a way to hype audiences up. Thorpe used to have a stunt show in their old arena, were stunt performers would climb up a vertical pole and dive off it.

It all adds up; clearly what is being hinted at. The park will have a very tall coaster, and to save on space, they'll use an elevator lift rather than a traditional lift hill.


(Gosh I feel dirty now...I hope that's an acceptable level of practical speculation for you @Pokemaniac )

 

[Coasterfreck]

I wouldn’t be surprised if as part of this development we finally have Slammer’s removal, as well as the old town Burger King and the toilet block opposite it.

Even the tent restaurant opposite Trailers could also be removed for this attraction, I don’t remember seeing it open in 2021, the dead space of the old Miss Hippos Fungle Safari Ride area as well.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

DBGT cost somewhere around the £17-23m mark I believe, all in (ie including the new stuff in 2017). The "most expensive investment ever" claim was perhaps a bit exaggerated, or taken in a different context compared to the likes of Swarm's and Smiler's figures.


In an attempt to redeem myself, have some more 'sensible' speculation.

People saying a hyper is difficult because of the length of the lift and drop. Why not get around that by scrapping a traditional lift hill, and putting in an elevator lift instead?
"You're crazy" I hear you say.

BUT, what if the hints have been here all along about it?
Some may recall the "Exodus" poster that appeared in the Trailers scare maze over Fright Nights. There's some speculation (largely originating from myself admittedly) that Exodus could be a project name for this new ride.
View attachment 14743
Source: https://thorpeparkmania.co.uk/news/13-10-2021/What+is+Exodus?

Looking at the poster, the trees look kind of similar to Old Town's. And look at that man, he's going up vertically. Like an elevator.

But wait, there's more!!

Recall the recent tweet from John Burton, of MMM:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464321598253637640

Those a lyrics from a Mary Poppins song. And what's a famous image from Mary Poppins?
View attachment 14744
Going up (kinda) vertically with her umbrella.

See where I'm going with this?

But there's more still.

A gif response from John, saying "Here we go":

https://twitter.com/x/status/1464619101075214336

The phrase "here we go" is commonly said during stunt shows, as a way to hype audiences up. Thorpe used to have a stunt show in their old arena, were stunt performers would climb up a vertical pole and dive off it.

It all adds up; clearly what is being hinted at. The park will have a very tall coaster, and to save on space, they'll use an elevator lift rather than a traditional lift hill.


(Gosh I feel dirty now...I hope that's an acceptable level of practical speculation for you @Pokemaniac )

That is meant to be satirical right? But is actually not that far fetched!!!!

 

[JoshC.]

That is meant to be satirical right? But is actually not that far fetched!!!!

If it ends up happening: it was not satire and was a serious prediction.
It it doesn't end up happening: it was satire.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

If it ends up happening: it was not satire and was a serious prediction.
It it doesn't end up happening: it was satire.

So we get that hyper, but it's not a B&M at all!!!, It's the UK's very own 'Speed, Water coaster.'

P.s there have been far too many flying references for my liking!!!!

I wouldn’t be surprised if as part of this development we finally have Slammer’s removal, as well as the old town Burger King and the toilet block opposite it.

Even the tent restaurant opposite Trailers could also be removed for this attraction, I don’t remember seeing it open in 2021, the dead space of the old Miss Hippos Fungle Safari Ride area as well.

I do think flattening everything up to the inferno shop that cannot be built 'around' or 'over' and building the first half along monks walk is our best hope of a traditional out and back!

 

[Coasterfreck]

Confirmation from Twitter that Old Town will not open for the 2022 Season.

 

[Jared]

Now, this is just blue-sky thinking, so excuse the poor image, but something like this is perfectly plausible.

I'd suggest the station area is on the Slammer site, lift hill up towards the back of Old Town, with a curved drop into a speed hill with a turnaround similar to that on Mako. Then a series of airtime hills with twisted bases and S-bends over the top, leading alongside Colossus / Saw Alive. Turnaround and back. Sizing obviously isn't to scale. I'm just throwing an idea out there. Hopefully, this will help people consider the fact that Merlin/Tussauds don't always think inside the box. With John Burton behind this, I'm sure it'll have lots of wild thinking behind it.

I've had people talking to me about this project for a little while. There were plans for one with the station located around Depth Charge with the ride wrapping the car park. There have been multiple layouts drawn up. I could be miles off the mark, but it's an idea.

As for the whole 3 B&M deal, from my understanding. It's Chessington, Thorpe and the Towers Retrack for Nemesis, which I'm lead to believe will be for 2025 the year after Nemesis' 30th year. So that'd be 3 B&Ms in 3 years. Chessington in 23, Thorpe in 24 and Towers in 25. Take that with however much salt you'd like, but I've never had reason not to trust my sources. They correctly informed me about the Chessington Wing Coaster before I walked into the consultation.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Now, this is just blue-sky thinking, so excuse the poor image, but something like this is perfectly plausible.

I'd suggest the station area is on the Slammer site, lift hill up towards the back of Old Town, with a curved drop into a speed hill with a turnaround similar to that on Mako. Then a series of airtime hills with twisted bases and S-bends over the top, leading alongside Colossus / Saw Alive. Turnaround and back. Sizing obviously isn't to scale. I'm just throwing an idea out there. Hopefully, this will help people consider the fact that Merlin/Tussauds don't always think inside the box. With John Burton behind this, I'm sure it'll have lots of wild thinking behind it.

I've had people talking to me about this project for a little while. There were plans for one with the station located around Depth Charge with the ride wrapping the car park. There have been multiple layouts drawn up. I could be miles off the mark, but it's an idea.

As for the whole 3 B&M deal, from my understanding. It's Chessington, Thorpe and the Towers Retrack for Nemesis, which I'm lead to believe will be for 2025 the year after Nemesis' 30th year. So that'd be 3 B&Ms in 3 years. Chessington in 23, Thorpe in 24 and Towers in 25. Take that with however much salt you'd like, but I've never had reason not to trust my sources. They correctly informed me about the Chessington Wing Coaster before I walked into the consultation.

That would give them a little over 305M to do that in...






Shambhala takes up to 372M to do the same thing, with a similar bend.... So whilst plausible, it would need to be considerably lower than Shambhala, wouldn't it?

 

[Jared]

Edit: ^ Beat me to it.

Correct, but you're also assuming the same trains. Shambhala is more spread out on the curves and valleys due to the longer trains. Making a slimmer ride with the Silver Star / Normal Hyper trains more realistic. The shorter train could easily run that layout.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

You are using Shambhala as an example though, which is one of the larger generation B&M's with longer trains and more drawn out elements. Thorpe Park clearly don't have space for a B&M Hyper with the longer generation trains, but...if you use a more appropriate size model such as Mako or Candymonium... (Here's my awfully cruddy thrown together example of the actual size of Mako at Thorpe Park). There is potential space for a B&M Hyper, it just may need more of a twister layout? Maybe the park will be building further down back behind Burger King?

Shambhala is one of the more drawn out B&M's with the longer generation trains, so it's not the best example to use here in my opinion.

Use Mako or Candymonium or one of the smaller B&M's as they have smaller trains and can do tighter turns and valleys and take up less space and length.

I'm using Shambhala as an example for 2 reasons, one, IMO it is the benchmark in Europe, the B&M that most British enthusiasts, and many 'GP' holiday makers have experienced. So should really be the standard we're hoping for surely?

And 2, this one's personal, it's the only B&M Hyper in Europe that I think is any good... I obviously haven't ridden Mako or Candymonium

But here's a size comparison... Still needs well over 220M before the first turn, and over 450m before the turnaround... So even 'more' compact, is not really compact...

 

[Matt N]

That would give them a little over 305M to do that in...


View attachment 14750



Shambhala takes up to 372M to do the same thing, with a similar bend.... So whilst plausible, it would need to be considerably lower than Shambhala, wouldn't it?



View attachment 14751

Couldn’t the lift hill be steepened a fraction, push come to shove?

Also, Shambhala has a shallower turnaround than what @Jared is suggesting; Shambhala barely turns at all before the ampersand, while I think Jared is suggesting something more akin to Mako, where it does a 90 degree turn straight after the drop (Correct me if I’m wrong there, Jared). Measurements show that you could feasibly fit that within the Old Town area, especially if you stretched your plot out towards Slammer and the bottom of The Jungle.

In terms of after the turnaround, I think there would quite easily be space for a run of out and back airtime hills behind Saw The Ride and Colossus.

 

[Jared]

Yes, but a custom-designed layout wouldn't exactly require the same. We've established that the lift hill size could work where I plotted it assuming we were going to Shambhala height. The drop with a tighter apex and valley would also fit. Therefore the ride design could work and a hypercoaster could realistically fit in that layout.

Whilst I understand the comparison lengths wise, it's a moot point as the ride would be custom designed to fit the available space.

As per Matt above, it would also be a steeper turnaround. It's perfectly feasible that a B&M Hyper could fit on that site is what I'm getting at.

 

[Swat]

Now, this is just blue-sky thinking, so excuse the poor image, but something like this is perfectly plausible.

I'd suggest the station area is on the Slammer site, lift hill up towards the back of Old Town, with a curved drop into a speed hill with a turnaround similar to that on Mako. Then a series of airtime hills with twisted bases and S-bends over the top, leading alongside Colossus / Saw Alive. Turnaround and back. Sizing obviously isn't to scale. I'm just throwing an idea out there. Hopefully, this will help people consider the fact that Merlin/Tussauds don't always think inside the box. With John Burton behind this, I'm sure it'll have lots of wild thinking behind it.

I've had people talking to me about this project for a little while. There were plans for one with the station located around Depth Charge with the ride wrapping the car park. There have been multiple layouts drawn up. I could be miles off the mark, but it's an idea.

As for the whole 3 B&M deal, from my understanding. It's Chessington, Thorpe and the Towers Retrack for Nemesis, which I'm lead to believe will be for 2025 the year after Nemesis' 30th year. So that'd be 3 B&Ms in 3 years. Chessington in 23, Thorpe in 24 and Towers in 25. Take that with however much salt you'd like, but I've never had reason not to trust my sources. They correctly informed me about the Chessington Wing Coaster before I walked into the consultation.

I can't see where they would fit the queue and infrastucture into the Slammer site. I really don't see a Hyper being chosen for Thorpe, at least a traditional B&M. I cannot see the Thorpe GP accepting a non-inverting airtime machine and short of a full area re-theme I don't see a Hyper fitting the Old Town theme easily.

This ride has to be world class and has to be one of the biggest and most exciting rides in Europe for it to be a success. This was already discussed but its been way too long and with other limitations at Merlin parks, Thorpe really have the opportunity here to do something special. With the bulk of the free space being the wooded area behind Saw, having a coaster wrap around the lake would look incredible and save on a huge theming cost when most of the ride is hidden off in the trees. A 200/210ft ground up RMC like a Zadra would be marketable (Worlds Tallest if they push it without fully overshadowing Stealth), possiblity of a 'Top 10/5' coaster, wooden structure would fit the Old Town vibe and a dense structure in a wooded area would look amazing and most of the GP would not have seen anything like it before.

Using the Platform 15 ending area as the station with the queue and drop running down the Monks walk area, main bulk of the ride on the wooded area behind Saw with the ride coming back past the Loggers building with a viewing point over the lake would leave them space to open the area up for how crowded it will get. It will also allow them to keep Creek Freak and to add a new flat into the Slammer area.

TL;DR - I can see a more compact coaster rather than a sprawling Hyper utlising the area. They would need to close more than just Old Town to have a Hyper across half of the park.

 

[Jared]

I can't see where they would fit the queue and infrastucture into the Slammer site. I really don't see a Hyper being chosen for Thorpe, at least a traditional B&M. I cannot see the Thorpe GP accepting a non-inverting airtime machine and short of a full area re-theme I don't see a Hyper fitting the Old Town theme easily.

Just remember, this is a large scale development. Chances are the paths that are currently there will be moved. There could even be more rides (flats) involved in the development. The current path around Old Town could realistically move to make way for the queue-line. As for the Thorpe GP. Stealth was talked about far and wide because of its speed and height. Go bigger (and therefore faster) than that and you've got a moneymaker. A hyper would realistically sell itself.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Yes, but a custom-designed layout wouldn't exactly require the same. We've established that the lift hill size could work where I plotted it assuming we were going to Shambhala height. The drop with a tighter apex and valley would also fit. Therefore the ride design could work and a hypercoaster could realistically fit in that layout.

Whilst I understand the comparison lengths wise, it's a moot point as the ride would be custom designed to fit the available space.

As per Matt above, it would also be a steeper turnaround. It's perfectly feasible that a B&M Hyper could fit on that site is what I'm getting at.

Yes, but the initial issue I raised was not fitting a drop into that space, it was the immediate turnaround required after the drop, and whilst you have suggested a Mako style turnaround... Mako's first turn is nowhere near as tight as the turn that would be needed in your layout... It's more or less a full cutback that you'd require... Is that plausible immediately after a 200+ foot drop?

If it is... that could make for one hell of a great and intense element!!!

 

[Matt N]

I can't see where they would fit the queue and infrastucture into the Slammer site. I really don't see a Hyper being chosen for Thorpe, at least a traditional B&M. I cannot see the Thorpe GP accepting a non-inverting airtime machine and short of a full area re-theme I don't see a Hyper fitting the Old Town theme easily.

This ride has to be world class and has to be one of the biggest and most exciting rides in Europe for it to be a success. This was already discussed but its been way too long and with other limitations at Merlin parks, Thorpe really have the opportunity here to do something special. With the bulk of the free space being the wooded area behind Saw, having a coaster wrap around the lake would look incredible and save on a huge theming cost when most of the ride is hidden off in the trees. A 200/210ft ground up RMC like a Zadra would be marketable (Worlds Tallest if they push it without fully overshadowing Stealth), possiblity of a 'Top 10/5' coaster, wooden structure would fit the Old Town vibe and a dense structure in a wooded area would look amazing and most of the GP would not have seen anything like it before.

Using the Platform 15 ending area as the station with the queue and drop running down the Monks walk area, main bulk of the ride on the wooded area behind Saw with the ride coming back past the Loggers building with a viewing point over the lake would leave them space to open the area up for how crowded it will get. It will also allow them to keep Creek Freak and to add a new flat into the Slammer area.

TL;DR - I can see a more compact coaster rather than a sprawling Hyper utlising the area. They would need to close more than just Old Town to have a Hyper across half of the park.

I understand where you’re coming from, but I’d wager that your average Thorpe Park visitor wouldn’t really care too much about RMCs or niche ride types that excite enthusiasts from a marketing standpoint (most probably don’t know what an RMC is), while “tallest coaster in the UK” is likely to grab their attention a lot more. It’s a pretty meaningful record, and I’d argue that it could make a really big splash; history suggests that records of that vein, even national ones, really sell in Britain, so I’m personally confident that such a ride would be a big success if built.

In terms of whether a non-inverting airtime machine would go down well; neither Stealth nor the Big One have ever had issues with the fact they don’t invert, and who’s to say that the average visitor wouldn’t like it when we don’t really have anything like it in Britain?

 

[Coasterfreck]

I don't see a Hyper fitting the Old Town theme easily.

With Old Town closing, the theming of the area would likely be scrapped for a new theme. - Samurai was in Old Town but in Lost City Colours, as originally it was a part of Lost City but was retrospectively moved area wise into Old Town/Creek when Saw was buit. Rocky was arguably the only one of the three flats (Timber/Lumber) that actually fit the theme but that was more cause it was themed to Canada Creek.