Thorpe Park | Hyperia | Mack Hyper Coaster | 2024

[Rob Coasters]

Im sure this has been discussed before but do we have any idea when/if the SAW IP will lapse? If we want to get really out there, SAW would be a perfect fit to carry on the Creek Freak branding and they could incorporate it as part of a whole area refresh with little cost. Given this is all still based on hearsay until we see work being carried out I am looking forward to seeing whats carried out over the closed season. Thorpe have to be looking at RMCs as an option, surely.

I've heard the Saw IP is five-year increments, so it's renewed after 2014, 2019, will 99% be renewed in 2024 etc.. I'm very confident in thinking they'll keep the Saw IP until the coaster itself donks and dies which is something I can get behind.

They won't touch Saw with a stick. The current theme of the ride still fits incredibly well, it's still massively talked about across the general public (especially on those shuttle buses), and the franchise is still loved pretty well.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the new coaster to be themed to Creek Freak instead? Especially if it's wooden in some shape or form. It fits far too perfectly for a wooden coaster themed around a lumber company... ...although I'm still on the B&M hyper gang.

 

[JoshC.]

and some of the larger mid-size parks (e.g. Drayton, Flamingo Land, Paultons) could probably build a Raptor or family hybrid.

Given Flamingo are struggling to open a 2nd hand (3rd? 4th? n-th?) Intamin - which they're claiming cost them £20m - I think we should strike them off the list of building anything any time soon.
Whilst Drayton's new owners will invest, they'll likely invest in whatever stock model appears on the page of the Zamperla/Zierer/SBF catalogue they open to. It will be simple and cheap.
Paultons have shown they can build quality and put money down. But the last thing they need now is another coaster, especially for a park which isn't really one that should be thought of as a coaster park. With the right investments, the park could comfortably not invest in a new coaster this decade and still succeed imo.



As for Saw, it's a cheap IP these days and still does incredibly well. Thorpe and Lionsgate still have a good relationship. It's really hard to imagine a situation in the near future where it'll be rethemed.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

For my money, there’s more ways than you’d expect to build a UK RMC that don’t entail Thorpe building one for this project.

For starters, I reckon there are quite a few UK parks that could build one, with a little creativity. Alton could build one in the valley (and rumours suggest that something of that ilk was planned for SW8 prior to the Smiler crash), or in a different pit elsewhere on park, Blackpool could build a compact Raptor or similar, and some of the larger mid-size parks (e.g. Drayton, Flamingo Land, Paultons) could probably build a Raptor or family hybrid. RMC has a vast breadth of products and scales of ride, which I do think makes them a possible proposition for more UK parks than you’d expect.

Not to mention, Thorpe has the island next to Swarm that is still unused; maybe a Raptor could be their next major investment? (If this one isn’t an RMC, of course)

If this isn’t an RMC, then there are no shortage of alternative opportunities for RMC in Britain, which can’t be said for something like a B&M hyper.

As good as Raptors are, they don’t have the capacity for a major UK park unless you go very large and expensive. Blackpool won’t be building a brand new thrill coaster any time soon, Flamingo Can’t even get their used project finished, and Paultons isn’t yet the right fit for a coaster like that, when / if they do move fully into the thrill department you can bet your bottom dollar it will still be family based… Mack Launch, GCI etc etc. Drayton I already said was an outsider, with a slim chance.

Alton ‘could’ build one, but a raptor would be too low on capacity, and they wouldn’t build what the public would perceive to be ‘another wooden coaster’ after Wicker Man. Also, forget the valley, it’s not happening, they’re never going to be allowed to remove enough trees.

I know you have a love for B&M Hypers Matt, based on the one you rode in Florida… But they’re really not all that great, at least the modern ones aren’t from what I gather… What was the last ‘decent’ hyper B&M built? How well have recent attempts been received? Plus how could they market a coaster purely on height with Stealth in the same park and a Hyper up at Blackpool? Go for the national record? It would have to be a strangely twisty B&M hyper to fit and break the record, wouldn’t it?

Don’t get me wrong, a B&M hyper would be great, and realistically much better than I actually expect them to build, but if they had that kind of money to spend, I really hope they’d do more with it than just another hyper…

 

[roomraider]

I mean almost all the recent B&M hyper have been well received with the exception perhaps being candymonium. it's not technically a hyper by Fury is top 10 material and is a truly brilliant ride. Mako and Shambalaalallaa are both excellent too. Himalayan Eagle is also a really solid ride for its size.

Even Orion seems to get good reviews with just complaints on its length. B&M hyper are almost always good rides, sure they don't have the enthusiast wow factor that RMCs do (no matter how overhyped I consider that to be) but you get a B&M hyper you get a good ride with good capacity that won't break down and will be a big GP draw.

A B&M hyper is arguably everything thorpe and the UK industry needs. Which is probably why it won't be one.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

I mean almost all the recent B&M hyper have been well received with the exception perhaps being candymonium. it's not technically a hyper by Fury is top 10 material and is a truly brilliant ride. Mako and Shambalaalallaa are both excellent too. Himalayan Eagle is also a really solid ride for its size.

Even Orion seems to get good reviews with just complaints on its length. B&M hyper are almost always good rides, sure they don't have the enthusiast wow factor that RMCs do (no matter how overhyped I consider that to be) but you get a B&M hyper you get a good ride with good capacity that won't break down and will be a big GP draw.

A B&M hyper is arguably everything thorpe and the UK industry needs. Which is probably why it won't be one.

I would argue that of the last 5, only Fury and Mako have matched or exceeded expectations. But that is based purely off of others reviews, I’m a little unqualified to comment having not ridden them :/ The other 2 300+ ones are debatable, but impossible for Thorpe anyway…

So 300 footers aside, they’ve built 2 in the last 9 years!!! And have a hit ratio of 50%

 

[TPoseOnTantrum]

I mean almost all the recent B&M hyper have been well received with the exception perhaps being candymonium.

Keep in mind that parks don’t cater their capital investments to enthusiasts (KK is pretty much the exception). If Merlin ruled out a B&M hyper, it won’t have been because the model was “ill-received”

 

[Chris Brown]

I’ve no idea what this is going to be but I don’t think we’re too far off seeing plans on the planning portal if the 2024 date is correct. For that reason I wanted to get my bets in!

GCI woodie

Mack triple launch / spinner

Second would be a little bit meh but I can see Thorpe going for a triple launch with inversions as an attempt at diversity. Reckon they’d put the spinny carriages on ala steel taipan in Australia. Would love an intamin triple launch but think that would be a little too exciting for Merlin!

The only thing throwing me is the potential for a family coaster. I know Thorpe have previously tried to push the family route and I’m not sure they’ve ever gone back away from that. A family coaster would be a bit of a kick in the teeth but could still be a well received ride.

 

[roomraider]

I would argue that of the last 5, only Fury and Mako have matched or exceeded expectations. But that is based purely off of others reviews, I’m a little unqualified to comment having not ridden them :/ The other 2 300+ ones are debatable, but impossible for Thorpe anyway…

So 300 footers aside, they’ve built 2 in the last 9 years!!! And have a hit ratio of 50%

Why 9 years? Haha.
I'd argue that if we are excluding the 300footers, of the 4 mega coasters they've built and opened (RIP Hotgo) in the last 10 years I've ridden 3 and all are top class rides.

In fact the only B&M hyper I've ridden that if say wasn't a good ride was Intimidator. Which gives them a 90% hit rate for me.

Where as I've ridden 2 RMCs (Zadra and Rattler) and I didn't rate either of them. A 0% hit rate for me.

We could argue this all day but as always its subjective.

But what I don't think is subjective is that a B&M hyper would do well for Thorpe no matter what any of us nerds think of the ride type. As would an RMC for sure but I think a hyper fills a hole in both the parks (and the UKs) line up that an RMC doesn't.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Why 9 years? Haha.
I'd argue that if we are excluding the 300footers, of the 4 mega coasters they've built and opened (RIP Hotgo) in the last 10 years I've ridden 3 and all are top class rides.

In fact the only B&M hyper I've ridden that if say wasn't a good ride was Intimidator. Which gives them a 90% hit rate for me.

Where as I've ridden 2 RMCs (Zadra and Rattler) and I didn't rate either of them. A 0% hit rate for me.

We could argue this all day but as always its subjective.

But what I don't think is subjective is that a B&M hyper would do well for Thorpe no matter what any of us nerds think of the ride type. As would an RMC for sure but I think a hyper fills a hole in both the parks (and the UKs) line up that an RMC doesn't.

9 years… Because then I don’t have to include Shambhala

It is subjective… You’re right, so no point in arguing, I’m especially not going to argue with somebody who’s ridden more coasters than I can name!!!

But of those 4 you mention, I’ve ridden 2, and one was good, great even, one was meh… Neither come close, for me, to several other ride types I’ve done.

I also agree that it’d do well, I just don’t think it’d do ‘as well’ as an RMC… Or dare I suggest, an Intamin multi launch akin to velocicoaster… Imagine something like that in that setting with the lake etc!!! Not going to happen, with Stealth, but just imagine!!!

Whilst we’re on Intamin, if it must be a steel hyper, please god let it be an Intamin Hyper over B&M!!! That, would potentially be even better than an RMC! IMO of course!

Like I said originally though, despite me finding B&M hypers middling to good, I’d still be over the moon with one at Thorpe, there’s very little that would disappoint me… But it would be a missed opportunity in my eyes, to do something extraordinary…

 

[Jamesss]

A B&M hyper would be the best coaster for Thorpe.

But is it really a possibility when this development seems confined to that small corner where Loggers was?

A hyper would surely need to going along the back edge of the park where the railway track used to go.

If it's just the Loggers area, I think a GCI woodie or RMC would fit better there.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

A B&M hyper would be the best coaster for Thorpe.

But is it really a possibility when this development seems confined to that small corner where Loggers was?

A hyper would surely need to going along the back edge of the park where the railway track used to go.

If it's just the Loggers area, I think a GCI woodie or RMC would fit better there.

It could be a more twisty model than we’re used to, circling the lake… Which might actually make it more interesting??

But yes, ultimately that was one of the points I was making earlier…

Out of interest, where does the talk of a B&M come from? Is it purely based on those historical rumours from way back? Is it just what some would ‘like’ to see? Or has there been recent hints suggesting a B&M hyper?

 

[Matt N]

That’s what I’m saying; it could stretch around the back of the park or over the lake. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be confined to Loggers’ plot. As I said in an earlier post, Loggers’ area could be where the station, lift hill, brake run, queue and perhaps a spectator-y (is that a word?) ending a la Mako and Candymonium would go, but the actual main body of the ride could go off elsewhere, either over the lake and bridge or around the back of the park.

It’s like how Orion at Kings Island technically replaced Firehawk. Firehawk’s former area merely houses the station, lift hill, brake run and queue. The main body of the ride stretches out into the woods.

Just because Loggers is where construction is currently happening, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the ride would be confined to Loggers’ area. They may well start construction elsewhere further along.

From Loggers’ area, I don’t think it’s inconceivable that they could go the other direction, and run a B&M hyper over the lake towards the main entrance; in fact, in a thread about future UK coasters earlier this year, @Jared even spoke about drawings for a B&M hyper going over Thorpe’s main entrance and car parks that are “up on the walls” within Merlin Magic Making:

You say that, but there are designs for [a B&M hyper] up on the walls ‘somewhere’ within Merlin... Station replacing Depth Charge and running up into the car parks past the main entrance and back.

I know that the example in Jared’s post used Depth Charge’s area as the station site, but Loggers’ site isn’t all that far from Thorpe’s car parks and main entrance (as the crow flies, at least); I could certainly see them being able to do a hyper over the water from there, even if it didn’t reach all the way to the park entrance.

Here’s the thread in question, in case any of you are curious: https://coasterforce.com/forums/threads/future-uk-coasters.44817/
P.S. Hope you don’t mind me citing your post @Jared; if you object, I’ll remove the post.

 

[roomraider]

Could make a nice little feature out of the entrance bridge if you could get it over there. That was one of my favourite features of the now SBNO hotgo hyper. With one track dipping under and one track jumping over the bridge. It would have made an excellent entrance view
(seen towards the back of these 2 photos.)



I suppose Fury does much the same.

But this is pie in the sky thinking as far as I'm concerned and I can't wait for the S&S free spin announcement next year.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Could make a nice little feature out of the entrance bridge if you could get it over there. That was one of my favourite features of the now SBNO hotgo hyper. With one track dipping under and one track jumping over the bridge. It would have made an excellent entrance view
(seen towards the back of these 2 photos.)

View attachment 14027View attachment 14028

I suppose Fury does much the same.

But this is pie in the sky thinking as far as I'm concerned and I can't wait for the S&S free spin announcement next year.

Have to say, that would be nice...

Profiling on that bigger hill looks like some of B&M's more adventurous work!!! I love it! How did that hill ride?

Edited to add... Would they be allowed to use the lake? It's used regularly by the local watersports centre, right up to the bridge... Do Thorpe own it / any of it?

 

[roomraider]

Have to say, that would be nice...

Profiling on that bigger hill looks like some of B&M's more adventurous work!!! I love it! How did that hill ride?

Currently it is only unique B&M to be built but never open so no one knows. (Theres a B&M wing in the same park but its a clone)
Just sat there for the last 5 years now.

 

[Bentleya]

I’ve been holding out in regards to posting in here, as quite frankly - I don’t really know where to begin in explaining my thoughts.

While I agree it’s great to hear all the speculation floating around and some of the enthusiasm / excitement from many whom have posted already in the thread - I’m still holding out and maybe just a tad to much reservation from my part. For one, 2024 is still a good number of years away - let’s not forgot how much can happen in the time period and two; this is England and Merlin, pretty much a recipe for disappointment….

I’l tried to break this down to what I feel Thorpe Park needs and also to my overall desires - however the more I think about it, the more they sort of overlap.

This is what I feel Thorpe Park Need; (in no particular order)

A decent family cred with a high throughput, a decent length and nothing overly gimmicky - preferably something similar to Pégase Express @ Parc Astérix

B&M hyper / giga - I mean who wouldn’t want a UK version of Fury 325?? However this is Merlin, so I’ll totally settle for a Mako or Shambhala any day of the week. (Basically a big floaty B&M, with a single rider queue that I can re-ride over and over and over again)

A medium to large GCI woodie, possibly something in-between Wodan and Wicker Man; not stupidly mad or intense - but with a decent length and lot of airtime.

I’m going to finish off the coaster list by saying I don’t feel Thorpe needs or if I would like to them to get a custom hybrid RMC - they are just a bit too intense and out there for me and think there only appeal to a smaller margin of people.

That’s being said, this is Merlin and if this does end up being a new coaster - it will probably be completely the wrong coaster for the park, with an outdated IP and the length of about 3’…..

Finally - I’ll just sit here in the background, watching in, enjoying all the chat / speculation (there is some great ideas being raised) and hoping in anticipation that Thorpe will make a decent decision

 

[Fleetwood_Mack]

I definitely can't imagine a hyper running across the back of the park. Surely that strip isn't wide enough for the supports something that tall would require? As for across the front of the park, I feel like that would disturb the skyline too much coming into the park. Plus, again, space for supports? Am I also right in thinking that B&M/most companies don't like to build over water that can't be drained? or did I dream that?

I always thought a Hyper at Thorpe would work best starting from the Shark Hotel site and using/sharing the land that has the service roads. Either a double U shaped layout on those or a simple out and back towards Treasure Island.

Old Town would be better suited to wood, or a substantial family coaster IMO. I also like the idea of a big Mack spinning coaster. But that in theory would give a Merlin park a substantial coaster. We all know how much they like short, underwhelming coasters that meander around big theming structures. They're very 'boardroom' in their decisions. It'll be something tried and tested that they know how to market.

 

[Matt N]

I also agree that it’d do well, I just don’t think it’d do ‘as well’ as an RMC… Or dare I suggest, an Intamin multi launch akin to velocicoaster… Imagine something like that in that setting with the lake etc!!! Not going to happen, with Stealth, but just imagine!!!

Sorry to reply to a day-old post, but I thought this was an interesting quote.

I’d be intrigued to know; out of interest, what makes you think a B&M Hyper Coaster would perform less well commercially than an RMC or Intamin multi-launch? To your average Thorpe Park visitor, who might not know or care about things like RMCs, surely it wouldn’t make much difference what ride type they go for?

I’d also argue that “tallest coaster in the UK” (possibly paired with fastest and longest dependant on the scale of ride) could perform very well based on the success of rides like the Big One and more recently Smiler; rightly or wrongly, I think record breakers are very popular in the UK, and I think that such a ride is something that Thorpe really needs.

 

[JoshC.]

I always wonder if the "something something in the UK" is enough for the wider audience. We're a fairly small country, and most people associate the big parks to be Thorpe, Towers and Blackpool. Anyone who's even aware of the other parks sees them as smaller parks in my experience.
Of course, with - say - "The UK's tallest coaster", that sounds good if people know of that beating The Big One, but it's still not the most exciting thing.

So I think the park should aim a little bit taller - "Tallest Hyper Coaster in Europe". They have to beat Hyperion's 252ft to get there, but when we're already talking of beating Big One, it's not much more of a stretch. It's a legitimate claim (even with the wrinkle that it's not the tallest coaster in Europe), and one which I think would garner a lot more interest than just being the "Tallest coaster in the UK". And I can't see any park in Europe trying to take that claim any time soon either.

Obviously a stretch. But I do wonder if the "UK's anything" is enough to turn heads.

 

[Nicky Borrill]

Sorry to reply to a day-old post, but I thought this was an interesting quote.

I’d be intrigued to know; out of interest, what makes you think a B&M Hyper Coaster would perform less well commercially than an RMC or Intamin multi-launch? To your average Thorpe Park visitor, who might not know or care about things like RMCs, surely it wouldn’t make much difference what ride type they go for?

I’d also argue that “tallest coaster in the UK” (possibly paired with fastest and longest dependant on the scale of ride) could perform very well based on the success of rides like the Big One and more recently Smiler; rightly or wrongly, I think record breakers are very popular in the UK, and I think that such a ride is something that Thorpe really needs.

Queue times at parks with a hyper / mega (B&M or otherwise) and an RMC…

Obviously just my own personal experience, I don’t sit checking different parks’ apps or anything…

And of course the RMC usually has the benefit of being the ‘latest and greatest’ coaster in the park…

I suppose you could also look at various different rating and award schemes lately to see which type has been climbing charts, winning awards etc, and which type has been falling (I haven’t done this, just an educated guess )