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Skyrush closure 2013 | Update page 11

Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

It saddens me that people don't care about onload and offload designs until they cause problems as significant as on Skyrush.

I really need to write that blog post on why they matter.

At least Skyrush doesn't have a ridiculous exit ramp which takes longer to navigate than the queue... So many Six Flags and Cedar Fair parks do that crap.

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Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

All I'm getting from this thread is that Intamin can't design for ****. They can draw a nice layout but when it comes to actually making it work? Sorry pal but you're **** out of luck.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

No, they can design some very nice rides, just that they are all **** in America due to little/no restrictions placed upon them by the park.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

America has very few places with height/sound/ restrictions. Places like Carowinds and SFoG have found ways around that in regards to building high. We (GP wise) are also accustomed to the notion of Bigger and Faster = Better. It allows for more freedom in design than elsewhere outside of China.

Granted I dont really know ALL the restrictions overseas, but we have 6 300+ foot tall coasters, with lots more near the 200+ range. Europe/Britain has 4 I know of off the top of my head, with Shambalah being tallest. We have a more base need for taller (or some extreme element design/first) rides. Adding in a less restrictive environment just seems to allow for more freedom in design.

I will admit that my view may be horrendously wrong (more than likely so), but that is how it is percieved by me. Correct me if I am wrong though.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Dunno, Intamin haven't been free of mistakes elsewhere. I don't know how true the "Colossus came with the wrong wheels" rumour is, but if true...

It just seems like everything Intamin does is completely different to the last recently. It's as if, instead of building upon an existing design to fix the problems, they just start from scratch again and thus unearth some new, unforseen issue.

I don't know **** all about engineering though so, whatever it looks like is obviously not how it actually is. I hope?

Why is it that B&M just make their track a bit wider and bam they can support these "winged" trains, but Intamin have to go RIGHT, COMPLETE REDESIGN FROM SCRATCH! FORGET EVERYTHING WE'VE LEARNED.

Seriously? Engineering peoples, educate me.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Intricks said:
No, they can design some very nice rides, just that they are all **** in America due to little/no restrictions placed upon them by the park.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about restrictions that the park places on itself or restrictions exhibited on the parks by state and city governments?

Joey said:
It saddens me that people don't care about onload and offload designs until they cause problems as significant as on Skyrush.

I really need to write that blog post on why they matter.

At least Skyrush doesn't have a ridiculous exit ramp which takes longer to navigate than the queue... So many Six Flags and Cedar Fair parks do that crap.
Click to expand...
Hershey has shown a fatal flaw in their design process. It is baffling that they thought it to be reasonable to have loading occur on one side of the station. All of their other roller coaster stations feature opposite load/unload, even Storm Runner has a dual station. Why the thought process was different for Skyrush, who knows.

Skyrush also has an elevator for handicap access, which allows for breaking away from the long handicapped-accessible ramp. Elevator use will always trump a ramp.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Joey said:
It just seems like everything Intamin does is completely different to the last recently. It's as if, instead of building upon an existing design to fix the problems, they just start from scratch again and thus unearth some new, unforseen issue.

I don't know **** all about engineering though so, whatever it looks like is obviously not how it actually is. I hope?

Why is it that B&M just make their track a bit wider and bam they can support these "winged" trains, but Intamin have to go RIGHT, COMPLETE REDESIGN FROM SCRATCH! FORGET EVERYTHING WE'VE LEARNED.

Seriously? Engineering peoples, educate me.
Click to expand...

This is because Intamin can build you anything you want. To offer this kind of service is a huge advantage, as a client can pretty much order any thing they want. To offer this kind service you have to start from scratch to be able to deliver the product the client have chosen. Sure it might need some tweaking like Thirteen, I305 and now Skyrush, but in the end it always works out.

Most things built by Intamin don't have issues, but if you gonna order something entirely new like Thirteen, or something really boundary pushing like Skyrush, Maverick and I305, then you as a buyer are expecting some issues that need to be worked out.

Company's like B&M have a product list you can chose from, and while that works for them, they are not nearly as flexible as intamin.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

_koppen said:
This is because Intamin can build you anything you want. To offer this kind of service is a huge advantage, as a client can pretty much order any thing they want. To offer this kind service you have to start from scratch to be able to deliver the product the client have chosen. Sure it might need some tweaking like Thirteen, I305 and now Skyrush, but in the end it always works out.

Most things built by Intamin don't have issues, but if you gonna order something entirely new like Thirteen, or something really boundary pushing like Skyrush, Maverick and I305, then you as a buyer are expecting some issues that need to be worked out.

Company's like B&M have a product list you can chose from, and while that works for them, they are not nearly as flexible as intamin.
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Exactly. Intamin really is a company of prototypes. This company has produced various world firsts:

  • 300 ft. roller coaster
  • 400 ft. roller coaster
  • magnetic brakes
  • 10+ inversions
  • hydraulic restraints
  • cable lift
  • hydraulic launch
  • prefabricated wood

Leading the cutting edge of the industry carries high risk and high reward. As of the latest Mitch Hawker Polls, Intamin claimed 8 of the top 10 steel coaster spots, and the #1 and #2 wooden coaster spots. Overall, Intamin has seemed to do pretty well maintenance wise. But it is no secret that B&M and other manufacturers make much more reliable, be it much more conservative/traditional, coaster designs.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

_koppen said:
Joey said:
It just seems like everything Intamin does is completely different to the last recently. It's as if, instead of building upon an existing design to fix the problems, they just start from scratch again and thus unearth some new, unforseen issue.

I don't know **** all about engineering though so, whatever it looks like is obviously not how it actually is. I hope?

Why is it that B&M just make their track a bit wider and bam they can support these "winged" trains, but Intamin have to go RIGHT, COMPLETE REDESIGN FROM SCRATCH! FORGET EVERYTHING WE'VE LEARNED.

Seriously? Engineering peoples, educate me.
Click to expand...

This is because Intamin can build you anything you want. To offer this kind of service is a huge advantage, as a client can pretty much order any thing they want. To offer this kind service you have to start from scratch to be able to deliver the product the client have chosen. Sure it might need some tweaking like Thirteen, I305 and now Skyrush, but in the end it always works out.

Most things built by Intamin don't have issues, but if you gonna order something entirely new like Thirteen, or something really boundary pushing like Skyrush, Maverick and I305, then you as a buyer are expecting some issues that need to be worked out.

Company's like B&M have a product list you can chose from, and while that works for them, they are not nearly as flexible as intamin.
Click to expand...

So does Vekoma, or has Disneys most recent buys, as well as most of the Overseas Market be forgotten. Just cauae you sell a lot, or are very flexible, doesnt mean it will always work. As far as I can remember, at least most of the prototype and special made to order Vekomas work as listed.

Most everything Intamin made in the US, beyond the year 2000, is flawed in some manner and has needed a drastic fix. I would even venture far back as Volcanoes hayday is when the US Intaride market seemed to be heading south.

Yes, they can build anything you want, but it comes with a HEFTY maintenance fee that most parks are more than likely fed up with (US wise). The cost is beyond that of most B&Ms after all is said and done.

While B&M has a product list, it doesnt mean they arent entirely unflexible. If they werent they would be a company of nothing but sit-down loopers and Hyper coasters. Granted they have perfected a lot of prototypes over the years (Stand-up, Flyer and now Wing), they were also the first to go 90° for a drop and have redefined both the Sit-down and Invert design. Dont mix up a cautious perfectionist manufacturer with not being flexible.

And Hyde, I meant the rules and restrictions placed upon them by state mainly. Yes, park restrictions come into play as well, but that is mainly space.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

State and city governments often don't need to worry about tough regulations of amusement parks, outside of general safety inspections, the occasional noise ordinance, or a minor height cut-off. Even if there is a review process that is required for new rides, it is more of a formality than serious debate over the park's right to expand.

Think about the location of many major U.S. amusement parks. They are built on former farmland, wooded areas, and cheap outskirts of major metro areas. By building in isolated areas, parks can make all the noise they want and usually build whatever ride they want.

Amusement parks bring in tax revenue and tourism dollars that support many cities across the U.S. There is no political reason to limit park growth (growth = more tax dollars), so regulation remains low.

Intricks said:
While B&M has a product list, it doesnt mean they arent entirely unflexible. If they werent they would be a company of nothing but sit-down loopers and Hyper coasters. ... Dont mix up a cautious perfectionist manufacturer with not being flexible.
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I would call B&M conservative or traditional instead of inflexible with their coaster design.

Yes, they have great, unique layouts and comfortable riding positions; but the technology behind them has stayed the same, such as the chain lift hill. They even still partially use tradition friction brakes vs. Intamin's full magnetic brakes.

B&M's advances have been in rider seating and inversion execution - there is no questioning that the best inversions are often found on a B&M.

The clear advantage to this strategy is that everything is guaranteed to work right out of the gate. That seems to be a winning strategy right now compared to recent Intamins.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Most everything Intamin made in the US, beyond the year 2000, is flawed in some manner and has needed a drastic fix. I would even venture far back as Volcanoes hayday is when the US Intaride market seemed to be heading south.
Click to expand...

Escape from Pompeii was another notable ride that had issues during the 1990s other than Volcano. Mainly due to the fact they had the boats shaped differently than before and allowed them to splash water all the way across the pathway to the railroad tracks, which BGW was not happy about.

Other rides like the Chutes that have been removed at Knott's also have had a variety of issues in their lifespans.

The furthest I can venture back with Intamin's issues is around the early-mid 1990s, which was mainly in their various non-coaster rides that they installed in parks around the world like the two I mentioned above. Their coaster issues stem to around 1997 with Superman: Escape from Krypton. I believe their "coasters with major issues list" is now somewhere in the range of 15-18 coasters in that time. It's not exactly "most" as in more than 50%, I would put it more towards maybe 25%-30% which is still a sizable chunk of their rides.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Vekoma are far more open minded than Intamin when it comes to giving the customer what they want. Far more innovative. And cheaper. Big companies don't go to them, why? Maintainance costs? Really? The USA likes it's woods, and maintainance costs don't put them off there? If I was a park, high maintenance costs over Intamin incompetence any day.

B&M, I bet, would do pretty much anything if quoted the right price. But why would you do that when you can get other companies that are cheaper and that your guests will probably respond better to, anyway?

I don't buy the "Intamin are innovators" thing, frankly.

Skyrush also has an elevator for handicap access, which allows for breaking away from the long handicapped-accessible ramp. Elevator use will always trump a ramp.
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I meant exist for regular guests. In Skyrush's case it's stairs, but many parks in the USA have a ramp that goes on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And on. And were clearly added as an afterthought, RCT style, when they said "**** how do we get guests back over there..."
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

I don't think Intamin are innovators as such, but they are willing to push boundaries more than Vekoma and certainly more than B&M.

If you look at the standard installs.
Vekoma-SLCs and Boomerangs (and even the GIBs), they're not great rides in terms of comfort. They fit comfortably in a set, flat area of land and are mediocre/

B&M-The majority of their installs are across greenfield sites. They may not be flat (such as Nemesis and Black Mamba), but they rarely are crammed into an area where they have to interact with other rides or environmental obstacles. They're not all the same as they do follow different routes, but the actual pressures on B&M to force the coasters into something a little extreme, they just seem to avoid doing.

Intamin-Megalites? Rides like the Superman coasters and Expedition GE Force? Millennium Force? These are standard Intamin models and like B&M, they are working with a very open and easy path to route their coasters through. They simply don't have any issues with these coasters, they run as maintenance free as a B&M. Even the rocket coasters, which tend to put things under a lot of pressure, are pretty reliable- there's a payoff there for a serious 'popular' thrill ride against an extra bit of maintenance and the occasional cable snap.

Then look at the custom installs, the one offs or the special requests
Vekoma-Absolutely fantastic. They supply Disney with a great range of reliable coasters. RnR and EE you would never guess are made by the same company that produce Mind Eraser. It's almost as though they're slapdash in their standard production, but because they need to pay attention to special orders, they get it perfect. However, how many of those installs really push boundaries?

B&M-I can't think of anything they've done that really fits here. Daemonen? Nemesis as mentioned above? Even there though, they're working in a tight space, but not a particularly awkward one. Leviathan may fit in here, but they made the coaster just a larger version to sweep over things, that's an oddity I admit.

Intamin-This is where they seem to get it wrong. Or right, depending on your point of view. The flexibility of the company to produce what the park wants, and to cram in a coaster where they like is fantastic. However, pushing the boundaries means that they're always going into new territories in coaster design. So even if they are using a "standard" kind of model (like with i305, which kind of is), they're being asked to fit in a 300+ft coaster into a space that can't handle one. So they do their best. Volcano is a "dream" ride, in that it's the kind of ride somebody dreams about and thinks "this would be so cool" and it IS a cool ride. So yeah, I think if you look at the rides that are shoehorned in, or specials, they're doing the opposite of Vekoma, they're just not quite getting it right, but they are almost back to the drawing board each time.

It's all quite interesting I suppose, but if you ask somebody to push the envelope, then don't expect it to be smooth sailing all the way.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Intricks said:
Don't mix up a cautious perfectionist manufacturer with not being flexible.
Click to expand...

I did not say they were not flexible, I said they were nearly not as flexible as Intamin, witch they aren't.
If you're gonna quote me, then read it through first!
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Ah, I did...just took it in a different manner than what you meant :lol:

My bad :lol:
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season:

Haven't the holding brakes on the impulse coasters been a huge issue?

They're innovative, they're crazy, they execute. Yet the design is flawed.
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season | 2013 UPDATE

Springtime in the Park Update

Whatever problem Hershey has faced with Skyrush - it won't be solved for the spring.

Hersheypark holds a springtime preview in March and April. However, Skyrush has been removed from the list of open rides.

http://www.hersheyinthespring.com/hersheypark/index.php
 
Re: Skyrush is closed for this season | 2013 UPDATE

Wow. That's actually quite spectacular.
 
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