Shooting A Dream Down In Flames...

[Xpress]

It's most likely he will have to move wherever the company is in order to better accommodate the company. I.E. he would have to move somewhere near Sunbury PA if he wanted to work for GCI.

I would rather not have to commute for an hour or two just to get to work, then have to do that same commute to get home.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I've been commuting 2 hours to get to uni for the past 3 years, and it'll be similar journey to dream job. I alway think it's strange when people think a 2 hour commute is a lot. Suppose it is driving, but sometimes you just gotta do these things.

 

[Mark]

I did the 2 hour commute for 3 years to get to work at Madame Tussauds... Ultimately the 4 hour round trip 5 days a week began to outweigh what I was actually getting from the job (not to mention the cost of it). Was a shame because I was promised time at the Studios in Acton time and time again but nothing every materialised :-(

 

[SaiyanHajime]

One of those things you really have to become a nuisance for I guess Mark. Did you ever meet Paula Hurst?

When I had a placement at BSkyB in their creative dept, I would shyly ask if there was anything I could do or help with... And the management would be like "I'm just popping to a meeting, when I get back we'll sort out something!" And they just wouldn't return. Or when they did, they'd not come find me. And I was so scared of going up continually and asking. And when I finally did I would get another "Oh I've just gotta go and get myself some lunch..." and it got to the point where it felt so awkward to ask.

At the time I thought they were in the wrong and I was trying really hard. But now I know that it was my fault, I needed to work harder, you just have to keep going on, and on, and on at them until something materialises. It pays off. Once you have the courage to become a pain in the arse, it's surprisingly easy to get where you want to be.

It's just one of those awkward things you have to do to get by. I strongly recommend everyone gets a work placement at some **** company they don't care for before they pounce for higher ground so they can learn these mistakes for themselves.

 

[Mark]

Oh I was a nuisance, but the normal excuse, well Candy is really busy right with now with this project or that project etc. I probably gave it far too easily but financial situations also became a factor with costs for everything sky rocketing. I could no longer justify spending £3300 a year on the commute... No I didn't ever meet her no :-(

 

[Treeis]

If when im older, I had to do a 2 hour commute by train, that would be fine. I could get a lot of things done on a train with a laptop.

The money for it though would be an issue

 

[SaiyanHajime]

With the creative business, the money issue is one that comes up time and time again. At university, passed successful students almost always said "you pretty much have to work for free for a while" and someone in the class would pipe up with "...but how did you afford it?" and it becomes apparent very quickly that you have to be financially lucky to start with, or very, very organised from a young age. It seemed that people either had savings or worked literally 7 days a week (4-5 for free, and the other days minimum wage work) and ate little but bread for a year.

I'm not sure how it is with something like engineering, are unpaid internships practically the only way into the business? I was under the impression that with a meaningful degree in hand, internships aren't really necessary? I would have thought that any decent paying job would more than cover you for a commute. The problem with what Mark was doing is that it wasn't a fantastically paid job, but it was a heck of a trek and he felt like it wasn't going anywhere.

It's a shame you didn't get to meet Paula though Mark. From what I understand, she worked with Wardley on redeveloping Chessington to a theme park. I could be wrong though. She's now the creative director of Madame Tussauds. I don't doubt that Candy is extremely busy practically 24/7, they all seem to be pretty knee deep. I think I caught them at a pretty dead time of the year and got lucky. That's all this entire thing is really about, nagging... and luck.

EDIT: ANYONE interested in getting into the theme park business should so read this. http://www.themedattraction.com/design.htm

 

[Mark]

I'm not sure how it is with something like engineering, are unpaid internships practically the only way into the business? I was under the impression that with a meaningful degree in hand, internships aren't really necessary? I would have thought that any decent paying job would more than cover you for a commute. The problem with what Mark was doing is that it wasn't a fantastically paid job, but it was a heck of a trek and he felt like it wasn't going anywhere.

BINGO! Like I say, the train fare alone was costing £3300 a year. That is fine if you don't have any expenditures like mortgage/rent/food etc. If I was still living with my parents (perish the thought) it would have been a lot easier on a financial level. It didn't help that the economy went all screwy and things started costing far more then they were beforehand meaning the money I had left after the commute was not going as far.

I think the biggest problem was after a while I was getting the whole horse & dangling carrot scenario. I would have an appraisal/one to one meeting and tell them that I wasn't entirely happy, wanted more career progression etc - I had always made it very clear where I wanted to go. Initially after each meeting the manager would be all for helping, saying they would get me in touch with the people etc etc. I would feel a bit more motivated because things were 'finally' getting going. It never happened though, although he did give me John Wardleys email so I could contact him for advice.

It's a shame you didn't get to meet Paula though Mark. From what I understand, she worked with Wardley on redeveloping Chessington to a theme park. I could be wrong though. She's now the creative director of Madame Tussauds. I don't doubt that Candy is extremely busy practically 24/7, they all seem to be pretty knee deep. I think I caught them at a pretty dead time of the year and got lucky. That's all this entire thing is really about, nagging... and luck.

EDIT: ANYONE interested in getting into the theme park business should so read this. http://www.themedattraction.com/design.htm

It is indeed. People have asked me several times if I would ever go back and I'll be honest, if it was on the right terms, I would consider it. I remember the ops manager at the time saying that I would be back working for the company one day - whether for MT or not - he was sure I would be back...

It is funny you should mention nagging Joey. I did once consider pitching up at the Imagineering Studios when in California and basically refusing to leave until someone looked at my work but thought it would probably end with my arrest...

Cheers for the link too. I will look into it.

In other news, I was digging around looking at various bits and pieces and thought this might be of use to someone. It probably isn't ideal for me, since I am not a student, but it may be handy for one of you? http://disney.go.com/disneycareers/imaginations/
Entry has closed for this year but they do it every year...

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Joey, Engineering has lots of options really, and whilst internships are a big thing, the ones I looked at (in an attempt to get a placement this year) were all fully paid...

Art/Design is a very different kettle of fish compared to it after uni... Especially as Engineering is much less of a 'freelance' job in comparison and probably getting onto a graduate scheme at one company makes it easier to advance if you're any good...

Engineering (in the general sense) definitely doesn't require as much effort/research in comparison to others to get a generic job, but obviously if you want to work in a certain sector of it then you need to research more into it... Why else would I do Mechanical Engineering? It's the most jack of all trades course possible and means not every other avenue to me is closed...

 

[furie]

This is a great topic, excellent read

I'm kind of on the Gavin front here, but I think that it's less subtle than he makes out.

I've been reading (for example) Joey and Hixee's posts since they were "school teens". At no point have I ever looked at their posts and thought "there's somebody who will spend their lives flipping burgers". For a teenagers, they (and a lot of others) come across as thoughtful, intelligent and with a "background interest" in the hobby. They know the stuff that goes on and understand how it works behind the scenes. For a Joey or Hixee to post aged 15 "I'm working towards becoming a theme park designer/engineer", then you'd believe them and not shoot them down - simply because they not only "get it", but because they have intelligent thought and understanding.

When you see A-Kid's design work too, the stuff he does for "fun", you realise he has a creative talent and as Beans says, he's working through the system and has always understood how it works.

I guess the biggest issue is when people who have only been to Thorpe/Cedar Point come on and issue a statement like "i'm going to get a job in the industry making coasters because their really great fun to ride and i've made a new element on no limits that is well wicked". Then you fall rapidly into Gavin's point that they probably should be shot down, or at least ignored because it's going to readily come to light that it's a passing fad and the golden arches are calling them to a career in a hair net.

I mention Joey particularly, because (due to his dyslexia) his posts are often hit and miss in terms of English, it's not just about poor presentation of a post; if there's a really good idea or thought behind it, it shines through. So it's not just a superiority thing based on spelling/grammar (just thought I'd make it clear).

Other than that, the advice Joey gives is excellent and spot on, and I think it's a real shame that things haven't panned out for you so far Mark - often there's a lot of situations where time, money and location are just completely against you. It's gambling your life against a possible foot in the door for the future; something that you can only happily do if you have little to lose.

Have you not thought of approaching the design house at AI Mark to get into the industry?

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Ha, it's so obvious when I'm at a computer without a spell checker built into the browser or having a lazy posting spree.

 

[Mysterious Sue]

There's no such thing as luck Ciall...just a **** lot of hard work.
I believe nothing's impossible if you put your mind to it...just that many things are very improbable.

Yes Gavin, exam results are important (and extremely so in the engineering world) but you can have every qualification going and still not have the passion and enthusiasm to pull it off. It's about pushing and pushing till you make friends in the right places, and ignore all the haters along the way.

People told me I'd never be able to live in London, or own a sports car, or go to China, or cycle to work, or
live on a houseboat (ok so the last one I'm still working on). Every time I tell someone I want to live on a boat, they look at me like I'm mad, or give me a lecture about how I don't realise about all the hidden costs - like they've spent the hours and hours of research that I have to be able to advise me on the subject!

Just ignore the haters. Keep trying till you make it. And when you fail, try some more...

 

[Mark]

This is a great topic, excellent read

Other than that, the advice Joey gives is excellent and spot on, and I think it's a real shame that things haven't panned out for you so far Mark - often there's a lot of situations where time, money and location are just completely against you. It's gambling your life against a possible foot in the door for the future; something that you can only happily do if you have little to lose.

Have you not thought of approaching the design house at AI Mark to get into the industry?

I have indeed Phil. At the time they weren't looking for anyone at the time but I have someone there keeping an eye out etc.

At the moment I am just going to carry on working on the portfolio of concept ideas, artwork et al as I enjoy it. Anything after that I will run with.

PS. I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't talking about me personally with regards to negative responses etc, it was more something I had noticed happens in a more general sense but I do thank everyone for their support and advice all the same

 

[Gavin]

I believe nothing's impossible if you put your mind to it

Bollocks.

You can have all the passion and enthusiasm in the world, but without the goods to back it up (I'm not just talking about exam results), it's not going to happen.

Personally, I blame reality TV shows for the whole "you can all achieve your dream" bull **** that's forced down kids' throats. We're now living in a culture where people think they "deserve" some kind of recognition simply because they "want" it, when in actual fact they have no ability or talent in that area, and absolutely zero work ethic or idea of how the real world works.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I agree with Gavin on that last part.

However, I believe being passionate, dedicated, enthusiastic, determined, making friends in the right places etc is more useful than the grades or skills you have. It takes a great deal of both though.

At the end of the day, those who really want it and aren't delusional will get it, those who are delusional or don't want it enough won't. That simple really.

 

[Beans]

When you see A-Kid's design work too, the stuff he does for "fun", you realise he has a creative talent and as Beans says, he's working through the system and has always understood how it works.

Leigh can't comment for himself but thanks for that Phil, I know if Leigh had a chance he would love to work for Merlin Studios, he did Art and Design for his A's as well as Media Studies., and after what he did for Saw virals for the Park as well he does have contacts in other departments which his peers didn't actually know about when he started working there so that didn't have any influence on him getting employment.
As far as his Video Work, I have a work related friend who works for a company that does documentaries for Channel 4, i.e. The Last Flight of the Concorde and quite a few docs on plane disasters on Discovery Channels. She gave Leigh a lot of advice on Documenatry techniques after she saw some of his work and he put some of her ideas into the CF ones.
Only making this comment as it doesn't matter how many qualification you have(which I am not saying you don't need before it upsets) a bit of advice or help for someone who has been there done that and is successfull can help perfect and enhance skill learned through qualifications.
He took onboard a lot of things people also said about working in the Parks but it didn't put him off even if they were negative, he is prepared to learn and gain experience this way in whatever he does and however far it takes him, he is only 19 and is at the begining of his work life so if it takes a few years of being at the bottom he isn't worried, some people think the get rich quick way is the way but for those who the know the job that certainly is the way it works in the Theme Park industry.
He leaves home a 7am gets home at 8/8.30pm 100 mile round trip 2 hours travelling in each direct sometime quicker if the M25 is kind to him and £300 a month in petrol, I think that is called dedication...

 

[Gavin]

^Some practical advice in Leigh's case:

Would it not be beneficial to use the A levels he's got to get onto a degree course, and work at the park during holidays? That way he's getting the qualifications and the experience at the same time.

We've all seen his videos, and they're excellent, so surely developing those skills even further is going to be hugely beneficial. As nice as a bit of advice from people working in the industry is, it's not going to be as useful in the long run as some tangible qualifications. You've got to ask yourself how those people themselves got to the positions they're in.

I really don't want to put a downer on things (and Leigh definitely is not one of the clueless kids we've been talking about here), but a job as a ride op is highly, highly unlikely to result in a job for Merlin Studios. It could take years to even move up to some sort of area supervisor (or whatever term Thorpe uses), which is still a seasonal post.

It's great that he enjoys what he's doing and is dedicated to the job, but the fact is he could be doing that while also gaining qualifictions that could be instrumental in achieving a more long-term goal.

 

[Mysterious Sue]

I believe nothing's impossible if you put your mind to it

Bollocks.

Surely that's just the kind of thing this topic is trying to discourage. If you don't believe in yourself then how is it ever gonna happen?

I think people are getting confused - a dream is not the same thing as a business plan!
You shouldn't stamp on someone's dreams, they should be encouraged and nurtured at all costs.
But you can be as ruthless as possible with career advice - that's the only way to help.

I guess Gavin you're just too cynical and I'm just too full of blind optimism. Just think what balanced children we could have! :--D

 

[Gavin]

Cynical? Realistic? Same thing.

You shouldn't stamp on someone's dreams, they should be encouraged and nurtured at all costs.
But you can be as ruthless as possible with career advice - that's the only way to help.

Isn't that completely contradictory though? If you're encouraging and nurturing something that has no chance of happening, you're setting people up for a major disappointment. It's not about stamping on dreams.

 

[Mysterious Sue]

My dreams are something personal. If I dream of being a bus conductor it's got nothing to do with anyone else, or how many emails I send to the bus company. That's my dream.

If I ask you for advice on becoming a bus conductor and you find out I've never applied, then yes, by all means call me a moron!

I thought Mark was complaining that every time someone mentions their dream, they get laughed out of the topic. Surely there's nothing wrong with a bit of support?

EDIT: Anyway, totally agree about Leigh (if you are asking for advice lol!) There's no doubt that working in the parks is necessarily work experience, but surely he can do this part time while concentrating on qualifications or at least doing some kind of appropriate, creative internship.