Shooting A Dream Down In Flames...

[Mark]

After many years of being on this site and reading others I have come to notice something that happens, without fail, every single time a particular type of post is made.

As coaster/theme park/fun enthusiasts/fanboys/lovers a lot of us also go through that point where our dream job is something in the coaster industry. Whether it be a ride designer, ride company boss or all out theme park chain owner it happens now and again that someone utters the immortal words "I want to start my own theme park" (or similar). Personally I see nothing wrong with aiming high but for some reason it always illicits the same sort of reaction... "dream on, its never going to happen etc etc etc".

It is like an Eddie Izzard sketch come to life or something... "look, you are British, so scale it down a bit..." ( http://youtu.be/xGGeLHnDQk8 - if you wonder what on Earth that was about)

What I don't understand is why. Why is it that every time someone within the "enthusiast community" shares their dream, other people from the same community feel the need to shoot them down in flames?

Yes, we all know that the Leisure Attraction buisness is incredibly difficult and notoriously competitive (to be fair there are countless industries that are like this) but does that automatically mean that User A might as well give up before they have even had a chance to get going? Surely, with the numbers of "enthusiasts" that do want to get into the industry some of them must get through and start working their way up the ranks??? It actually frustrates me that people automatically assume, and post quite coldly, that they are essentially punching above their weight.

Yes, yes, I know we all have to be realistic about it. The chances of User A actually pulling it off are limited. Just like the chances of me getting to become an Disney Imagineer are incredibly limited, that doesn't mean I am just going to forget the notion and just settle for working as a Ride-Op or whatever.

Personally, I admire anyone who has high goals and plans to get there. Their dream may seem far fetched, but I don't truly know the person, or what they are capable of. For all we know, we could have the next John Wardley knocking around these boards... not that anyone would ever believe it of course. I would rather be supportive, remind them it is a long slog but with the right work they might just break through...

I could be really cynical and say that the "pffft, get real" reaction is that of someone else who had the dream and failed and therefore would resent anyone else making it but surely not everyone is that petty? :roll:

I daresay John Wardley had a few doubters around him when he was starting out and it is well known that Walt Disney had them too, but thankfully it didn't stop them. I bet all those that did are kicking themselves a little perhaps?

I just don't get it, why are "enthusiasts" so eager to shoot anothers dreams down in flames?

 

[gavin]

Personally, I admire anyone who has high goals and plans to get there.

I think a lot of the time, the goals are there without the actual plans, and that's where the "get real" reactions come into it.

There's nothing wrong with thinking big, but there's also nothing wrong with a dose of reality either, though you're right that things could be done in a more tactful, even helpful, way.

Personally, I'd have more respect for the ideas if there were some kind of general plan, or even any knowledge of the industry other than "I like coasters, so I'll open a theme park".

Even the "big hitters" you mentioned didn't go about things that way: the Disney parks came thanks to the animation, and Wardley (a consultant, not a theme park mogul) came from movie special effects.

I do completely get your point, but I think the naiveity and lack of knowledge, or any real plan on how to achieve the goals, is what annoys people and causes the "cold" reactions.

 

[Mark]

I agree Gavin, the naiveity and lack of knowledge or any real plan could annoy people... but then, if I had a massive career plan and how was I going to achieve it would I really want to give it out to a group of people who quite likely have very similar career objectives? I don't think I would, if you get me? And even if I did reveal some of the plans, I don't think I would go massively into detail because why would I?

As I say, I do still dream of being a Disney Imagineer and I do have a chunk of 'plans' (idealistic to say the least of course) should I ever get one of those right place right time moments I hear so much about. (I gave up the idea of focusing solely on that dream when reality dicatated that I also needed to eat food and have a roof overhead etc.) Will I reveal them here so some other plank could find them and claim it as their own?.. heck no.

 

[gavin]

That's understandable, but I'm not talking about giving away any life-changing ideas or a detailed plan of action. I'm talking along the lines of having a general knowledge of what's needed to get into the jobs people (let's be honest here, usually the younger members) often talk about.

For example, roller coaster designer: Engineering degree as a basic minimum, which means 2 maths and physics at A-level (minimum) with straight A grades. If you're not getting A* at GCSE in those subjects, forget it.

Too many people seem to think that liking something and being good at RCT or No Limits is somehow going to get them into that job, and it won't.

 

[lakeccrunner]

I think that sometimes people don't realize what kind of work that it is going to take. Sometimes people think if they have a moderate understanding of physics and can build a good track in NL, they think they have what it takes to be the next John Wardley. I'm not saying that this warrants the type of responses these individuals recieve, but they do need to be told that the chances of them making it in the field are very low.

Edit: Beat me to it...

 

[Nic]

When I was 5, I wanted to work in a bank
When I was 11, I wanted to be a maths teacher
When I was 13, I wanted to be an actuary
When I was 14, I wanted to be a kayak instructor
When I was 15, I wanted to be a music journalist
When I was 17, I wanted to be a web designer
When I was 20, I wanted to be an ICT Teacher
When I was 24, I wanted to be an ICT Technician
When I was 26, I wanted to be a Service Desk Manager

You get the idea. There's very few people who, at 13 years old, know exactly what they want to do, and end up actually doing it later in life. Yes, for the particular career path in question, most people who end up doing it have held the dream since they were very young. However, as previously mentioned, they mould their entire life around it, and will already have a good knowledge of how to get there, even at that age. All their educational, work experience, hobby and career choices are geared around their one goal. Even then, many of them will be unsuccessful.

I'm all for people following their dream, but I get the feeling that, for many who post on here, it's not a lifelong dream, but more of a whim. In a year or so, many of them will have forgotten that they ever even considered such a career. Therefore, why should we pander to the whims of a few kids who are enthusiastic now, but will quickly move onto something else? If they were really that serious, they wouldn't be on here asking us what they need to do to reach their goal, because they'd already know the answer.

PS. Only 3 of my chosen vocations listed above actually happened.

 

[Mark]

Therefore, why should we pander to the whims of a few kids who are enthusiastic now, but will quickly move onto something else?

Ok, I totally get that, but thats kinda my point. Nobody wants to (or is expected to) pander to the dreams and whims of anyone but then why take time out of their day to do the complete opposite, post and trash the person for it and just generally be negative.

Its just one of those things that I has always irked me. As an enthusiast I've thought it was a positive thing that people want to get into the industry and although I know they have the slimmest possible chance of even the oppurtunity to get close, I just think good luck to you mate; I hope you follow through on it and leave it at that.

Like I say, its a just a common thing I have noticed on a few boards and Ive seen it done to a few people over the years and always wondered why...

 

[SaiyanHajime]

As usual a stellar post from you Mark, you really should be writing more on the subject. Start a theme park blog for christ sake.

My issue with people with such high aspirations is they aren't trying to reach them hard enough, they are always expecting someone to tell them how to get there or find the easy route. Myself included.

I went through a faze a couple of years ago where desperately searched the web for any info regarding how to get a job in the creative side of the industry. I found very little info, but tonnes of people asking. I emailed various companies with no reply. Why do you think that is? Those who've found a way in hardly want to share it with the world, because then it would be even harder. Those who have the information aren't willing to share it, because it's worth a LOT. It turns out that usually, the answer your looking for isn't hard to find - it just requires effort on your own part and in the case specific to myself a bit of thought, networking and harassing the hell out of everyone.

For people who want to own and run their own park one day, well... it's not going to happen if we're realistic about it, but if they REALLY wanted to make it happen they'd be reading every book vaguely on the subject of architectural and landscape design, themed environment design, business studies, researching online and generally finding out how to make it happen. But they don't.

I see the same thing all the time with the art community. "I want to have my own comic series!", "I want to have my own animation studio!" Very, ver few people put in the effort needed. I certainly don't put anywhere near the effort I really should, but I realised a long time ago now that the answers are not hard to find, it's quite simply called "effort".

So for me it's about being irritated by the obvious lack of effort, and about being realistic. So few people have the determination required to make such huge dreams possible. So, so, so few... So few that it's highly unlikely that said individual is one of them, and it's even less likely they are determined AND have the talents/skills to make it happen.

Also, in addition to what Gavin covered - I've noticed that people who are innovative and successful usually come from a seemingly alien field of expertee. This is because they are bringing something new to a stale idea. That's what made Disney such a success - people thought Disney would fail due to his lack of viceral thrill rides, but he brought in conventions of cinema to the amusement park concept. And in the case of Wardly he used his background knowledge to find ways go about creating similar things to Disney with a tiny budget. I saw the same thing with successful passed students of my course who came back to talk to us. NONE OF THEM were still doing typical illustration. One was a puppet and costume maker for theatre and such, and the other was a graphic designer. Both applied their knowledge and experience in illustration to a different field and it gave them the edge.

In my experience it's about finding a place somewhere that feels "right". I'd never considered merging my love for image making with my love for theme parks until recently, because it would have felt forced. There came a point through my love for the concept art and design work of other people on ConceptArt.org, especially environment design, where It felt appropriate and I saw a place that might be suitable for me to merge my interests, bringing in my knowledge from other areas of interest. I wasn't looking for it.

 

[Beans]

I know a lot of people don't rate Thorpe let alone Merlin but Leigh has said ever since he was 13 he wanted to work at Thorpe. He just wanted to be there with the rides and be part of it. He has luckily had the fortune of being in email contact with John Wardley and his advice to anyone entering the Theme Park industry to Leigh was to start at the bottom, learn the industry from working with and one the rides then if you rise to bigger things in the industry you should alway respect and know what it feels like for those at the bottom unlike those fastracked by higher levels of education, and he has A's, AS, and GCSE's, of good grades to get him by.
He obviously now has that base and for what it is worth he loves every minute of it, he gets on very well with his peers and Team Leaders(not going into to much detail). He just wanted a break, what he aspires to after this who knows, he has ambitions in this line but you have to make these work, then as Nic says set another goal. He doesn't look beyond being a host for now but he has gained life experiences, being such a shy boy before as most CF'rs know, especially Mark and Nic who have both worked along side of him in what he has done on CF and Nic before hand, he has opened up and become so much more confident, these qualities are worth more at the moment to him than climbing the ladder.

As far as myself I wanted to be and artist, painting, design etc when I left school, may parents were to poor for me to stay on at school, so my path was set before me to not aspire to be this, probably why I now do photograpy as a hobby, and ended up in preschool education.

 

[Brookes]

I totally agree with Mark's initial post, too many people get shot down when others really know nothing about them. It is the case that many won't get into the industry but I have thought recently that yes someone from here could become a big name in the industry - we just don't know it yet.

That's understandable, but I'm not talking about giving away any life-changing ideas or a detailed plan of action. I'm talking along the lines of having a general knowledge of what's needed to get into the jobs people (let's be honest here, usually the younger members) often talk about.

For example, roller coaster designer: Engineering degree as a basic minimum, which means 2 maths and physics at A-level (minimum) with straight A grades. If you're not getting A* at GCSE in those subjects, forget it.

Too many people seem to think that liking something and being good at RCT or No Limits is somehow going to get them into that job, and it won't.

If those asking for advice give their educational status shall we say, then that's a fair comment if they don't have a clue. But others, I feel maybe myself, may not be taken realistically by people who don't know them as they don't share their "plans".

I guess the point I am trying to get at is that some people with aims may not share what they can do already and are wrongly, poorly judged and receive such reactions.

 

[Mark]

Very well put Joey. I totally see where you are coming from there. Who would have thought that such an intellectual discussion would turn up on CF

I guess the point I am trying to get at is that some people with aims may not share what they can do already and are wrongly, poorly judged and receive such reactions.

Precisely my point right too...

 

[Xpress]

I have to agree with what has been said. Mostly I shoot people down because they lack a logical plan that maps out what they plan to do. It's great that you want to become head Imagineer at Disney. And I believe that if you take the correct steps, get the right degrees and start out in the right areas, maybe by the time you're 50 you can have a very high position within the company.

 

[Mark]

Don't get me wrong, I am under no illusions about getting there... I have never really mentioned it and no one has ever said to me 'dream on' or been particularly negative towards me. I did the topic because I have seen it done to several other people on this site (and others I hasten to add) over the years.

 

[ciallkennett]

I can see why people would shoot them down, but people must realise that it is a dream just like winning the lottery, and that although we may all think about what we would build, why and everything down to the small details like we do when saying what we would do if we were millionaires, nobody expects it to happen and it's all just a bit of fun and creativity. I think people shouldn't shoot people down on their imagination and creativity.

Personally, I've never wanted to own a theme-park, however, I have "dreamed" about owning a B&M on a large plot of my own land and spiting people like Ben, Tomatron, Robb Alvey and others from riding it - and thus not getting the 'cred' - just to spite them. I know that'll never happen, but the thought of it and thinking about what kind of B&M I'd like is all a bit of fun to me

 

[Treeis]

Since I was little, I wanted to design rollercoasters. A few years on, that dream still lives on. I am pretty good at maths (A* GCSE predicted) and not bad at physics (B or A), and im planning to take engineering as a university course.

Im not sure what anyone else thinks, but I really feel passionate about getting a job at intamin or B&M or whatever.

And because I enjoy designing rollercoasters, it means I enjoy engineering, which means if for some reason I dont get my dream job, I can always fall back on something else engineering based.

But yeah, you could be talking to a future intamin worker, or head of Treeis rides...

 

[jayjay]

^ Engineering (any specialisation) in general is a great degree to have anyway. Shows good numerical skills and most try to promote teamwork and organisational skills. That's one good thing about trying to convince people to chase their dreams rather than piss all over them. Often when they don't get there, they'll find they've got themselves on a really good career path in the process.

 

[Treeis]

Exactly ^ I couldn't have put it better myself

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

I think what many people don't realise is how difficult it is to get really far in the coaster industry... It's all well and good working as a host/op, but it takes a LOT of effort (or befriending/knowing the right people, but that's another story) to get further up to Team Leader and onwards... It takes TIME and enthusiasm to NOT want to be a rides team leader for the rest of your life...

The main issue I think is actually getting into the companies themselves... I doubt they just employ anyone and (to use Joey as an example) it can take FOREVER just to get one foot in the door of the company and a specific department itself... And that involves so much effort and time and possibly even harrassment it's something I think many don't think is an issue...

Whilst Merlin do a graduate scheme (though the page for it atm is DIRE), I reckon it attracts a LOT of people going for it from various backgrounds and industries, so it is difficult to even get into those things...

So in the end, I think a lot of people don't realise the amount of effort that is generally required to enter the ride (or indeed, ANY) industry... A sense of reality is often applied to people (particularly on the posts that caused this topic) in order to make them realise that it's not as simple as they may think... I don't see it as crushing dreams, I see it as that kind of "Blunt Realism" of "This is the way the world works in reality" thing... Or sommat...

 

[Treeis]

Doesn't putting in the time and the effort and knowing the right people seperate the passionate people from the ones who decide "Oh, that job sounds fun".

If I had to move to America I would. I am confident I can work in something rides-based

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Doesn't putting in the time and the effort and knowing the right people seperate the passionate people from the ones who decide "Oh, that job sounds fun".

Yup, which is why people are so reluctant to share information on "how to" get into the business. But it's so infuriating to read it over and over, especially if you're someone who has/is trying.

If I had to move to America I would. I am confident I can work in something rides-based

It's more likely you'd have to move into central Europe, surely?