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Phantasialand | F. L. Y. | Vekoma Launched Flying Coaster | 2020

No matter how hard I hope for an opening coming summer, realistically it can not be ready before 2020 or the site must progress very fast from now on.

But I read today that Tivoli Gardens in Denmark are going to build a new roller coaster which they want to open in the winter of 2019.

I hope that Phantasialand just would do the same, during Wintertraum, if Rookburgh would be ready by then.
 
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No matter how hard I hope for an opening coming summer, realistically it can not be ready before 2020.

But I read today that Tivoli Gardens in Denmark are going to build a new roller coaster which they want to open in the winter of 2019.

I hope that Phantasialand just would do the same, during Wintertraum, if Rookburgh would be ready by then.
At best, I guess we are looking at a Rookburgh soft-opening during Wintertraum 2019? I am, too, convinced that F.L.Y will open (at least officially) in 2020. Phantasialand are known for not rushing any of their projects and not cutting corners, and that's why they are praised so much among most enthusiasts.
 
At best, I guess we are looking at a Rookburgh soft-opening during Wintertraum 2019? I am, too, convinced that F.L.Y will open (at least officially) in 2020. Phantasialand are known for not rushing any of their projects and not cutting corners, and that's why they are praised so much among most enthusiasts.
I know they're not rushing any project.

However, someone called traveler, active on another site, said: "they have announced a hotel probably follow the latest date of German residence law (6 months before opening)". Someone who is into this knowledge and can tell if that's true?
 
I know they're not rushing any project.

However, someone called traveler, active on another site, said: "they have announced a hotel probably follow the latest date of German residence law (6 months before opening)". Someone who is into this knowledge and can tell if that's true?
The regulation is probably more like "not less than 6 months before opening" - so it's possibly not as revealing as we might hope. They could have announced the hotel when they did to keep the excitement up (I question if they needed to do that... :p ), with further announcements coming over the next few months. Or they did it so they had control over the message, rather than a load of enthusiasts guessing (and spoiling the surprise) based on the structures being erected.
 
The regulation is probably more like "not less than 6 months before opening" - so it's possibly not as revealing as we might hope. They could have announced the hotel when they did to keep the excitement up (I question if they needed to do that... :p ), with further announcements coming over the next few months. Or they did it so they had control over the message, rather than a load of enthusiasts guessing (and spoiling the surprise) based on the structures being erected.

The structures on site are for most people still too unclear to find out for sure that it will be a hotel.

Moreover, it's only us, coaster enthousiasts, who are speculating about what arises on the site but the everyday visitor who does not even know that Rookburgh is being built untill they visit the park and see the billboard. They don't look up more information on the internet like we do. They don't speculate and after all it would be still pure speculation without this announcement of Charles Lindbergh.

For them it's also not a surprise, they don't keep talking about it over and over again like we do, it's just like "Hey, Phantasialand opens a new coaster and hotel" - "oh, cool" and not more than that. So controlling the message before rumours find their way to the public? I don't think Phantasialand looks at it like this.

So, your point of view disregarded (which could be possible but I doubt that), I wonder why they have not waited a little longer with this announcement a few months.

Maybe they have no strategy at al, they only want to fool Phantasialand fans like us and let us speculate for years like it's now going on here. Haha.

And for the people who read this and think:" Phantasialand no strategy? No way." Not having a strategy is also a strategy. So actually they do have one. ;)

And okay yes, maybe I just said irrelevant stuff (like many posts on here but that's where this sites are about) but I'm still not convinced they will definitely wait another year with Rookburgh to open. The time period between Klugheim and this development is too big if 2020 is the opening year. A park which want to set a high standard and want to stay in competition with other big parks, has to open up something new in maximum 3 years.

Also, in 2020 it are mostly the big parks which are opening something new.

Efteling is opening dueling powered coasters in 2020. Europa-Park is opening the new Piraten in Batavia in 2020. The first step in the masterplan for the redevelopment and expansion of Walt Disney Studios Park in Disneyland Paris: the transformation of Rock 'n Rollercoaster and it's area into Marvel.

In my point of view, going into this competitive year is equal to ending up in the end of the tournament. Daily visitors visit one or two themeparks a year so they have to choose. When they choose for the bigger ones like Europa-Park, Efteling or Disneyland Paris, they forgot about Rookburgh.

Maybe it has no effect on the number of visitors for Phantasialand, if they open Rookburgh in 2020 as well but I guess it will. Not much but still.
 
From a marketing perspective I'm doubtful they'd do a Wintertraum 19 opening. The event simply being what it is, is a big enough pull for loads of guests. Marketing the 2020 summer season from the very beginning with F.L.Y. as the big new draw for guests would be more effective.
2018 saw them introduce a few more different offers for tickets and such to draw people in during a quiet year; which seemingly was rather successful. If there's nothing new for 2019 I imagine they may simply repeat that. Or perhaps the park do have something small planned?
Otherwise this gap between Klugheim and Rookburgh will be the longest period of time the park has ever went without adding a new attraction. But then considering the gap is inbetween their two largest investments by far its understandable. Also it could very possibly be that Rookburgh was hoped/intended for summer 2019 but as rumoured at the time they suffered serve delays with the groundwork in 2017 (similar to those delays Liseberg suffered with Valkyria's but on a such larger scale) - in which case it was just unlucky.

Also, in 2020 it are mostly the big parks which are opening something new.

Efteling is opening dueling powered coasters in 2020. Europa-Park is opening the new Piraten in Batavia in 2020. The first step in the masterplan for the redevelopment and expansion of Walt Disney Studios Park in Disneyland Paris: the transformation of Rock 'n Rollercoaster and it's area into Marvel.

In my point of view, going into this competitive year is equal to ending up in the end of the tournament. Daily visitors visit one or two themeparks a year so they have to choose. When they choose for the bigger ones like Europa-Park, Efteling or Disneyland Paris, they forgot about Rookburgh.

Maybe it has no effect on the number of visitors for Phantasialand, if they open Rookburgh in 2020 as well but I guess it will. Not much but still.
I wouldn't see a 2020 opening as bad for them. I don't see Disney Paris being serious competition to PHL, especially just the distance.
While their actual competition; the parks in the local German/Benlux area have nothing major planned. I highly doubt the appeal of F.L.Y. and the target audience of families with older children (who knows what the height restriction will be), teens and adults. would be deterred by Efteling's small kids coaster or EP reopening a dark ride. Obviously we don't know yet whether Toverland or Movie Park Germany are doing anything significant then but I doubt it.
2021 is the year to avoid at all costs - that's when Efteling have their major new coaster/area, Walibi Belgium's Intamin Mega and possibly Europa Park's new coaster and themed area open.

As for why they announced Hotel Charles Lindbergh when they did: I'd say Hixee has hit the nail on the head there. Firstly, other than the unveiling of the Berlin street gateway, it has been a year since we received any Rookburgh news officially. Give the fans something more to talk about.
Secondly, as is the case with most of their announcements, we will soon be seeing signs of the Hotel construction and the secret would be out anyway. This way they have control/own the news. Once the steel structure for holding the Tube Rooms, and the rooms themselves, start to appear on site we would have quickly figured it out.
Raik was only announced a couple of weeks before the supports arrived on site and erection started.
F.L.Y. was only announced a month before the erection of the first supports and track.

Also I wouldn't think the announcement it has any bearing on the regulations and time scale for when it opens.

For comparison Europa Park's new Hotel Kronasar opens 31st May 2019 and started taking bookings back in August 2018. Yet was announced years before, although the name and theme announcement was only in September 2017.
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Or to time travel over 10 years back to when Hotel Matamba was built… Shortly after the start of construction of the hotel was officially announced 12th June 2007.
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Matamba opened 23rd August 2008. The opening date was announced and bookings started to be taken on 19th June 2008.

Will be interesting though to see when they start taking bookings. Given the nature of the build and the emphasis placed in the press releases on Rookburgh being a "gesamtprojekt" it will undoubtedly all open at the same time - so I imagine it won't massively far in advance like EP until they know for certain everything will be done and operational. However given they will be wanting people to book hotel stays I can't see the opening announcement being as shortly before/only 3 weeks in advance as with Klugheim/Taron. Maybe by the end of Wintertraum 19/20 we might get confirmation of a start of the 2020 season opening? Or if it does by some miracle open before then, a couple of months beforehand later this year.
 
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I enrolled for university the day F.L.Y. was announced and will probably be working on my bachelor thesis when this opens. Absolutely crazy to think about the effort Phantasialand has and is putting into this (especially compared to my half-arsed studies happening in the meantime lol).
 
Pretty crazy indeed, if each Phantasialand projects take so much time, I'm expecting them to have a continuous stream of new stuff being built all the time!
 
Otherwise this gap between Klugheim and Rookburgh will be the longest period of time the park has ever went without adding a new attraction.

What I'm wondering at this point now that a 2020 opening appears to be most likely is if Rookburgh will remain an isolated project, or if the Berlin area itself will receive an overhaul within the next 15-16 months that are still left.

If the Charles Lindbergh hotel is actually going to be a "budget"-hotel with aeronaut-pods and not much else to do, then the surrounding area must be capable to entertain the people staying overnight for reasonably longer than the park is going to be open, and since F.L.Y. most definitely will have at least a 130cm height restriction, extra ride time alone is not going to cut it.

That's where the Berlin-area might come in handy though, as it has plenty of restaurants and cafes which can easily be turned into proper evening-locations, they have the Wintergarten which is (if I recall correctly) their highest capacity theatre, but more importantly, they have a 4D-cinema that hasn't been touched since basically the stone age. It's a common theme for Phantasialand to leave things be for as long as possible, until they are worthy of a complete overhaul, so this is certainly something I could see combined within the Rookburgh-opening: getting Berlin ready to serve as an evening resort-location.

That way the pathway from Africa to Berlin that barely anone uses would serve more purpose as well. I believe that Phantasialand always had plans for a Berlin hotel at some point and built that pathway accordingly, since it also connects nicely with the Matamba-entrance through Black Mamba's loop (as long as they can get permission to use it again).

The more important aspect would be a new main entrance though. If we look at Klugheim, it connects nicely to mystery castle which used to be sitting in a dead end towards the mystery entrance (not really, but it was connected to the western town which was pretty dead - especially compared to Klugheim) so now with that busy circle-pathway through entire Mystery, that entrance is somewhat obsolete. Then we have the boring wall towards the Obstwiesen, and now that we have learnt how much Phantasialand values its walls, I would be suprised if it was meant to stay for more than 5 years. A new park entrance on that empty space would connect superbly with the wide stairway towards the Kaiserplatz. Right now it's pretty pointless and therefore nobody goes there, but head up there during your next visit and take notice of the view and presentation of the Kaiserplatz from up there, and then compare that to the view you get from the current Berlin entrance. You can clearly tell that the Kaiserplatz was designed to be entered from exactly up there.

A new park entrance might be a big deal structurally, but not in terms of construction effort, since most of the groundwork is already laid out, so all that would be required is a sexy entrance gate. The parking lot is already there, the facade from inside the park is already there, the busiest entrance is just around the corner and has already been disintegrated from the path layout (meaning is does not form a dead end like most park entrances do).

The only remaining issue would be that even though a new Berlin entrance gate would be much larger and therefore have a higher capacity than the currently improvised entrance ways, closing of the china entrance without any need is kinda dumb since it still serves a purpose for crowd control. But then again, what was rumored to be the next big project after Rookburgh? Something with China? A somewhat complicated attraction probably requiring to rip the entire plaza out?

I mean, I might be seeing things here that are just not as evident as I make them sound, but I certainly do feel like that we will see structural changes very soon, somewhen between Rookburgh and whatever will come after that.
 
The more important aspect would be a new main entrance though. If we look at Klugheim, it connects nicely to mystery castle which used to be sitting in a dead end towards the mystery entrance (not really, but it was connected to the western town which was pretty dead - especially compared to Klugheim) so now with that busy circle-pathway through entire Mystery, that entrance is somewhat obsolete. Then we have the boring wall towards the Obstwiesen, and now that we have learnt how much Phantasialand values its walls, I would be suprised if it was meant to stay for more than 5 years. A new park entrance on that empty space would connect superbly with the wide stairway towards the Kaiserplatz. Right now it's pretty pointless and therefore nobody goes there, but head up there during your next visit and take notice of the view and presentation of the Kaiserplatz from up there, and then compare that to the view you get from the current Berlin entrance. You can clearly tell that the Kaiserplatz was designed to be entered from exactly up there.
Do you mean PHL will shift towards 1 new main entrance and get rid of the other 3? Could be, but heavily doubt that. Okay PHL is super small and the 2 furthest attractions aren't more than 10 mins away from each other, but the way the crowd is controlled (to use your words) right now is perfect. Only the fantasy area needs some time before it gets busy. (And Africa, but I mean, that's just one rollercoaster, yet it is quickly accesible trought the main gate)

And just adding that new entrance you mention (and removing the current Main gate) is also nothing I see happening pretty soon. That parking space is all perfectly connected with the Mystery entrance. Maybe they will make the gate at mystery bigger though.

Also. The way you enter Berlin now is aestethically and in terms of excitement the best way, except for those stupid steps. You enter through a nice looking avenue, yet you see the vibrant life already in the back, rushing your excitement to the max.
Having the gate where you say would just drop you in the vibrant part of Berlin and no real excitement building happens. But that is what I think at least.
 
Do you mean PHL will shift towards 1 new main entrance and get rid of the other 3? Could be, but heavily doubt that. Okay PHL is super small and the 2 furthest attractions aren't more than 10 mins away from each other, but the way the crowd is controlled (to use your words) right now is perfect. Only the fantasy area needs some time before it gets busy. (And Africa, but I mean, that's just one rollercoaster, yet it is quickly accesible trought the main gate)

And just adding that new entrance you mention (and removing the current Main gate) is also nothing I see happening pretty soon. That parking space is all perfectly connected with the Mystery entrance. Maybe they will make the gate at mystery bigger though.

Also. The way you enter Berlin now is aestethically and in terms of excitement the best way, except for those stupid steps. You enter through a nice looking avenue, yet you see the vibrant life already in the back, rushing your excitement to the max.
Having the gate where you say would just drop you in the vibrant part of Berlin and no real excitement building happens. But that is what I think at least.

Sure, crowd control is nice and all, but considering how places like Europa Park do perfectly fine with one single entrance, I don't think that it is a serious concern for Phantasialand. It's a "nice to have" right now, but it also has plenty of drawbacks, mainly being that 90% of guests enter the park through pretty much no entrance at all, which is somewhat shocking considering how serious they take their theme-park game otherwise but then "fail" so dramatically in one of the theme park 101 perks: the main gate. Before people even knew what theming was, they already made sure that their entrances were pretty, flashy and drew attention. Neither the Mystery, nor the China entrance has any of that.

I agree with your assessment of the Berlin entrance, however nobody uses that one honestly, except for the few nerds who arrive at 9am. The car park is on the opposite side of the park, and - especially in germany, with the park being 500m from a highway-exit - that means people are going to use those opposite entrances mostly. And they do not provide any of your "attention-building", I would rater call it an "oh wow okay, suddenly I'm in this theme park".

Phantasialand also always has had some issues with wheelchair accessibility which is mainly due to its wonky path-layout, and germany is pretty strict in enforcing accessibility-standards for public places. Being dependant on elevators for your "main entrance" is completely unacceptable, and I would assume that they assured the government that the Berlin entrance does barely get any traffic, so nobody really cares about this unfortunate situation. And the Kaiserplatz-stairway has ramps. Huge and wide ramps suitable for wheelchairs, families with buggies and whatnot. It even has a driveway which could be used for ambulances since the Kaiserplatz is the most central point of the park that can be reasonably driven to in case of an emergency. Those are not coincidences, the Kaiserplatz was redesigned back during the years when Phantasialand was really good at building facades, but did not treat them as functional or threedimensional buildings (they introduced that with Klugheim). They clearly designed that stairways as a possible main-entrance and made it future-proof complying with all possible accessibility-regulations.

I mean, the 4D cinema is just across and still rotting away. They certainly did not have money to splurge when they remade Berlin a few years ago.
 
I would hate an entrance at the back of Berlin, it just wouldn't feel right. How it is now isn't the best because of the road but it has the reveal, the walk down the street and Wellenflug acting as a weenie. If you entered from the other way I honestly don't think there would be as much to entice you down to the Carousel, you'd go left to Mexico, right to Fantasy or into Rookburgh.
 
How it is now isn't the best because of the road but it has the reveal, the walk down the street and Wellenflug acting as a weenie. If you entered from the other way I honestly don't think there would be as much to entice you down to the Carousel, you'd go left to Mexico, right to Fantasy or into Rookburgh.

Now you enter the current main entrance but even now it is very quiet and not so tempting to go in the mainstreet and to the Pferdekarussell. If in the future an expansion takes place on the other side of the Berggeiststraße, the current main entrance serves as a gateway to the expansion and it is tempting to go there.

As Fluorineer said, I also believe the Kaizerplatz is redeveloped with an eye on a main entrance on this side. The bus parking which moved next to the other parking lots. It's not coincidence. A high standard park which create detailed themed areas, isn't going to keep the ugly, dated entrances, or at least not the Mystery one. This is an entrance that Phantasialand never can make to their standards. In my opinion it's also just a weird place to enter the park.

It can take years until the issues with the parking lot owners and stuff are over, but I see this new entrance being built sooner or later.

A new entrance building at the current main entrance is excluded when they want to expand at this side, which is actually the only side to where they can expand if they win the battle after decades of competition for this piece of land.
 
since F.L.Y. most definitely will have at least a 130cm height restriction

I'm curious to hear what makes you so sure about that - I don't have confirmation about height restrictions, but considering Formula and Lech are only 120cm, as well as the upcoming Suspended Thrill Coasters, I wouldn't rule out a lower height limitation for F.L.Y. as well. Vekoma clearly seems to work their new vest restraints to accomodate a larger audience - another selling point for their next gen products.
 
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I'm curious to hear what makes you so sure about that - I don't have confirmation about height restrictions, but considering Formula and Lech are only 120cm, as well as the upcoming Suspended Thrill Coasters, I wouldn't rule out a lower height limitation for F.L.Y. as well. Vekoma clearly seems to work their new vest restraints to accomodate a larger audience - another selling point for their next gen products.

It's mainly due to my lack of confidence in the German TÜV, especially considering their history with Phantasialand. They set Chiapas to 120cm despite Atlantica Supersplash being suitable for children of 100cm height, which is somewhat ridiculous.

Looking at how Chiapas' restraint-system works, I would even say that it becomes more and more unsafe the taller you are, but that's a topic for another time :p

And you also have to consider that on Lech and Formula, the vest just has to fit the chest, while on F.L.Y. it will be the primary restraint and carry the majority of your body's weight. I feel like that would require a little more than your head barely being able to stick out of the cutout.
 
The guy who said that they didn't have an opening date/ fully worked out schedule seems to be right. ;-)
Just want to highlight, once again, that you're wrong. Give it a rest mate, you're embarrassing yourself.

Just because it might not open in 2019, doesn't mean they haven't got a programme. They know if they're aiming for 2019 or 2020, as they'll have all of the detailed plans of works listed out. They've just chosen not to share that with anyone else yet.
 
Sure, crowd control is nice and all, but considering how places like Europa Park do perfectly fine with one single entrance, I don't think that it is a serious concern for Phantasialand. It's a "nice to have" right now, but it also has plenty of drawbacks, mainly being that 90% of guests enter the park through pretty much no entrance at all, which is somewhat shocking considering how serious they take their theme-park game otherwise but then "fail" so dramatically in one of the theme park 101 perks: the main gate. Before people even knew what theming was, they already made sure that their entrances were pretty, flashy and drew attention. Neither the Mystery, nor the China entrance has any of that.

I agree with your assessment of the Berlin entrance, however nobody uses that one honestly, except for the few nerds who arrive at 9am. The car park is on the opposite side of the park, and - especially in germany, with the park being 500m from a highway-exit - that means people are going to use those opposite entrances mostly. And they do not provide any of your "attention-building", I would rater call it an "oh wow okay, suddenly I'm in this theme park".

Phantasialand also always has had some issues with wheelchair accessibility which is mainly due to its wonky path-layout, and germany is pretty strict in enforcing accessibility-standards for public places. Being dependant on elevators for your "main entrance" is completely unacceptable, and I would assume that they assured the government that the Berlin entrance does barely get any traffic, so nobody really cares about this unfortunate situation.
The Berlin entrance is still rather busy. The shuttle buses from Bruhl train and tram stations, Hotel Matamba guests, guests from the Coach/Bus car park (since they are not allowed to go through the China car park to enter there), holders of annual passes from EP + Efteling, and people who are simply dropped off and picked up there all use it. I enter regularly through it and its packed most days. Its not possible of course due to the road, but if anything they need more space there for the crowd in front.
It is by no means obsolete.
Also not quite sure what you mean about a wheelchair situation in reference to the Berlin entrance. There is a perfectly suitable ramp into the park there.

And VikingsAF's point about crowd control is pretty important. Other parks aren't as small with as narrow pathways. And I would disagree with the statement that Europa does fine with just one. I found the entrance and main street very crowded and difficult to navigate through on my last visit, and some of my family even remarked that they preferred PHL's set up.

And the Kaiserplatz-stairway has ramps. Huge and wide ramps suitable for wheelchairs, families with buggies and whatnot. It even has a driveway which could be used for ambulances since the Kaiserplatz is the most central point of the park that can be reasonably driven to in case of an emergency. Those are not coincidences, the Kaiserplatz was redesigned back during the years when Phantasialand was really good at building facades, but did not treat them as functional or threedimensional buildings (they introduced that with Klugheim). They clearly designed that stairways as a possible main-entrance and made it future-proof complying with all possible accessibility-regulations.

Also not sure what you mean here? Kaiserplatz is designed as central hub area and outdoor show venue. And it serves that purpose with its open space for relaxation on the chairs in the summer there, the ice rink in Wintertraum, the Magic Rose end of day show in Wintertraum, the former summer end of day show (Only a few months ago Manuela Loffelhardt said she has been thinking of ideas for a new one in the future). The small centre gate serves as access for emergency services, show floats/vehicles and backstage access with the storage yard behind there.
It is not future proofed to be an entrance. An entrance there really would be really awkward and not feasible. If they had an entrance leading to the two ramps down either side of the square it would create some serious crowd bottlenecks around the end of the Chiapas bridge and block the entrance to Quantum on the other side.

Not to mention the strip of land the park own behind Kaiserplatz doesn't actually reach the Mystery Car Park. Nevermind the awkward barrier of having to cross the busy road into the car park, but you would have to go through land the park doesn't own and can't build on.

The park's long term resort expansion plan includes multi story parking which would undoubtedly come with a new larger entrance on the other side of the street with a tunnel or bridge into Berlin. While the expansion proposal doesn't address the possibility this would make either one of or both of the Mystery and China car parks obsolete, and depending agreements with the land owners a possible site for theme park expansion.
And this park is believed to still be the park's intention. So the development of a main entrance on the other side of the park is highly unlikely to be something planned for the near future. Also since the China car park owner doesn't allow coach/bus park guests to enter through his land and there would be no access behind Kaiserplatz for the shuttle buses or taxis so the Berlin entrance would need to remain anyway and the park would still be left with multiple entrances.

The only sign of future planning from the park with regards the land behind Kaiserplatz is the temporary Vertical Garden Wall and Taron overflow cattle pen corner. Personally I can only imagine at this stage that the site will be used for a large enclosed attraction (one level above ground so the access way and storage space can remain below) with the entrance plaza replacing that Taron cattlepen. My guess would that would be the next site to be developed following the completion of the park's modernisation/upgrade plans (in other words dealing with Geister Rikscha, Hollywood Tour and Temple of the Night Hawk).

Until a solution is found for expansion the entrances situation is unlikely to change. PHL think long term and they'd rather invest in the park itself than in gateways that would eventually be removed. Not to mention there is limited space to do anything more with the China and Mystery entrances anyway.

Just want to highlight, once again, that you're wrong. Give it a rest mate, you're embarrassing yourself.

Just because it's not might not open in 2019, doesn't mean they haven't got a programme. They know if they're aiming for 2019 or 2020, as they'll have all of the detailed plans of works listed out. They've just chosen not to share that with anyone else yet.
Quoted for the truth.
 
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