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Parc Asterix |"Oz'Iris"| B&M Invert

*Sigh* I thought you might take what I've said as a personal insult, but it really wasn't. You wern't the only one that complained, I wasn't really even talking about you, you just happened to post it last. If I wanted to attack you, I'd quote you, but I didn't reference you anywhere, so chill dude.

I wouldn't even reply, but as you insisted on called me stupid..

UC said:
I don't think it dies, and i believe that the zero g is supposed to be taken slow.
Have you seen the zero g and the final helix behind the station? It doesn't look like it has died in those elements!
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Why is that zero-G "supposed" to be taken slow?
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Zero-G's ARE supposed to be taken like that. The clue is in the name, ZERO G. The entire spin should be taken at weightlessness. Obviously older coasters, such as B:TR or Dragon Khan take theirs faster, but those rides were built when technology was a hell of a lot more simple. They arn't true zero-g.

UC said:
I think its suprising to see how fast this coaster accelerates off the lift, this is the first time we've seen one without a pre-drop, and maybe that's why people seem to think it dies half way through. Look at any other invert and it has similar pacing.
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Uh, no, the pacing post-Immelman has nothing to do with the lack of a pre-drop. They're at two completely different parts of the ride. Don't start with that "well it accelerates so quickly" crap either - it's actually the other way around. You get a quicker feeling of speed with the little dip the pre-drop provides than you would without it, and at any rate, it has nothing to do with the pacing in the second half.
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I mentioned it to point out that the first drop & Dive loop seems unusually fast. The rest of the coaster then continues at a normal pace for a coaster of this type. I was not saying it in reference to the second half of the ride, or 'post-Immelman'.

UC said:
Don't give me crap like "Well duh, B:TR is a short layout! Of course the pacing is better!" Alright, so how do you explain Pyrenees then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei_R9GS- ... F8B6506544

Note, by the way, how fast it plows through that zero-G.
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Same thing as above, older coaster, faster 'not-actual-zero-g'.

UC said:
I think it looks ace personally and that people are complaining for the sake of it.
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No, I'm making a factual statement. This ride flies through its first half, and really slows down in the second. Even the cameraman in that above footage overestimates the speed as it dives into the tunnel!
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A statement that you have DECIDED is factual from a video, without having ridden it or any actual experience of the forces induced. That's not factual at all, it's not even a fact.

A fact is that the coaster is 114ft high, that it has 5 inversions, and that it is called Oz'Iris.

You say it really slows down is your opinion. Just like it is my opinion that I think the pacing looks good for a coasters that does so much with such a small height.

UC said:
Its long and it has a layout that all over The Swarm.
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1. No one is complaining about the length or the layout. I made a comment on the pacing which, judging from the video above, is perfectly legitimate.

2. This ride isn't even close to Swarm, so that comparison is ridiculous. Might as well compare it to SheiKra.
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The comparison isn't ridiculous, they are both coasters constructed in the same year by the same manufacturer. Its a perfectly legitimate comparison. Yes they are different types of coaster, but I don't care about that, I'm comparing two new rides for the year. Just like in 1994 you could say:

"I love PMBO!! But Nemesis is the better new ride this year"
 
So everyone's been on it already and can say from first hand experience what its like right? But like watching it from 3 videos is the same though.
 
Regarding the zero-g issue I do understand the correlation between how steep/drawn out the hill is and the speed the train travels. BUT it is a fact that older B&M inverts does not provide weightlessness in their zero-g rolls (at least not the ones I've been on). While Nemesis, Inferno and Katun just flips you around the more recent Black Mamba, with a steeper slower hill much like Oz'Iris, provides true weightlessness. So I definitely believe that B&M have learned over the years how to design a zero-g roll and lately perfected the element.

Regarding the speed it obvously slows down at the end. But I'm actually with Crazycoaster on this one. The tunnel/mist will enhance the feeling of speed, the turnaround-thingy is obviously designed as a breather, the zero-g is supposed to be taken slow (for those who haven't been on Black Mamba I strongly recomend going, the zero-g is awesome!) and the last few turns are really tight. I think B&M have got the pacing right and that the latter halft of the coaster will feel a lot faster on ride. But as with every other coaster; you can't be sure until you've ridden it..
 
Parc Asterix |"Oz'Iris"| B&M Invert

tks said:
So everyone's been on it already and can say from first hand experience what its like right? But like watching it from 3 videos is the same though.
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My point as well :)
 
^Ok so we agree on the pacing, it's just that we have different preferences of what makes a good ride (or "fast" ride in this case). But regarding the zero-g I've heard a lot of people saying the same thing: the newer inverts like Black Mamba and Patriot provides a true zero-g feeling as opposed to the older ones (I've among others read it on this forum several times, I just couldn't bother to look it up now). And since my experiences tells me the same, that seems logical. And it's not like B&M don't develop and refine their products (sometimes to enthusiats dislike), as you stated yourself they've eg over the years smoothen out the cobra rolls. So it seems very logical that they've improved the zero-g rolls as well.
 
^Ok, then I take your word for it! All of the B&Ms I mentioned (Nemesis, Inferno and Katun) must have aged very badly then since they don't provide zero-g..
 
^Yea and I disagree with that. And you disagree with me. The only thing we can agree to are that we disagree :wink:

Now I'm done discussing this. Let's not fill this topic with more crap. Back on topic!
 
andrus said:
^Yea and I disagree with that. And you disagree with me. The only thing we can agree to are that we disagree :wink:

Now I'm done discussing this. Let's not fill this topic with more crap. Back on topic!
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And just a reminder to you, he's an engineer with years of experience in this particular subject - and you obviously are not. Disagree all you want, but as a reality check to you - you're dead wrong. End of subject - case closed - point goes to UC.
 
Just to add my two cents, after riding older inverts like Raptor and newer inverts like Patriot, I believe that they're better when they're taken 'slower'. I don't believe they're actually taken slower, per se, but the trains rotate slower on the newer versions than older versions. Raptor's 0-g rolls you around quickly and you don't feel the 0-g as much as intended. Patriot, on the other hand, slowly rolls throughout the entire top half of the element, allowing riders to feel the sensation for a longer period of time. Offride, it may look like the ride slows down, but in reality, it probably isn't slowing down all that much and it's intended to run that way.
 
I'm not really getting this whole "It crawls through the zero-g". It slows compared to the ballistic pace of the rest of the ride, but not beyond the point of acceptablity, and that turnaround still looks faster than the one on Nemesis.

My definition of CRAWLING through a Zero G is what happens on Battlestar galatcia, where it is such that you slide sideways in the seat and hit your neck.

Also, in that POV, love the french "oh my god" at 1:04.
 
Re: Parc Asterix |"Oz'Iris"| B&M Invert

Sorry, but I couldn't give a **** about the engineering behind it. The zero gs on the newer inverts (mamba, patriot, phaethon) ride a lot better than the old ones. They're NOT the same, and I doubt it's as simple as the aging of the rides.

The old ones flip you quite aggressively; the new ones really do "float" through. There's very little weightlessness on the old models, while the new ones are full of it. Argue the technicalities all day, but that's how they ride.

I'm on my phone, so can't look up pictures, but they don't even look the same. The old ones are very flat on top, while the new ones are clearly rounded. Sorry, but that's about as technical as I get.

Take a look at, say, Phaethon's zero g and tell me its the same as the older models.
 
Yes UC, we get that mathematically they're perfect parabolas, that doesn't stop the older inverts riding differently to the newer ones. In my experience Nemesis', Raptor's, Nemesis Inferno's zero-G rolls DO NOT FEEL WEIGHTLESS, whereas Patriot's feels perfect. Sure, they're both designed the same, but that doesn't stop the fact that you don't feel the same forces. Maybe it's the roll rate (I suspect so, Patriot's feels a lot more drawn out), but they do feel different.

Nemesis' zero-G roll might as well be any inversion, you don't get any sense of weightlessness, just the sensation of being kicked over (Nemesis' is one of the more violent I think). Patriot's on the other hand feels just like a hill on one of their Hyper coasters, except with an inversion. It's got perfect floaty airtime.

I can't tell what you're arguing. It's obvious (to me at least) that they're all designed as ZERO-G rolls (by definition), what we're saying is that the old ones don't feel like zero-G and the new ones ride differently.

In my opinion, if this thing's zero-G is like Patriot's then perfect. It's fantastic.
 
Parc Asterix |"Oz'Iris"| B&M Invert

I have only ever got zero g on 3 coasters, Mamba, khan, and swarm.

On the rest it's just another inversion as people have said.
 
Just thought I would model up a Zero-G roll to visually show what UC is saying here.

Sitdown
Heartlinevisual.gif


Invert
0G_Invert.gif


Same parabolic heartline travel (shown by the arrows), but the heartline roll just inverts you at the apex (where zero-G would be felt).
 
UC said:
So, to sum it up, instead of weeding through a majority opinion on what is/isn't a good zero-G, I prefer to look at it mathematically - where they're all designed exactly the same, as they have been since 1992.
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Seems like a strange way to work to me. That'd be a bit like saying all B&M vertical loops feel the same cos 'they're all the same mathematically', when they clearly don't. Each to their own, I'm not criticizing, but I'd have thought you'd look at it on a more ride-to-ride basis. I thought you'd made yourself pretty well understood in your first post and I agree with you about the shaping, I just don't know what the issue with people saying they seem different is.

Who really cares? I've got a feeling this is going to feel a lot more like Patriot's (at least, that's what I'm hoping) as that inversion is one of my favourites. It just feels so smooth and flows so well.

That's a point (my mind has wandered here slightly and I don't want UC telling the shaping facts again ;) ), does this zero-G have that funny step in it like we thought it did during construction or was that just the angle of the pictures?

EDIT: If you look at 01:30 in the POV it looks like it steps to the 'wrong' side, is this the only one like this?
 
Meh about the rest. Getting bored.
UC said:
That's a point (my mind has wandered here slightly), does this zero-G have that funny step in it like we thought it did during construction or was that just the angle of the pictures?
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Zero-Gs always look funky from different angles. Patriot's, for example, looks steep from some angles because of the high entry point to the roll itself. Raptor's, on the other hand, looks more drawn out, because of the longer nature of the roll dictating a wider parabola to achieve the zero-G. It really just comes down to train speed and, depending on which variable is more important, the linear distance/height for the roll (one dictates the other, usually linear distance is the more important variable as it directly impacts the coaster's footprint).
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It seems like this roll translates sideways too though. If you watch the POV and pause it at 01:30 it looks as if the zero-G's entrance and exit aren't as inline as usual. It seems to have this weird sort of 'shuffle' sideways. It was noticed during construction, but I just assumed it was the angle of the photos at the time, but now it actually looks like it's shaped differently. Can you see what I mean from the video?

Is this something new we've not seen on zero-G's before, as I thought most were pretty much linear?
 
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