Kings Island | Orion | B&M Giga Coaster
- Thread starter Pear
- Start date
Intamin to Win
Mega Poster
Tbh Orion needs 3 minor changes to go from “fine” to amazing. Too late now, but:
1. Steeper drop. Get that thing fully vertical what are we doing here
2. The huge banked hill should be banked the OTHER way, a-la Pantheon
3. Why is the brake run like 75 miles long. Why. B&M had done this a lot lately and its garbo. I mean SFNE’s Superman has a super short brake run, and it’s awesome in how scary short it is. Why so long?
Basically, B&M’s conservative ride design (in terms of layout) holds them back. This is another prime case
1. Steeper drop. Get that thing fully vertical what are we doing here
2. The huge banked hill should be banked the OTHER way, a-la Pantheon
3. Why is the brake run like 75 miles long. Why. B&M had done this a lot lately and its garbo. I mean SFNE’s Superman has a super short brake run, and it’s awesome in how scary short it is. Why so long?
Basically, B&M’s conservative ride design (in terms of layout) holds them back. This is another prime case
Hutch
Strata Poster
An extra 5-10 degrees honestly won't be much of a difference, especially at that height. The drop will be great as is.
Kw6sTheater
Hyper Poster
1. I agree with @Hutch - the drop would probably still feel about the same at 90 degrees as it would 85 degrees.
2. However, I concur. If this hill was outer-banked, it could've offered some incredible, sideways views of Kings Island almost 200 feet in the air - that would've been quite an experience.
3. I believe this has been covered before... the brake run is extra-long to accommodate 2 trains rather than 1 (meaning that the layout doesn't require a MCBR to break up its pacing), and it's up higher so that the train will be entering it slower than if the brake run was at ground level.
Adding another tidbit to this, I feel that Orion could've used more elements in the layout - 5,321 feet is certainly a formidable length, but a mere 2 airtime hills, 3 over-banked turns and a helix is a bit minimalist. I would've loved to see Orion use its hilly, forested footprint more through sporting low-to-the-ground elements ala Fury 325's over-banks in between its 2nd hill and Treble Clef. Although this could potentially ruin Beast's secluded nature, B&M could simply design this part of the coaster's layout to be away from Beast. While Orion will definitely be a good ride, I often dream of what it could have been.
Jcoasters
Mega Poster
That's like saying 45 feet is like 50 feet. Or 88 mph is like 90 mph.
It's not the same, and to the human min, 90 degrees is a lot better and cooler.
I agee, B&M is garbo. Look, the flying coasters are great, long floater hills are awesome, 90's loopers, bloop bloop, I love B&M. But, point is, anyone with a sane mind and the task to build a 5000 foot giga coaster would do something way cooler.
hendrixmarshall
Roller Poster
I tuned in to see how we're jerking off Onion 287 today...
Youngster Joey
Strata Poster
Orion's biggest flaw is it could just use one or 2 more elements. It'll still be a top tier fun ride but it's lack of elements will likely be what keeps it from being truly in the upper echelon of coasters on peoples lists (ignoring that some people just don't like B&M hypers). there's no doubt in my mind this ride will be great, it just probably won't be outstanding and THATS where the disappointment i think you frequently see expressed on the forums stems from. I personally am hoping this ride will be better then it looks but i get why people aren't hopeful. I'm not expecting B&M to start taking intamin or RMC style "risks" with their elements but that doesn't mean they have to do the same old same old.
Hutch
Strata Poster
You think you could tell the difference if a ride goes 90 mph instead of 88 mph? They’re practically the same.
On paper, greater stats will look more impressive, but at a coaster this size they’re already going to be impressive to the GP anyway. It honestly doesn’t really matter if the ride is 300 ft or 325 ft tall. That’s pretty damn tall either way, and I suspect Orion’s drop will feel very similar to that of Fury and Leviathan’s, despite the varying stats.
I mean, most B&M hypers range from a max speed from 70-80 mph, yet there’s no way I can really notice the difference in speed when riding.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In all seriousness think a fair comparison is this:
steel vengeance <—-> iron gwazi
fury 325 <—-> orion
IG and Orion can’t compete with their counterparts so are going for consistent mad speed (to the extent possible with their budgets). They’ll be different and exciting in their own way. Yes I know IG has stats over SteVe but, c’mon...
I wouldn’t write either Iron Gwazi or Orion off as the crappy version, they are what they are. I wonder if people are so zealous with everything - the second shorter son is a complete waste of time, can’t even be bothered to be tall. Wife did a crap job. Kill the whole family and start over tbh.
steel vengeance <—-> iron gwazi
fury 325 <—-> orion
IG and Orion can’t compete with their counterparts so are going for consistent mad speed (to the extent possible with their budgets). They’ll be different and exciting in their own way. Yes I know IG has stats over SteVe but, c’mon...
I wouldn’t write either Iron Gwazi or Orion off as the crappy version, they are what they are. I wonder if people are so zealous with everything - the second shorter son is a complete waste of time, can’t even be bothered to be tall. Wife did a crap job. Kill the whole family and start over tbh.
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Exactly right. It is less a question on if a ride will be good or not, versus how well it compares to its counterparts. And Fury 325 is a stiff number to follow-up.
Pear
Strata Poster
CrashCoaster
CF Legend
Looks pretty quick actually!
Llama Drama
Roller Poster
Hi all, new here.
I've been lurking for a while and am now ready to jump in and give my full thoughts on Orion. As many others around here (and in the community in general), I'm sort of a mixed bag. First, I'll start with what I like about it/thought they got right...
First overbank/"wave" turn (whatever it technically is) - this might be the element I'm most excited for. Yes, I suppose it could have been "banked" better (as with the turnaround) but hey, I'll take it. I think it might still provide some sideways air regardless, but we'll just and wait and see
The turnaround - as mentioned earlier, they probably could have been done better with this, but I still think it will be quite the element. Based on what I saw in that video, it seemed to be FLYING through it
Speed hill - Can't go wrong with a speed hill
The upward helix - Yes, this has technically been done before, but that isn't to say its a particularly common element by any means. And like the "wave/bank" turn, it will be interesting to experience it on a coaster of this scale.
The headchopper - Maybe the animated POV is a bit deceptive but it looks to be quite the tough squeeze underneath first hill en route to the last.
Thing I'm disappointed with:
You guessed it - the length.
Sigh. You know, I'm honestly fine with the whole 287/300 ft drop debacle, if it were to mean a somewhat longer ride as a result...
Or suppose its a short ride but with a much more impressive (i. 320-325 ft) drop? The problem here is that its both a short ride AND the drop is bare minimum to qualify its status.
The rational among us knew full well not to expect some 8000+ monster creation, as the most ambitious of speculation had it. I get that. And PERHAPS expecting this to match /surpass Fury in length was a bit presumptious too, but would have expecting say, ~5800-6000 ft, been all that unreasonable/"entitled"? In my opinion, no.
And yes, I know. "It will be successful with the GP anyway" blah blah. "It doesn't matter from a business sense". "You'll still ride it anyway" . Trust me, I know. I know....
This isn't about being a "bad" business decision by any means. We all know it isn't. It's about having seen Cedar Fair always following up their coasters with bigger versions for basically their entire history. If this was Six Flags, we'd be thrilled that they're even building a giga at all. But the fact that this came from Cedar Fair is where a lot of the disappointment stems.
Thanks for reading all this if you did. Happy March!
I've been lurking for a while and am now ready to jump in and give my full thoughts on Orion. As many others around here (and in the community in general), I'm sort of a mixed bag. First, I'll start with what I like about it/thought they got right...
First overbank/"wave" turn (whatever it technically is) - this might be the element I'm most excited for. Yes, I suppose it could have been "banked" better (as with the turnaround) but hey, I'll take it. I think it might still provide some sideways air regardless, but we'll just and wait and see
The turnaround - as mentioned earlier, they probably could have been done better with this, but I still think it will be quite the element. Based on what I saw in that video, it seemed to be FLYING through it
Speed hill - Can't go wrong with a speed hill
The upward helix - Yes, this has technically been done before, but that isn't to say its a particularly common element by any means. And like the "wave/bank" turn, it will be interesting to experience it on a coaster of this scale.
The headchopper - Maybe the animated POV is a bit deceptive but it looks to be quite the tough squeeze underneath first hill en route to the last.
Thing I'm disappointed with:
You guessed it - the length.
Sigh. You know, I'm honestly fine with the whole 287/300 ft drop debacle, if it were to mean a somewhat longer ride as a result...
Or suppose its a short ride but with a much more impressive (i. 320-325 ft) drop? The problem here is that its both a short ride AND the drop is bare minimum to qualify its status.
The rational among us knew full well not to expect some 8000+ monster creation, as the most ambitious of speculation had it. I get that. And PERHAPS expecting this to match /surpass Fury in length was a bit presumptious too, but would have expecting say, ~5800-6000 ft, been all that unreasonable/"entitled"? In my opinion, no.
And yes, I know. "It will be successful with the GP anyway" blah blah. "It doesn't matter from a business sense". "You'll still ride it anyway" . Trust me, I know. I know....
This isn't about being a "bad" business decision by any means. We all know it isn't. It's about having seen Cedar Fair always following up their coasters with bigger versions for basically their entire history. If this was Six Flags, we'd be thrilled that they're even building a giga at all. But the fact that this came from Cedar Fair is where a lot of the disappointment stems.
Thanks for reading all this if you did. Happy March!
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CrashCoaster
CF Legend
Antinos
Slut for Spinners
I feel the same way. I'm sure the trim is currently off and is why the ride is running that quickly but if this sort of pacing holds up, it might turn into a sleeper.
Let him keep going. It's fun to see the meltdown take place.
bob_3_
Giga Poster
Trim is on one normal air-time hill after the speed hill.
This thing flies! I love it, I wouldn't be suprised if they find a way to slow it down though, if it runs like this on a cold day, god knows how it'll perform in the summer. But all in all, exciting for the intensity enthusiasts out there I think.
Matt N
CF Legend
Wow, that looks absolutely phenomenal! I envy anyone able to ride it this year; it literally flew through the course!
I've thought of a good analogy for this ride's layout compared to Fury's; think of Orion as the Lightning Rod to Fury's Steel Vengeance. By this, I mean that whereas Fury is a really long coaster and spreads its thrills along a greater ride duration (a la Steel Vengeance), Orion seems to throw loads of great elements into a shorter duration (a la Lightning Rod).
For all the criticism Orion's getting, I think you American enthusiasts are in for a real positive surprise in April! From that testing footage, it looks very promising indeed!
I've thought of a good analogy for this ride's layout compared to Fury's; think of Orion as the Lightning Rod to Fury's Steel Vengeance. By this, I mean that whereas Fury is a really long coaster and spreads its thrills along a greater ride duration (a la Steel Vengeance), Orion seems to throw loads of great elements into a shorter duration (a la Lightning Rod).
For all the criticism Orion's getting, I think you American enthusiasts are in for a real positive surprise in April! From that testing footage, it looks very promising indeed!