Ideas for Thorpe Park 2015 and 2012 coaster
- Thread starter Coastermaniac94
- Start date
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Ah, so it wasn't just us who experienced a failure to get two train operation going with swarm. I assumed they were having trouble with the transfer track at the time.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk
Sent from my HTC Wildfire S A510e using Tapatalk
Wow, few things to cover here :lol:
Firstly, it seems very apparent that the parks operate individually. While they may use the Merlin umbrella (and Tussauds previously) to help negotiate a better deal with a manufacturer, I think that it's rare it's pushed from above. The management at Thorpe and Alton know their staff and working procedures much better than the management at Merlin. If Thorpe say "we can handle another Intamin ride because we've hired an Intamin ride specialist this year", then they'll get an Intamin (or rather, they'll put forward a proposal to Merlin for an Intamin).
I think that Rita and Stealth are a little different from the old regime, but now it certainly seems the parks can run autonomously. So teething/continued issues with 13 won't affect Thorpe's relationship with Intamin.
Secondly, as a technician, things go wrong with new stuff. Things go wrong with old stuff too. Things just go wrong. The difference between my systems and Thorpe's though is that if I have a hardware failure, or something needs a reboot, then we just lose a bit of working time. At Thorpe, you're putting people's lives at risk.
So the need for "downtime" is much greater on a coaster, and the need for trained personal to do even the simple things is an absolute requirement. So you will still get downtime even with "reliable" B&Ms. If a sensor keeps tripping and needs an engineer to reboot it, then you have to wait for that engineer to come out.
Now, that doesn't mean the manufacturer is completely free of responsibility, but it's very complicated (as Gerstlauer and Thorpe discovered). Again, the manufacturer isn't 100% free of culpability, but... They will present the entire ride package to the park, yet it's not all their own work. The sensors will come from one manufacturer, the control panel another, the PLUs another, the chains and cables another, the hydraulics another, etc, etc, etc. The manufacturer brings all these things together as a single ride.
If they've chosen the wrong manufacturer for their sensors though and they keep failing (for instance), then it's still the ride manufacturer who needs to find the solution, but often until you are running under the full strain of operations, you just don't know if parts have the performance capabilities promised when you bought them. That's for the individual parts, not the entire coaster (though obviously it does mean that for the park and manufacturer.
I think the reason B&M get such a good rep, is simply because they choose to do things very simply, with very old, tried and tested systems. They also (probably) use higher quality parts as part of their "high reliability, high price" service. As soon as you get complex systems in a B&M, you get reliability issues (I'm looking at Air here).
So downtime is an expected part of safe operations. It's going to happen more often with newer coasters (as the parts are put through their paces) and more complicated coasters.
It doesn't mean that Thorpe isn't responsible. How many "qualified" staff you have available and how quickly they respond (and how well they can do their job) is entirely down to Thorpe. So while they may have not been able to fix Saw's issue in the first season due to parts Gerstlauer outsourced failing (or that were badly designed/configured), they should have been doing something about the half dozen engineers hanging around drinking coffee and nattering while the rest of the park was down.
Again, as a technician, you have bad days where you don't get a break. Sometimes those days are concurrent and you can have weeks without a break. You do the work and you get it fixed, it's your job. It's up to the parks to negotiate that working ethic (wrong word, but I'm not sure what the right one is) in their staff.
Oh, a B&M Hyper, "Europe's Tallest", would be fantastic.
Firstly, it seems very apparent that the parks operate individually. While they may use the Merlin umbrella (and Tussauds previously) to help negotiate a better deal with a manufacturer, I think that it's rare it's pushed from above. The management at Thorpe and Alton know their staff and working procedures much better than the management at Merlin. If Thorpe say "we can handle another Intamin ride because we've hired an Intamin ride specialist this year", then they'll get an Intamin (or rather, they'll put forward a proposal to Merlin for an Intamin).
I think that Rita and Stealth are a little different from the old regime, but now it certainly seems the parks can run autonomously. So teething/continued issues with 13 won't affect Thorpe's relationship with Intamin.
Secondly, as a technician, things go wrong with new stuff. Things go wrong with old stuff too. Things just go wrong. The difference between my systems and Thorpe's though is that if I have a hardware failure, or something needs a reboot, then we just lose a bit of working time. At Thorpe, you're putting people's lives at risk.
So the need for "downtime" is much greater on a coaster, and the need for trained personal to do even the simple things is an absolute requirement. So you will still get downtime even with "reliable" B&Ms. If a sensor keeps tripping and needs an engineer to reboot it, then you have to wait for that engineer to come out.
Now, that doesn't mean the manufacturer is completely free of responsibility, but it's very complicated (as Gerstlauer and Thorpe discovered). Again, the manufacturer isn't 100% free of culpability, but... They will present the entire ride package to the park, yet it's not all their own work. The sensors will come from one manufacturer, the control panel another, the PLUs another, the chains and cables another, the hydraulics another, etc, etc, etc. The manufacturer brings all these things together as a single ride.
If they've chosen the wrong manufacturer for their sensors though and they keep failing (for instance), then it's still the ride manufacturer who needs to find the solution, but often until you are running under the full strain of operations, you just don't know if parts have the performance capabilities promised when you bought them. That's for the individual parts, not the entire coaster (though obviously it does mean that for the park and manufacturer.
I think the reason B&M get such a good rep, is simply because they choose to do things very simply, with very old, tried and tested systems. They also (probably) use higher quality parts as part of their "high reliability, high price" service. As soon as you get complex systems in a B&M, you get reliability issues (I'm looking at Air here).
So downtime is an expected part of safe operations. It's going to happen more often with newer coasters (as the parts are put through their paces) and more complicated coasters.
It doesn't mean that Thorpe isn't responsible. How many "qualified" staff you have available and how quickly they respond (and how well they can do their job) is entirely down to Thorpe. So while they may have not been able to fix Saw's issue in the first season due to parts Gerstlauer outsourced failing (or that were badly designed/configured), they should have been doing something about the half dozen engineers hanging around drinking coffee and nattering while the rest of the park was down.
Again, as a technician, you have bad days where you don't get a break. Sometimes those days are concurrent and you can have weeks without a break. You do the work and you get it fixed, it's your job. It's up to the parks to negotiate that working ethic (wrong word, but I'm not sure what the right one is) in their staff.
Oh, a B&M Hyper, "Europe's Tallest", would be fantastic.
Jake
Strata Poster
I would absolutely LOVE a B&M Hyper in the UK.
Like Joey said, we need more 'fun' coasters. Apart from Swarm we haven't really had any good, solid coasters for years... it's all been gimmicks and painful creds.
A B&M Hyper would be perfect because they're fun, rerideable and comfortable. They age well too.
I wouldn't give a shiny **** if it was the tallest in Europe or not. Actually, I'd rather it be a normal size and actually have a layout. It seems that the taller they get, the more the layout suffers...
Oh, and I really don't see why any locals would have the right to complain. They live in the largest metropolitan area in the European Union, are surrounded by motorways and are practically on the runway of one of the busiest airports in the world. Hardly Farley, is it.
Like Joey said, we need more 'fun' coasters. Apart from Swarm we haven't really had any good, solid coasters for years... it's all been gimmicks and painful creds.
A B&M Hyper would be perfect because they're fun, rerideable and comfortable. They age well too.
I wouldn't give a shiny **** if it was the tallest in Europe or not. Actually, I'd rather it be a normal size and actually have a layout. It seems that the taller they get, the more the layout suffers...
Oh, and I really don't see why any locals would have the right to complain. They live in the largest metropolitan area in the European Union, are surrounded by motorways and are practically on the runway of one of the busiest airports in the world. Hardly Farley, is it.
Ethan
Strata Poster
Would the council allow a 300ft Hyper with Heathrow that close?
Also...
B&M hyper?
Also...
Ollie said:Got bored so looked up the space on Google Maps. The station for the coaster would be the current station for the train. The lift hill would then take you up and then you'd go into loads of amazing airtime hills down the length of the park similar to Colossos. When the ride comes back down it follows where the train used to go over the entrance to the area so it looks good visually as you enter and seeing the coaster thunder past. It'd then go down to near ground level and weave through the trees and rocks round the outside of the log flume before hitting the brakes.
Down the far end of the coaster it'd turn onto the island where the pirate thing/ship used to be years ago. Then do an awesome turnaround at speed before heading round for it's return journey down the side of the park.
Please take note Thorpe.
B&M hyper?
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Gosh that's. Thats ....huge, I can't see them ever paying out for something that massive. I had previously thought, like Marc, that if they were to get a mega, it's station would be on the island behind Stealth, and it would go out to the back of Inferno and out and back across to Loggers and back. But no, that's so much bigger than I thought.
AND, there isn't the room anyway...
Here's a crappy diagram...
Yellow is a great big access road. Pretty sure that removes the possibility of building across that land. I don't think it's a coincidence that the wooden coaster layout we saw DIDN'T make use of that land either.
Green is where I previously thought a station could go, if Thorpe ever did get an out and back coaster. But if you actually look, there's not enough room for the thing to turn out the station and go either way. The park boundary isn't far beyond that access road.
Is anyone able to fill in where the pedestrian path is outside the park boundary on my diagram? Cuz I can't see where it is.
And RED... Red is land that I think a mega coaster would realistically reside on. Not ALL of it, but some of that land.
It could actually be really cool looking from a park skyline perspective if it started on the island behind Stealth and it's lift and first drop went across behind/over rapids, before it turned up and circled around that lake. It would make it a pretty small mega in terms of length (making it within what we'd expect Merlin to budget for, maybe?).
But what do I actually think will happen IF Thorpe get a hyper?
It'll start on the island behind Stealth...... And not stray far from it. It'll go up onto that other island a bit, and dick around. But it might become the only B&M mega in the world to interact with pedestrian areas. ALL of them (that I can think of?) go off and do whatever out in the distance and you barely see them. The only one that appears to maybe be different is Shambhala.
I still think either way a hyper is a good idea and would be awesome regardless of actual critical ride quality from an enthusiast perspective. It won't be topping Mitch's poll, but it'll be a delight for those of us nearby who don't hate for the sake of hating.
AND, there isn't the room anyway...
Here's a crappy diagram...
Yellow is a great big access road. Pretty sure that removes the possibility of building across that land. I don't think it's a coincidence that the wooden coaster layout we saw DIDN'T make use of that land either.
Green is where I previously thought a station could go, if Thorpe ever did get an out and back coaster. But if you actually look, there's not enough room for the thing to turn out the station and go either way. The park boundary isn't far beyond that access road.
Is anyone able to fill in where the pedestrian path is outside the park boundary on my diagram? Cuz I can't see where it is.
And RED... Red is land that I think a mega coaster would realistically reside on. Not ALL of it, but some of that land.
It could actually be really cool looking from a park skyline perspective if it started on the island behind Stealth and it's lift and first drop went across behind/over rapids, before it turned up and circled around that lake. It would make it a pretty small mega in terms of length (making it within what we'd expect Merlin to budget for, maybe?).
But what do I actually think will happen IF Thorpe get a hyper?
It'll start on the island behind Stealth...... And not stray far from it. It'll go up onto that other island a bit, and dick around. But it might become the only B&M mega in the world to interact with pedestrian areas. ALL of them (that I can think of?) go off and do whatever out in the distance and you barely see them. The only one that appears to maybe be different is Shambhala.
I still think either way a hyper is a good idea and would be awesome regardless of actual critical ride quality from an enthusiast perspective. It won't be topping Mitch's poll, but it'll be a delight for those of us nearby who don't hate for the sake of hating.
Attachments
EnigmaHyena
Hyper Poster
^Perhaps I'm looking into it too much, but surely there's a reason why they're fencing off the entire length of Miss Hippo's Fungle Safari? They could be toying with putting the station/something else there maybe?
Just a thought!
Just a thought!
Joey it should go up by loggers that's what was said originally and that's why they cleared the area.
It should run along the back of inferno.
I really need to stop using the word will lol.
From what I read/heard as well it must hit its max height in the area just after Stealth as that is where they can build that high. It could though make that area look a bit messy.
So start on the island get to its max height and then to the hills etc behind inferno, turn by loggers and come back.
I think it would be a basic layout tbh but it would suit Thorpe.
Somethings going on round the back like Fraser said, but it's a bit early for 2015 unless they are starting early.
It should run along the back of inferno.
I really need to stop using the word will lol.
From what I read/heard as well it must hit its max height in the area just after Stealth as that is where they can build that high. It could though make that area look a bit messy.
So start on the island get to its max height and then to the hills etc behind inferno, turn by loggers and come back.
I think it would be a basic layout tbh but it would suit Thorpe.
Somethings going on round the back like Fraser said, but it's a bit early for 2015 unless they are starting early.
EnigmaHyena
Hyper Poster
Certainly took them long enough! How long has it been closed for now? Maybe they'll block the eyesore at the exit of Inferno too.
I'm pretty interested to see what flat rides they'll get between 2013 and 2015, if any.
I'm pretty interested to see what flat rides they'll get between 2013 and 2015, if any.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I'm in two minds about them fencing off the Safari whatever thing. They did the same with Chessington, round the field where the dinosaurs were years ago between Wild Asia and Mystic East... But nothing's happened as yet. But it's early days for 2015 yet, though at Chessington it's now been 2 years since that fence was put up. I do think it's more to neaten it up than hide construction, as Jordan said.
I disagree with you Marc about it making the Stealth area look messy, I think it'll make the tiering of the structure heights will look incredible from the park entrance! As long as they don't pull a Kings Dominion, and make you view the lift from the back instead of the side, so it just looks like a stick... Lol.
I HOPE you're all right, and (if it happens) it'll pass along the back all the way from Stealth to Loggers. I really, really do. But that's a HUGE coaster. If Swarm was the upper end of Merlin budgets, and Shambhala (which is probably smaller than this) cost more than Swarm (Only by a million, mind you... Less than I thought.), it just seems impossible?
I think they will get a flat either next year or the year after. I HOPE they begin to redevelop the bloody beach area. I'd like to see them rip it out, put a flat one side, and an area they can still use during Fright Nights and for other events on the other side. Maybe the area could have lots of temporary seating and food outlet the rest of the time? But I can't see them touching the beach until they are literally desperate of space.
I disagree with you Marc about it making the Stealth area look messy, I think it'll make the tiering of the structure heights will look incredible from the park entrance! As long as they don't pull a Kings Dominion, and make you view the lift from the back instead of the side, so it just looks like a stick... Lol.
I HOPE you're all right, and (if it happens) it'll pass along the back all the way from Stealth to Loggers. I really, really do. But that's a HUGE coaster. If Swarm was the upper end of Merlin budgets, and Shambhala (which is probably smaller than this) cost more than Swarm (Only by a million, mind you... Less than I thought.), it just seems impossible?
I think they will get a flat either next year or the year after. I HOPE they begin to redevelop the bloody beach area. I'd like to see them rip it out, put a flat one side, and an area they can still use during Fright Nights and for other events on the other side. Maybe the area could have lots of temporary seating and food outlet the rest of the time? But I can't see them touching the beach until they are literally desperate of space.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Yeah I forgot about Goliath's outside the park interaction, and I forgot Hollywood Dream whatever existed. Sue me.
MOST of them* go off into the distance and you barely see them.
EDIT: Diamondback.
Fml.
MOST of them* go off into the distance and you barely see them.
EDIT: Diamondback.
Fml.
EnigmaHyena
Hyper Poster
^I've already spoken to Neil (Thorpe's ride manager...planner...guy...) when I was watching Swarm be built with Tina and he said a Dive Machine's out of the question since they already have a beyond vertical drop (Saw) ruling out the need for a vertical drop, AT has Oblivion, and DM's are apparently seen as old news to him...Thorpe are always looking for new and innovative rides. He said pretty much the same when I suggested a Flyer.
He did sound very interested when I suggested they should get the same ride as Pandemonium at Drayton though!
He did sound very interested when I suggested they should get the same ride as Pandemonium at Drayton though!
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Easilly if it goes all the way from Stealth to Loggers and back.Ethan said: