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Coronavirus: Impact on Theme Parks

Peet

Member
We are having 3,000 cases a day at the moment and there is a whole news article about a single case!?

Still, good to hear the rest of the team is self-isolating. From some stories I have heard, other workplaces are not being so cautios.
 

Climb

New Member
Has anyone been to Thorpe this week/since the schools have been back? I was intrigued to what the queues were like. Queue times is saying that Colossus was hitting 90 minutes today despite schools return. I am assuming the trains could be on 1 train op or the cleaning is taking a lot of time?
 
Has anyone been to Thorpe this week/since the schools have been back? I was intrigued to what the queues were like. Queue times is saying that Colossus was hitting 90 minutes today despite schools return. I am assuming the trains could be on 1 train op or the cleaning is taking a lot of time?
Colossus is such a poor capacity throughput performing coaster at the best of times without a pandemic.
 

Nicky Borrill

Active Member
Alton towers queues were saying 1 hour on our visit... 30 mins tops!!!

Still much longer than September usually is... No go arounds for any of us this year :(
 

ECG

East Coast(er) General
Staff member
Administrator
Here's thinking outside the box when you can't get people to come to your park due to COVID-19:

 

Nicky Borrill

Active Member
Here's thinking outside the box when you can't get people to come to your park due to COVID-19:

Did you know you can do this at AT and Thorpe in the UK too? Rent out a coaster, an area or the whole park for an hour, a day or longer... Slightly more expensive though! 🙈
 
Loopings is reporting that Disneyland Paris is heavily reducing opening times.
From 5th October during the week the studios park is only open between 11am and 4pm, which is even shorter than the shortest weekday opening hours at Blackpool Pleasure Beach and Alton Towers.

I think forcing people to wear a mask the entire day is too much of a restriction.
I also think it is now VERY questionable if it actually helps considering the massive rise in cases again whilst such restrictions are supposedly in place in many public settings.
 

JammyH

Member
I think forcing people to wear a mask the entire day is too much of a restriction.
I also think it is now VERY questionable if it actually helps considering the massive rise in cases again whilst such restrictions are supposedly in place in many public settings.
Just to clear this up, where masks are being worn is not where the outbreaks are happening, and is not the cause of increasing numbers in the UK.

There is plenty of scientific evidence behind masks reducing viral transmission and viral load which we have already detailed into in this topic.

The current increase in numbers in countries is due to reopening the economy, people having increased interactions with those outside of their households and the effects of people going back to schools, unis and workplaces with increased day to day interactions, without masks.

As for Disney, I’m surprised they are even still open. Their footfall is now so low as no one can go there, questionable whether it’s even worth being open.

I personally don’t think masks for the whole day is too much of a restriction and I would happily get on with it as it makes it safer, and clears up confusion about where they should and shouldn’t be worn around the parks.
 
Just to clear this up, where masks are being worn is not where the outbreaks are happening, and is not the cause of increasing numbers in the UK.

There is plenty of scientific evidence behind masks reducing viral transmission and viral load which we have already detailed into in this topic.

The current increase in numbers in countries is due to reopening the economy, people having increased interactions with those outside of their households and the effects of people going back to schools, unis and workplaces with increased day to day interactions, without masks.

As for Disney, I’m surprised they are even still open. Their footfall is now so low as no one can go there, questionable whether it’s even worth being open.

I personally don’t think masks for the whole day is too much of a restriction and I would happily get on with it as it makes it safer, and clears up confusion about where they should and shouldn’t be worn around the parks.
Well, I disagree and I could barely stomach wearing one throughout 2 1/2 hours Tenet which was a dreadful film to make matters worse. I won't be going to the cinema most likely again in this situation. I think I'm not the only one and studios are taking note, constantly pushing their big movies forward.
In parks it's maybe not quite as bad as it's outside but it definitely played part in my decision not to go to PortaVentura (as well as the reduced entertainment stuff).

The rules are strange. I got a takeaway from Five guys a few weeks ago no one wearing masks. It was busy, I had forgotten all about the eat out thing until I noticed the half price bill and that explained why it was packed. McDonalds it is required and it was empty at the weekend. I'm talking inside.

I think the eat out scheme was a big mistake if it added to cases.

I'm wearing one where-ever required / recommended but I still wonder about its effectiveness.
 
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JammyH

Member
Well, I disagree and I could barely stomach wearing one throughout 2 1/2 hours Tenet which was a dreadful film to make matters worse. I won't be going to the cinema most likely again in this situation. I think I'm not the only one and studios are taking note, constantly pushing their big movies forward.
In parks it's maybe not quite as bad as it's outside but it definitely played part in my decision not to go to PortaVentura (as well as the reduced entertainment stuff).

The rules are strange. I got a takeaway from Five guys a few weeks ago no one wearing masks. It was busy, I had forgotten all about the eat out thing until I noticed the half price bill and that explained why it was packed. McDonalds it is required and it was empty at the weekend. I'm talking inside.

I think the eat out scheme was a big mistake if it added to cases.

I'm wearing one where-ever required / recommended but I still wonder about its effectiveness.
I’ve just been out at the parks in germany and masks are required in all indoor spaces, attractions and waiting areas, so pretty much the whole day, and I didn’t have any issues with it. But I can understand how personal tolerance is different, but I can tell you those parks felt much much safer wearing masks in the lines, coupled with social distancing and screens than the uk parks where most people don’t stick to social distancing, masks aren’t mandated in queues and there are no screens in cattle pens. And that reflects in Germany’s virus situation compared to the uk.

Of course the eat out scheme was a massive mistake, it was purely economically driven and not with health and safety in mind. A lot of these pubs and restaurants operating the scheme had inedquate measures in place. The spike we are seeing now is as a result of the scheme. Hundreds of people congregating in indoor spaces such as pubs and restaurants without masks when moving around and without staff wearing masks was obviously going to cause outbreaks, and the scheme just increased the amount of people socialising with other households. It was completely foolish but I have to say this government have no clue and now it looks like cases are starting to get out of control, testing demand can’t meet supply and hospital admissions are on the up again. Expect more restrictions in the next few weeks.
 

Nicky Borrill

Active Member
The spike we are seeing now is as a result of the scheme.
How on earth did you come to that conclusion? The scheme started at the beginning of August, the rate of increase in new cases didn’t rise until Sept 3rd, (many schools in many areas now go back the week before this) we were maintaining the same very gradual rate of increase that we’d seen since June up until the point when schools started returning... It’s fairly obvious what’s causing this rise. It’s the same problem we had at the start, a Government insisiting on keeping schools open and completely downplaying the role they have in transmission.

It looks like they are going to have to choose, close off more of the economy, or close schools, as predicted, it seems that Autumn will bring further rises if both are allowed to continue as normal.

**P.s we did not take part in the scheme, for several business reasons... We felt it would change our clientel, which was shown to happen at some places, and because of this we felt it would attract too many people who would not abide by our covid policies. We also felt it would take from our weekend trade, which it did in some places, our weekend trade remained VERY strong (we currently only open at weekends, whilst we’re still in a pandemic.) We had other reasons too, but I won’t bore you with those.
 

JammyH

Member
How on earth did you come to that conclusion? The scheme started at the beginning of August, the rate of increase in new cases didn’t rise until Sept 3rd, (many schools in many areas now go back the week before this)
The word “exponential” means the rate of increase becoming more and more rapid. It’s clear to me, that rates have been increasing exponentially since unlocking in July, but this rate of increase has built up as time has gone on and the virus has circulated and spread more into the population.

I know you will disagree, but I think we have been experiencing exponential increase ever since reopening society and the daily numbers double at more often intervals as the rate of change becomes more rapid. The WHO says once your positivity rate reaches 5% the pandemic is out of control and can only be stopped by a lockdown- I don’t know the exact positivity in england but in Scotland it is now 3.6%, it is getting dangerously close to being out of control.

Just my opinion anyway, you are feel free to have your own opinion, but most england schools haven’t been open 2 weeks yet so I personally don’t even think that we’ve seen the effects of reopening schools in the numbers yet, not to mention the whole testing issues going on right now which will cause a backlog in the confirmed cases.

In germany most states have had schools open for about a month now, with the exception of baden- Württemberg. So in my opinion, it’s clear to see that schools and the economy can both get open without such a dramatic spike when you have proper contact tracing and enforcement of mask policies etc. In england, enforcement of masks is non-existent and compliance is getting worse and contact tracing is not good enough. I think it is perfectly possible to have a balance of economy and education if the government can get management right.

But if I had to choose, I choose education. It’s not fair to compromise education. But we need proper contact tracing for schools, and proper social distancing and mask rules, otherwise numbers are going to get out of control. Of course non socially distant schools play a massive role here in transmission, but I don’t think we’ve seen the effects of reopening schools in the manner we have in the uk figures yet.
 

Nicky Borrill

Active Member
The word “exponential” means the rate of increase becoming more and more rapid. It’s clear to me, that rates have been increasing exponentially since unlocking in July, but this rate of increase has built up as time has gone on and the virus has circulated and spread more into the population.

I know you will disagree, but I think we have been experiencing exponential increase ever since reopening society and the daily numbers double at more often intervals as the rate of change becomes more rapid. The WHO says once your positivity rate reaches 5% the pandemic is out of control and can only be stopped by a lockdown- I don’t know the exact positivity in england but in Scotland it is now 3.6%, it is getting dangerously close to being out of control.

Just my opinion anyway, you are feel free to have your own opinion, but most england schools haven’t been open 2 weeks yet so I personally don’t even think that we’ve seen the effects of reopening schools in the numbers yet, not to mention the whole testing issues going on right now which will cause a backlog in the confirmed cases.

In germany most states have had schools open for about a month now, with the exception of baden- Württemberg. So in my opinion, it’s clear to see that schools and the economy can both get open without such a dramatic spike when you have proper contact tracing and enforcement of mask policies etc. In england, enforcement of masks is non-existent and compliance is getting worse and contact tracing is not good enough. I think it is perfectly possible to have a balance of economy and education if the government can get management right.

But if I had to choose, I choose education. It’s not fair to compromise education. But we need proper contact tracing for schools, and proper social distancing and mask rules, otherwise numbers are going to get out of control. Of course non socially distant schools play a massive role here in transmission, but I don’t think we’ve seen the effects of reopening schools in the manner we have in the uk figures yet.
I didn’t mention exponential, I refered to the fact that the ’rate’ of increase has remained steady right through July and August up until Sept. Schools in Scotland went back Aug 15th, Almost all schools in England had returned by Sept 2nd... Rate slowly begin to rise faster on Sept 3rd, and you can’t see the link?

2 weeks is plenty long enough to see the effects, we’re talking about case numbers here not deaths. Average incubation time is around 5 days, some will be more, but some will be less. EVERY PERSON WHO CONTRACTED THE DISEASE ON SEPT 2ND has already shown symptoms and most have recovered ;)

I’m also confident that schools and the economy can both be operational at the same time, but we need lots of things to fall into place in the UK which just aren’t there right now. We need adequate testing, we’re close, but the sudden demand has caused cracks. We need proper test and trace, including a functional app. That app needs to be ‘COMPULSORY’ to enter a restaurant, pub or other indoor venue. But most of all, we need a much higher percentage of the population to take it seriously... We can fix the first 2, the 3rd will be a bit of a struggle.

Disagree on the schools vs economy BTW. It’s much easier to ensure our kids catch up with their education than it would be to recover from a second lockdown of the economy. Both have some pretty dreadful social implications, but I feel a second lockdown and deepening of the economic crisis would be far worse here too. Let’s just hope we can get into a position where the choice is unnecessary, but I am afraid we are now starting to see that predicted Autumn rise... We’re nowehere near the levels of March yet, but time could easily get away from us.

App launches Sept 24th I think. Venues now legally have to take test and trace details, and customers legally have to provide them to enter... Venues will be encouraged to use the NHS app and linked QR codes to do this... WHY NOT MANDATE THAT TOO!!!
 

JammyH

Member
@Nicky Borrill I think you definitely raise some great points, but we also have our indifferences. Nevertheless it is always interesting to have discussions with you over these issues.

I definitely agree on mandating the app to enter venues such as pubs and restaurants and link contact tracing from the app to hospitality, just like they do in China. Unfortunately the government only seem to take half a step with the measures they implement rather than the full step required to properly eliminate transmission.

Spain had a worrying number of cases and deaths today, I would not like to see us in that position come 4 weeks time, but I can’t say it’s looking unlikely either.
 

Nicky Borrill

Active Member
The good news is that more than 98% of those getting tested are negative. The bad news is that these ‘other’ bugs going around are only going to put more strain on testing capacity.

In more light hearted upbeat news, did you see this? Seems those who wear glasses are 5 times less likely to contract the virus!!!


**Obviously a very trustable and well respected source...

There’s also this very promising news and data being reported on an ‘Antibody’ treatment (NOT a vaccine!)


100,000 doses doesn’t go a long way though :/
 
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Howie

Active Member
I haven't posted in this topic much, mainly because I'm not at all qualified in virology or epidemiology. However, I am becoming increasingly concerned at how the public are unquestioning about the fact we are seeing a rise in the virus, and are assuming it’s inevitable we have a genuine second wave.

Just to set the scene, I’m not a conspiracy theorist... I don’t think the virus was a hoax or planted and I don’t think it’s part of some larger new world order. I have been wearing a mask when required, distancing, sanitizing etc... and am generally a compliant citizen.

I’m obviously not in medicine so am arguably out of my depth reading medical papers, but I have studied a bit of sociology in my time and have always been fascinated how as a society we collectively “decide” what is true, what is false and “what’s going on”. How information is presented and how many times in history large groups of people have acted in good faith ... but based on a misunderstanding of the situation. Everyone in society wears goggles and views everything through what the collective have decided (or have had decided for them). Like when back in the day it was “known” disease was passed through bad atmospheres, and the idea that little invisible germs lived on the hands of doctors if unwashed was just ridiculous, it just didn’t make sense with what was “known” to be scientific fact.

My feeling is that we are going through something similar right now. It feels like we are living through a second extraordinary event. A time where we are collectively assuming something as a society, which later the history books will show to be a flawed understanding.

We all sat daily and listened as the death count rose and fell during the actual pandemic, and then now, the information has been switched to “cases”. Firstly, I question the term “cases”. A “case” is a medical definition meaning the person requires hospitalisation and treatment. What they are actually reporting is positive tests.
Positive tests are always high after a pandemic because the tests can not distinguish between those who actively have the virus now, and those who have had it in the last few months but still carry dead/disabled virus cells. This is now not a theory, but confirmed by our government a few days ago (albeit very quietly).

Slowly but surely I’m starting to see creditable scientists coming forward to question what the assumptions are. My concern is that anything that questions what is going on is hijacked by conspiracy theorists and instantly becomes nonsense!
I think it’s perfectly sensible to question assumptions when they have had such a serious impact on our society. I’m hoping society creates a group of sensible, creditable individuals that can come forward and start to ask questions.

If you have any interest in wanting to hear a few of these interesting theories ... if you don’t know what a casedemic is... then I recommend listening to these clips.

This is a former chief scientific adviser stating his reasons why there is not a second wave! Long story short - it's the same reason why SARS and MERS didnt have a second wave:


And although this chap isn’t a scientist he is apt at examining data, and translating it into easy language for the public to understand. It's quite a slog at 40-odd minutes, but well worth your time. In a nutshell he's saying that, fundamentally, the pandemic is over, and has been since roughly late May/early June.


The mainstream media are now also starting to bring in question marks. This article from the BBC


"But cases are on the rise!", I hear you cry. Well, both of these videos are only a few days old, so the current rise in 'cases' is discussed in depth. What we should really be focusing on is the number of DEATHS related to Covid, as that's the only true measure of a pandemic's trajectory. I believe we're down to single figures now, with less than 1% of total daily deaths in England being attributed to Corona virus?


Here's another interesting article discussing how Sweden's big anti-lockdown gamble is looking like it may have paid off:


As a result of this little bout of research that I've been doing, I've come to a decision: I'm ditching the masks. I'm not gonna wear one anymore. Not indoors, not in shops, not to walk to a table in a restaurant, and definitely not to a theme park.
I know what you're thinking: "You can't do that Howie, masks are mandatory in shops n stuff".
Well, yes... unless you're exempt. And to be exempt, all you have to do is say to yourself "I'm exempt". That's it. You don't need to have any medical ailment, or breathing difficulties, or one lung, or a psychological condition, or anything at all. You just need decide for yourself if you're exempt or not. This isn't some sneaky loophole that allows you to 'get round' the law, it's the actual legal stance of the current guidelines - whether or not someone is exempt is entirely down to the individual. No documentation or written proof is required and once it's been established that you're exempt, anyone who questions that fact is themselves breaking the law. Even the police aren't permitted to challenge you any further.
The UK government has mastered the art of making laws that are unenforceable.
See for yourself, download and print your own 'I'm Exempt' badges/lanyards here:

As I said earlier, I'm not political and I have no comment on whether the mask policy or the newly introduced rule of 6 'make sense', and I'm certainly not getting into any verbal fisticuffs with anyone who thinks I'm being selfish or irresponsible. Rather I'd encourage you to look past the alarmist headlines and start looking at some of the new research constantly being published and decide for yourself whether or not things 'make sense'. I think it's important that we all seek out credible, alternative viewpoints alongside our daily dose of the official line and to raise questions about the assumptions these measures to control our lives are based on.
If this questioning doesn't resonate with you, that's totally cool, 95% of the media is with you. Wear your mask, stay safe and scroll on.
But for anyone with a slightly curious mind who wants to look at things slightly differently, I hope this post has been of interest.
 
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JammyH

Member
Sorry @Howie, your post is [wrong]. The pandemic is not over, 2 days ago we recorded over 6000 worldwide deaths and Spain’s death toll is now increasing as they recorded over 230 daily deaths.

There is a lag on cases and hospital admissions and deaths. UK cases are increasing and so are hospital admissions, in fact for the first time in a long time we now have over 100 covid patients on ventilators and hospital admissions rise daily. These are the figures which need to be focussed on. We are only starting to see what is about to come over the next few months and it’s idiots like you who are making the situation worse day in and out and putting vulnerable people’s lives at risk.

[snip]

Discussion over.
 
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