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Cedar Point | Top Thrill 2 | Triple Launch Renovation | 2024

The Undead Creature said:
šŸ˜ˆ *rubs hands together*

LSMs are an order of magnitude more efficient than they were 20 years ago. Modern drives are limited only by how much juice you can shove through them.

The advantage of a hydraulic launch is that it spreads the energy requirement of the launch over about 30 seconds or so, it makes the ride a bit more power grid friendly. An electric launch would need a more substantial power connection to handle the periodic power spikes. Not that it would be impossible though.

To give you a rough idea of the numbers involved, TTD uses 4, 400KW motors and between them they take about 30 seconds to charge up the accumulators. This leaves a nice 48MJ of energy trying to barge its way back out the gate valves.
When it comes time to launch, the accumulators donate this energy to the train and catch car for about 3 seconds which translates to a power output of 16MW.

A 16MW electric drive is not beyond the realms of pissibility with modern stators and VFDs. And at that power rate, you would actually get to 120mph a bit faster because there's no 2 tonne catch car to ....... well..... catch at the end of the launch.

Another bonus is that the trains won't need any upgrading as the Intrasys magnets work with synchronous motors just fine.
Click to expand...
*THIS* is obviously what I'm here for, unfettered @The Undead Creature. ;)

Indeed was chatting about this with fellow EV colleagues who are also roller coaster nerds - the general advances in electric motors, especially being able to get more power out of smaller space, would theoretically translate to LSM launch track, at least in the sense that you could get a higher speed launch than say 5 years ago.
Trax said:
The last page is quite interesting: Apparently Intamin has grenlit CP to only inspect 17% of all critical components of the trains, due to the limited use in 2020.
They only did a complete inspection of 1 car on 5 of the 6 trains on TTD, the others received a close visual inspection.
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This was what I was zeroing in on as well with all of my page 3 speculation. Despite Intamin OKing Cedar Point to do limited inspection/certification, I still hypothosize a full, thorough re-inspection of the entire ride could be in the cards for this year. Ultimately, we'll just keep an eye out for any activity, if at all, at the ride throughout the 2022 season.
 
The Undead Creature said:
Another bonus is that the trains won't need any upgrading as the Intrasys magnets work with synchronous motors just fine.
Click to expand...

While the Intrasys magnets might work with LSMs, the issue becomes the arrangement. The Accelerator trains are designed to accommodate the catch car as well as the drive tires in the center of the track/train with a very wide, dual brake fin placement. The LSM coasters are typically designed to accommodate the thick stators slightly off center from the train with the skid plates for the drive tires slightly off center to the other side. And I'm not entirely sure the hitches on TTD's trains are high enough to allow for stators to pass under them.

Therefore, the trains would either need to be modified or replaced to account for the LSM design, or the LSM system would have to be redesigned to accommodate the Accelerator train's magnet/brake configuration.
 
Indy said:
While the Intrasys magnets might work with LSMs, the issue becomes the arrangement. The Accelerator trains are designed to accommodate the catch car as well as the drive tires in the center of the track/train with a very wide, dual brake fin placement. The LSM coasters are typically designed to accommodate the thick stators slightly off center from the train with the skid plates for the drive tires slightly off center to the other side. And I'm not entirely sure the hitches on TTD's trains are high enough to allow for stators to pass under them.

Therefore, the trains would either need to be modified or replaced to account for the LSM design, or the LSM system would have to be redesigned to accommodate the Accelerator train's magnet/brake configuration.
Click to expand...
Bring back the old Premier sideskirt LIM launch fins - just bolt-on upgrade, right? ;)
 
Indy said:
While the Intrasys magnets might work with LSMs, the issue becomes the arrangement. The Accelerator trains are designed to accommodate the catch car as well as the drive tires in the center of the track/train with a very wide, dual brake fin placement. The LSM coasters are typically designed to accommodate the thick stators slightly off center from the train with the skid plates for the drive tires slightly off center to the other side. And I'm not entirely sure the hitches on TTD's trains are high enough to allow for stators to pass under them.

Therefore, the trains would either need to be modified or replaced to account for the LSM design, or the LSM system would have to be redesigned to accommodate the Accelerator train's magnet/brake configuration.
Click to expand...

You are thinking of the more common drives made by Indrivetec Intamin use on their Blitz coasters. Which is true as they are wider and can handle more power.

But the Intrasys stators are compatible with the existing 20mm magnet yokes, they wouldn't interfere with anything any more than the normal brake fins would.

I'm assuming hitches refers to the trains couplings? If so, they are well above the track and would be "hidden" by the trains chassis, there is about 150mm between the end of the coupling shaft and the brake fin.
The closest part to the fin is actually the wheel bogie pivot axle. There is only 3mm of clearance between the end of the axle and the fin.
Intamin trains are not very forgiving when it comes to aligning them... šŸ˜‹

Hyde said:
*THIS* is obviously what I'm here for, unfettered @The Undead Creature. ;)
Click to expand...

Sounds like a euphemism šŸ˜
 
The Undead Creature said:
You are thinking of the more common drives made by Indrivetec Intamin use on their Blitz coasters. Which is true as they are wider and can handle more power.

But the Intrasys stators are compatible with the existing 20mm magnet yokes, they wouldn't interfere with anything any more than the normal brake fins would.

I'm assuming hitches refers to the trains couplings? If so, they are well above the track and would be "hidden" by the trains chassis, there is about 150mm between the end of the coupling shaft and the brake fin.
The closest part to the fin is actually the wheel bogie pivot axle. There is only 3mm of clearance between the end of the axle and the fin.
Intamin trains are not very forgiving when it comes to aligning them... šŸ˜‹
Click to expand...

My point is that I don't see Intamin using anything but Indrivetec for a hypothetical upgrade to LSMs. They solely use Indrivetec LSM systems, so the trains would either need to be modified/replaced, a new launch system that is compatible with the current train design would need to be created, or Cedar Fair would have to go directly through Intrasys which is not likely.
 
Are we sure tire launch has been fully ruled out?

giphy.gif
 
They should just reconfigure it so the station is at the top of the top hat, and you have to climb up the stairs to get there (like the old arrow looper thingos). then the way back up can be a traditional chainlift

theme parks should just hire me, i'm on fire
 
If Cedar Point would spend all the money to replace the launch system they would probably buy new trains aswell. These trains have been shot up to high speeds for almost 20 years. They surely are not in mint condition anymore.
 
Maybe the earlier posts werenā€™t clear enough: It is currently not viable to refit TTD with LSMs.
Using the single modules Intamin has been using since the beginning, the launch track would have to be significantly extended. Look at Red force (which has newer, supposedly lighter, trains which also happen to be shorter) which takes nearly the double amount of time to launch its trains.

Using double LSMs would mean a complete refit of the trains, if not new ones. Even Intamin would have to spend a significant amount of work to redesign their existing trains, if CP wants to get completely new ones with that.
In addition, LSM modules from Indrivetec are expensive. Really expensive. You could get a car from the money to buy a single LSM module.
In addition, the amount of energy required to launch a train takes a significant effort. Six Flags MM caused power outages when superman first opened, and TTD would likely require even more power. Sure, you can use buffers, but those are expensive to store that amount of energy.
For comparison: Taron can pull up to 2,5 MVA (thatā€™s input, so before efficiency losses), Red Force already takes 4,5MVA. TTD would be around 5,5-6MVA with a extended launch or even higher if they donā€™t want to move the whole tower.

A LSM refit is not realistic.

Sorry if my writing is off, I had to type this on my phone.
 
I was **** on by multiple people in this fandom for saying I doubt TTD comes back.

Optimism is fine, but people should have been realistic.
 
Wonder if this will be getting a similar system to Mr Freeze in Texas. Both different launch technology for sure but could both be being retrofitted with the same kind of system?

Is there a company that's recently come out with a launch retrofitting service? I'll be at IAAPA Europe next week so might keep my eye open.
 
The tweet seems to suggest a possibility that the park could be ā€œrevivingā€ it in the form of a TTD Mk2, if you like (I found the use of ā€œas you know itā€ very interesting).

I am somewhat sad about this (I was very keen to ride it!), but I must admit that Iā€™m not 100% surprised after the events of the last year or so. It should also be noted that the ride was allegedly somewhat unreliable even when it did operate.

I can sense that this ride will now be topping a number of ā€œfavourite defunct coasterā€ listsā€¦

RIP Top Thrill Dragster 2003-2021
 
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