Canada's Wonderland |"Leviathan"| B&M HyperGiga

[TarkaTrax]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^That is total crap. It's crap. It's not invalid because it isn't a one-to-one comparison. You can get off your high horse now (or Robb's high horse, rather).

^^CWL does not need any more variety in their coasters... They have a family launch, a boomerang, a hypercoaster, a small looper, an invert, a wild mouse, a traditional kiddie, a wood kiddie, a suspended kiddie, an out-and-back woodie, a standup, a powered coaster, a flying coaster, a suspended coaster, a compact woodie, and now a gigacoaster. That's way more variety than most parks. Just because they aren't all B&Ms and Intamins does not mean they don't have variety.

And seriously, even if you think it looks too much like Behemoth, you cannot honestly think they are going to ride at all the same, right? That's ignorant.

What are you smoking? I invented those numbers? It's perfectly reasonable to compare them on factors other than layout. And I'm not the one who brought the comparison up.

Seeing as none of us have ridden a B&M Giga, none of us know exactly how it'll ride. But it's not going to be that different to Behemoth. That's what people are confused about. Not that it's a bad coaster, but it's probably going to be very similar.

But I sure will enjoy the 3% steeper drop

(By the way, stating your source is nothing to do with high horses, it's just good manners.)

 

[steel]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^No, your numbers don't mean anything. The cost of the ride makes no difference, and differences in length and height are arbitrary. Millennium Force and Leviathan are meant to do one thing and Magnum and Behemoth are meant to do another. If you can't understand that, you shouldn't be arguing against it. Your source has nothing to do with your high horse, but your high horse does.


^^They have three Vekoma clones, and one is a kiddie coaster.
Here, try a coaster-to-coaster comparison to Cedar Point.
Wild Beast vs. Mean Streak - Wild Beast (CP 0, CWL 1)
Vortex vs. Iron Dragon - Vortex (CP 0, CWL 2)
Thunder Run vs. Disaster Transport - Disaster Transport (CP 1, CWL 2)
Taxi Jam vs. Jr. Gemini - Jr. Gemini (CP 2, CWL 2)
SkyRider vs. Mantis - Mantis (CP 3, CWL 2)
Silver Streak vs. Woodstock's Express - Silver Streak (CP 3, CWL 3)
Mighty Canadian Minebuster vs. Blue Streak - Mighty Canadian Minebuster (CP 3, CWL 4)
Fly vs. Wildcat - draw (CP 3, CWL 4)
Flight Deck vs. Raptor - Raptor (CP 4, CWL 4)
Dragon Fire vs. Corkscrew - draw (CP 4, CWL 4)
Bat vs. Wicked Twister - Wicked Twister (CP 5, CWL 5)
Backlot Stunt Coaster vs. Maverick - Maverick (CP 6, CWL 5)
Ghoster Coaster vs. Cedar Creek Mine Ride - draw (CP 6, CWL 5)
Behemoth vs. Magnum - Behemoth (CP 6, CWL 6)
Leviathan vs. Millennium Force - we'll say draw for now (CP 6, CWL 6)

We're left with Time Warp at CWL and Gemini and TTD at CP, so we'll give CP an extra two points.
Cedar Point still wins, of course, but Canada's Wonderland comes damn close. It does fine for itself.

B&M has never done anything like the tiny hill after the first overbank on Leviathan. There is nothing remotely like that on Behemoth. Nor is there anything even a little like the first and third overbanked turns on Behemoth. And the first drop will absolutely be way more intense. 306 feet at 80 degrees is far enough from 230 feet at 75 degrees to make a big difference. The camelbacks will probably feel similar. They will both be smooth. The hammerheads will be similar. That's where it ends.

 

[Intricks]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

**** it. I hope this isnt built now. Cedar Fair just needs to ignore all ither parks and focus on their baby and just put in filler **** if this is all that is going to happen. This thread is nothing short of a pissing contest with all this bitching about how it seems to similar to a group of coaster enthusiests who do nothing but noticie similarities and believe a new type of ride being built by an amazing and high quality manufacturer is going to be forceless because all their other rides built in the past are apparently "trimmed balls free", REGARDLESS of the fact that their current construction projects look more forceful and intense than most others.

**** it, done with this thread.

Steel, good luck on continuing the good fight. I wish you the best and will see you on the other site.

Switching between the hideouts'...

 

[Pokemaniac]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Oh, how I was proven wrong. In a wonderful way.

I LOVE how B&M finally has broken the 75 m barrier. This makes way for higher expectations, though, so their next creation is sure to disappoint us.
I think the coaster looks great. Tied in with Behemoth, it can also be used marketing-wise. I mean, they're both big and all, and in the eyes of the public, CWL now has TWO f-ing huge have-to-go-there-just-to-ride-it coasters. Behemoth vs- Leviathan.

Now I'm waiting for Ziz. Flying coaster, anyone?

Great news at the end of the day...

 

[TarkaTrax]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

^^Calm down... Can't speak for anyone else, but I think it's all been quite civilized so far (for a forum...)

^^^They do mean something - MF, when compared to Magnum, was a much bigger leap forward. This is a more of an evolution. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's pretty weird when they're in the same park.

When you say B&M's never done anything the small hill, take a look at this:

http://www.rcdb.com/3621.htm?p=18651

It's not exactly the same, and it's a much smaller ride, but it's not totally dissimilar. You'll be pleased to hear that it's a very fun little swoop, but it's not hugely forceful or anything.

Thing is, I don't think Leviathan's trying to do anything radically different. MF or I:305 are mostly long curves with a couple of hills thrown in. They're very different to hypers. This is two high turns, two low turn/hill things, a hammerhead and two camelbacks. We know how most of those things ride. Again, it looks good, but it's like a hyper layout with two low hills. It's not different enough.

I think the answer is in what others have said. If it was designed for this park, it would look much different. It really looks like a great ride for another park that's unfortunate enough to end up in a park that already has a very recent and similar ride.

 

[troikaX3]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

That small hill on Leviathan is not going to add anything to the ride experience that isn't already found on Behemoth.

 

[Ethan]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

That small hill on Leviathan is not going to add anything to the ride experience that isn't already found on Behemoth.

It will, lots of airtime, and at faster speeds while heavily banking. So you are wrong. -_-
But I admit it won't add a lot.

 

[bob_3_]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

lol get a grip and go for a walk Intricks, let everyone discuss and express their opinions. I think this is the most suprising coaster announcement we've seen in a good while.

After having some time to digest it all, I think it'll be a great addition and a really fun ride. The height gives it a great marketing point ("we've broken the highest coaster in canada record..AGAIN go us" or "the tallest ride of it's type in the world") and I'm sure it'll be a success. Also..THAT OVERBANK, never seen B&M do one quite as insane as this one, it's almost inversion worthy. With the restraints and the height of the thing it'll be loads of fun.

What I don't] understand however...is the brake run. It's so long =/.

 

[tomahawk]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Looking at the layout again, and the 100' high brake run, I think this may not the true FINAL layout, and the reason I say that is it just doesn't work. Why have a brake run towering over another ride. I think we may see a helix following directly after the last over bank with a water splash effect at the bottom. That is if they had a trick up there sleeve, but, I doubt it.

 

[bob_3_]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I think this may not the true FINAL layout,

Nah it is the final one. The plans for a ride must be absolutely finalized before the track gets manufactured. And seeing as the tracks already there...

 

[tomahawk]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

It has happened before though, that what is built isn't what is final. Didn't Raptor at Gardaland get an extra heartline roll or something?

 

[Titan]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Look, we simply cant tell how similar or dissimilar this ride's experience will be from behemoth. We simply dont know. We dont know what a B&M giga is like. Adding 70ft will make a huge difference in speed and exposure, especially in an open B&M train. Intimidator (carowinds, not I305) is simply an out and back as well, and even though its short on paper you dont notice that on the ride.

It could be great, it could suck, point is we dont know, stop acting like you do.

I do personally think this is a bad decision for them for all the reasons already discussed above, but theres been so many bad decisions I cant get all frustrated by them.

 

[bob_3_]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

It has happened before though, that what is built isn't what is final. Didn't Raptor at Gardaland get an extra heartline roll or something?

No, they never did a rendering or release the layout.

 

[marc]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

What is really clear this year and next is that B&M are raising their game and they needed to.

The latest coasters they have been building are going in a different direction from the past years and this is good.

Plus they also seem to be making more than 3 coasters a year which is also new for them.

As I said before I have nothing against this coaster, the layout looks great as do the trains etc.

We are not the only people to say its a strange choice for this park though, but it does sound like Knotts will be getting the same type of coaster btw.

 

[emery96]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I think we should all just be happy its not Cedar Fair red...

 

[Snoo]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Haha.. I missed a few pages. Oo well.

 

[Hyde]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I'll go ahead and insert another point of discussion (which has absolutely zero factual backing :razz: ) :

Could it be possible that Cedar Fair decided to go with B&M for the 300 ft. coaster because of Intamin's awful track record? (i.e. when the heck was the last Cedar Fair Intamin that didn't break?)

Speculate.

 

[tomahawk]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

I think this is an experiment to see if B&M can be reliable. It will be real interesting if the rumored giga for KBF is Intamin because then they could just compare the reliability and issues that pop up, if that is B&M, well then it might be time to conclude CF is finally done (for now) with Intamin.

 

[Hyde]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

It will sure be an interesting experiment. The first question that came to mind was the lift hill. I know B&M have improved their lift hill technology to be faster and quieter, but will we see a new system for the 300 ft. height? Chain lifts are only so effective.

 

[Antinos]

Re: Leviathan - B&M giga coaster for Canada's Wonderland

Ok, before I pitch in my two cents, I would like to say that I personally think that the ride will be a good ride. It looks quite fun and forceful and hopefully I will be able to ride it next year.

I agree with Ben for once. This addition doesn't really make sense to me. This and Behemoth are very similar. For everybody using the argument that Milf and Magnum are similar due to their layouts, the same argument can be said about Behemoth and Leviathan. Taking away all that all four rides do and just looking at their footprints, they're all basically out and back coasters - the gigas both being a bit more twisty. Yes, Millennium Force runs out to the island in the center of the park and Magnum runs out along the beach. At the same time, Behemoth runs out along the lake and Leviathan runs out along the parking lot. This is where Intricks' argument applies. Once you add the elements back into the layout, it's obvious that Magnum's triangular hills and poorly banked turns differ greatly from Millennium Force's parabolic hills and perfectly banked overbanked turns.

Another argument for Behemoth's and Leviathan's similarity is that they are technically the same type of roller coaster. Look at the products list:

http://www.bolliger-mabillard.com/produ ... ts_en.aspx


Do you see giga coaster? You see hyper coaster, which is also called mega coaster by B&M. I apologize for not being able to find a photo, but every B&M piece has a tag with a ID code on it which identifies the type of coaster. The tag for a mega coaster will say MC-XXXX(whatever the numbers or letters are). Both Behemoth's track pieces and Leviathan's track pieces have(had) tags with the same ID code. Yes, one is 300 feet tall and the other is 230, but they're the same type of coaster.

Another item to point out. People WILL get the two rides confused. I've seen many people get Millennium Force and Magnum confused before, which is a crying shame. A lot of people don't realize it, but there are a ton of legitimately stupid people out there.

My next item is just a small personal beef. I personally think it would have been cooler if Leviathan was built on Behemoth's spot and Behemoth on Leviathan's, or the two rides just switched identities. If Leviathan is a sea monster, and Behemoth is a land monster, the sea monster named ride should be next to the lake(where Behemoth is).

Is the park still going to make a lot of money? Yes. I just said that there are pretty stupid people out there and people aren't going to instantly recognize the similarities like us. When they get to the park, they'll see a few similar qualities between both rides. I still don't believe that this is a good fit for the park, especially with Behemoth built three years ago. A B&M flyer, dive machine, floorless, or wing coaster would have been a much more fitting and complimenting addition, but I'm not in charge of planning and development.

With all this being said, I still think the ride is going to be good. I'm not going to expect anything incredible, because chances are that the airtime will only be floater and you're not going to be pinned in your seat for seconds. Regardless, I still look forward to riding it.