Okay, I'll try to bring this back on topic by using all this argument to prove why this is happening in the US
furie said:
The real difference is that the "white Christian" population in the UK by and large seems to feel oppressed for some reason and that is what causes the violence; rather than how it is in the US where it's the oppressed who are fighting and lashing out.
I post that back on page two and McGC backs it up (not that he's a Christian, but falls under that kind of 'doing okay white bloke' section of the majority of society).
For whatever reason, 50 years ago the black minority in the US was seen as an underclass. Even given the same rights as the white majority, they were still perceived as an underclass. This is purely down to the perpetration of that "idea". Part of that may be from the way that (through segregation and ghettos) the population was perceived that helped perpetrate the idea. Part of it will be well meaning "I'm not racist, but..." and "it's just my opinion, but...". Part of it will be media.
We're seeing in this conversation the middle bit, obviously. The issue is that McGC (I'm not picking on you as such, just the way you've come across which is endemic to this issue) may only state this opinion once here. It's based on all of the other parts of this issue (media representation, perception based on government "terror threat", etc.) and it's fine to have an opinion. The issue is that by stating it here, just by saying "in general, Muslims shouldn't be trusted because there are a minority that are willing to kill" perpetuates the problem. If three people read that, it validates their opinions. Smithy in this case is trying to temper that and show an alternative opinion.
This isn't about the argument though, it's about the perpetuation of negative attributes towards a race/religion. In the US, you now have 50+ years of that perpetuation that has caused the racial split to simmer and become something deeper than it should.
Just one voice being negative can have a snowball effect down the line that keeps a part of society under a form of oppression. The very fact that we're talking about whites, blacks, Muslims or Christians rather than people says it all. As soon as people are put in a box, then there's segregation and some form of negativity towards them. Every person HAS to be taken individually as who THEY are, not the box they are in. Aresholes are arseholes no matter what their race, creed or political viewpoint.
So the best thing to do is to not say anything or randomly believe anything and let people prove themselves to be arseholes for whatever reason they choose to excuse it
I will try to put this "Muslims are evil" thing into some kind of context and to explain why perpetuation of a thing is bad. I grew up just outside of Warrington. My cousin worked in the McDonalds that was opposite the IRA explosion that killed 2 children and injured 54 others. The staff from McDonalds were the first on the scene to help assist the wounded and the registered first aiders from McDonalds potentially saved lives.
Just before I arrived in Stafford, there was an attempted IRA attack on the RAF base here. It was stopped though. During that period of the early 90's, there were a lot of IRA attacks and the threat level was high.
Now, based on that, surely my opinion should be "all Irish people are terrorists and shouldn't be trusted. I'm not racist and I have several Irish friends, but they're all going to blow up me and my family."
Well no, because that's ridiculous due to the fact that the Irish are white, Christian and we like their country. So nobody ever thought like that but put the troubles down to extremists.
See the point when it's all gathered up? If people are "different" then ANY perpetuation keeps them oppressed.
Now, I mentioned about the McDonalds workers that punctuates this point. After the bombing attack on Warrington, it came out in the press that McDonalds "supported the IRA". An invoice for the corporation showed payments to "IRA".
Now suddenly, the employees in the McDonalds in Warrington started to get death threats because they worked for a business that supported the IRA. The same people who had risked their lives to save victims of the bomb getting death threats.
Perpetuation was the key here again. The media ran that McDonalds supported the IRA. In reality (and it was redacted rapidly) the payments to IRA are a standard accounting thing in the US - it's like paying into a fund or something and has nothing to do with the IRA. The problem was, that the area was suddenly filled with "I'm not a vegetarian, but Mcdonalds supports the IRA", "I'm just saying what everyone else is thinking, the McDonalds' Corp. killed two kids!" and "I'm eating a Big Mac right now, and still think McDonalds are murdering bastards!"
It may have been one person on a message board, somebody in the pub perpetuating the lie or just a misguided bit of mail to a newspaper. Whatever it was, it led to innocent people being threatened.
Perpetuation, don't do it
Once again, I'll quote myself and then move onto the Riots over here a few years ago to help bring this into stark contrast:
furie said:
The real difference is that the "white Christian" population in the UK by and large seems to feel oppressed for some reason and that is what causes the violence; rather than how it is in the US where it's the oppressed who are fighting and lashing out.
In the US, the black minority are fed up with being treated so differently that they're rioting against the oppression. There is violence of the oppressed minority against "government".
In the UK during the riots, three Asian men were killed by rioting whites. The men killed were the minority, those rioting had no reason other than "we feel threatened by the minorities". Perpetuation that the minorities are and issue is a major problem in this country and needs to be put down, or we'll never move on and see people as people.
