Alton Towers | The Smiler | Gerstlauer Infinity

[T0M]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

^ I hope it's useful as well.

This is certainly a Gertslauer Euro-Fighter, but perhaps a new variant.

I estimate the drops will be 100 feet or slightly more combined with the moderate excavation work proposed in the plans (which you should study in their entirety, little clues exist in all documents).

 

[Josh73]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

I doubt it would happen, but I think Mack could conjure up something nice in an area like that.

 

[Casio]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Have I missed something here? We've sussed that it doesn't have a beyond vertical drop, so how can it be a Eurofighter? Sure, it may be a Gerstlauer, and it looks like it would be a new model, but surely the definition of a Eurofighter is the plus-vertical drop?

People don't seem to have such a problem with Gerstlauer launches like Anubis, it'd be a massive shame if this is a Gerstlauer and gets put down just because people don't like a different model made by them.

That being said, I reckon it's an X-Car.

 

[marc]

New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

The reason why I don't think it's a eurofighter is due to saw and the cancelled coaster for heidi, yes I am taking a former workers word here but they were going to sue them due to the Saw problems. I will be shocked if it's them. But then again we were told Merlin would never buy an Intamin again and they did.

Not being funny or anything but people from other sites claims 13 would be a B&M and told people this was confirmed.

Until its confirmed I will not rule anything out but for me it's between 3 companies. Intamin, vekoma and Maurer.

 

[Kebab]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

^ Or just put it here..

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6m7bWmgd4E&context=C3741272ADOEgsToPDskJcDdPTBawZtMj_bE3Sbytl[/youtube]

It's a bit early to make a mock-up of the layout, theres so little known about this right now, but great precreation nontheless!

I don't think the type of track in the plans is necessary, didn't Th13teen look to have box track in the plans in which everyone thought 'Mega-Lite'?

I'm guessing it'll be something on the lines of this:

 

[Muttlee]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

The planning application noise report is at...

Noise Report PDF


Point 3.1 is the interesting one about being the same type and manufacturer as Saw at Thorpe

EDIT: Link should now work, sorry!

 

[marc]

New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Yes that's been said earlier, as someone else pointed out that knows about these things it means nothing as its written by someone that does not know about manufactures.

As I said before I could be wrong but I just don't think it's them due to what I said before.

 

[T0M]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

It's logical to assume that Alton Towers have checked the content of that report. False information featuring in the plans is unlikely to be favourable.

 

[marc]

New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

It's just noise it's not planning, it's been explained by costar about 3 pages back.

Was 13 anything like x which was the example being used then?

 

[T0M]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

The noise report is part of a package of documents which make up the entire planning application, it is integral to the proposal and will be taken into account by the committee.

It may have been carried out by a third party, but I think that makes it even more likely that they wouldn't feel confident making such a specific comparison without input from Alton Towers.

 

[marc]

New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Its explained better by him, but what he was saying was just because they mentioned the ride type etc it does not mean that it.

 

[T0M]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Given the noise complaints and legal challenges they have had (specifically in this area of the park), I cannot under any circumstances believe that such a false statement would get through in the plans.

If you want me to give you odds on it being someone else other than Gerstlauer, I'll take your money and pay 250/1 :lol:

 

[spicy]

New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

I would definitely have a £10 punt on those odds! :lol:

To be honest that noise comparison still wouldn't be completely accurate because the track type is clearly different to Saw's.

I'm still saying X-car myself.

 

[Kebab]

Re: New

Was 13 anything like x which was the example being used then?

^Underwhelming could be the word here. But not quite on that degree...
But you do have a valid point, all it says on the application about Saw is this:

Measurements of a similar coaster at Thorpe Park have been used to model and predict
noise levels from the proposed 2013 ride

'Similar' meaning a few things; it could be a similar model, it could be a similar layout, it could be similar through statistics (height, speed etc.). It doesn't have to be a Euro-Fighter, but we'll never know until then.

 

[Smithy]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Going back a page to Ben/Mark/Joey's points, think it was Furie I read had said about the no need for a planning application for it because of a part where they essentially said "We can build this ride regardless of the outcome but included it to show you the full plans" or something or other.

But yeah seems strange given the area it's in that they could build freely, really can't decide whether or not a cluster of track will look good in the X Sector given the thing I love about the area is how imposing Oblivion is.

 

[Hixee]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Going back a page to Ben/Mark/Joey's points, think it was Furie I read had said about the no need for a planning application for it because of a part where they essentially said "We can build this ride regardless of the outcome but included it to show you the full plans" or something or other.

But yeah seems strange given the area it's in that they could build freely, really can't decide whether or not a cluster of track will look good in the X Sector given the thing I love about the area is how imposing Oblivion is.

I don't know anything about where Alton can building when and what they can build how, but I don't really see why it's so strange they've submitted planning permission. Bear in mind this post will be written off facts I've 'remembered' from the topic, I'm not going to go and do research!

Even if they don't have to get planning permission to build, SURELY they have to prove their new structure won't breach any of the restrictions. I mean, it's just obvious to me...

Also, wasn't there something about one of the buildings being too tall? In which case, they'll be 'killing two birds with one stone' by asking for permission to build the breaching structure, but also to show that the rest of the structure is within the restrictions placed on them.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Someone mentioned Mack on the page prior, and I actually was betting for a Mack launch when rumours first appeared about the Flume site. To me it seemed logical it would be a ground hugging launcher, similar to Cheeta Hunt, with perhaps a water splash or something. My logic was that if it wasn't Intamin, it would be Mack. Logical because, well... What else could Alton possibly build with their restrictions and quickly disappearing space?

Looking at these plans though, how much further from mine and everyones best guess could it possibly have been? Nothing about it seems Mack to me, now. And the location and height and existence of 2 lift hills. My mind has just exploded.

I'm surprised how many people are expecting Gerstlaur. I think there is a heck of a lot of evidence against that. The only single piece of evidence suggesting Gerstlame is that noise report, which I'm skeptical of for the fact that it is worded so poorly. That and Costar, who knows his stuff, suspects it could be written by a non-ride savvy consultant. I agree - you'd really be surprised how many people involved with the industry don't have a **** clue - but I also think their choice of wording is just odd full stop. Earlier in the report, they say "Measurements of a similar coaster at Thorpe Park have been used to model and predict noise levels from the proposed 2013 ride." Now, I don't know why you'd specify "“Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the proposed ride" in the first place...? True or otherwise. And the whole sentence " The Thorpe Park ride, “Saw” is the same type and manufacturer as the proposed ride, including a “beyond vertical” drop." fails to make any sense because the new ride has no vertical drop. Unless it's in the building, but that wouldn't be sound relevant anyway. So that's why I like Costar's theory.

Others have pointed out that when Thirteen was being built, they compared noise levels to X:/ No Way Out. It would be interesting to see that report, if anyone wants to go digging... Why would they compare noise levels to X of all things? To me, that just goes to show how irrelevant the noise assessment is to determining ride type.

Even if they don't have to get planning permission to build, SURELY they have to prove their new structure won't breach any of the restrictions. I mean, it's just obvious to me...

Yeah, this is my logic too.

The single most confusing thing about this proposal is where it is for me. Why have they taken so long to build there? I was always under the impression they were looking for something to put in the tent to save money and to hide it completely, all Oblivion style, because then they really wouldn't have to apply for planning. I bet the rumours about it going in Forbidden Valley that filtered down through staff were true, just outdated? I wonder if eventually then we will see a ride for the real valley, when they do find something perfect? I had assumed we hadn't seen one because it just wasn't possible for them to remove that many trees, or hide it, or get the funding?

Also, I'd not be surprised if it's theme is related to Oblivion's, heavily so... Going back to my theory about the Alton Towers Greats competition, Nemesis Sub-Terra and the concept of building on existing themes to create solid brands that guests understand better. The Greats competition seemed to be trying to make guests really think about each ride and how it differs from the others to pick a favourite, as well as trying to tap into enthusiasts to build hype about Nemesis for 2012 by allowing repeat voting.

Just a random thought here, but thinking back to the utter mind-blown-ness of Busch Gardens Williamsburg and Verbolten... I really could be any manufacturer, and I wonder if it's Zierra? They are building for Merlin this year and they have built a similar ride before and it's "similar to Saw" in terms of noise, I would have thought.

Though, I really don't think whatever it is will have small trains/single cars, because of capacity and a lack of block brakes. Hense why it's Intamin or MS. Capacity, I think, has got to be one of the biggest issues surrounding the addition of a new ride at Towers.

 

[Mysterious Sue]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

Given the noise complaints and legal challenges they have had (specifically in this area of the park), I cannot under any circumstances believe that such a false statement would get through in the plans.

If you want me to give you odds on it being someone else other than Gerstlauer, I'll take your money and pay 250/1 :lol:

You've obviously never worked for a large company/the government.

Gaping holes and human errors are much easier to come across then you think :roll:

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

If it was Zierer I think a lot of enthusiasts around here would lie down on the A50 and wait for the inevitable

I think really there are 3 main choices for this, Gerstlauer, Mauer and (as the long shot), Zierer... Thing is these plans are nowhere near as detailed and well obvious as previous planning applications we can see for other rides... If we can barely work out the actual layout of it, what hope do we have for the manufacturer?

Either way, it's too early to tell with anything atm, but I'm going to stick with Gerstlauer atm mainly due to the Takibashi similarities this is showing... Although I wouldn't say no to Mauer either (as it would be good to have a GOOD X-Car in this country), but perhaps the proximity to Drayton and G-Farce might make Alton sceptical of going with Mauer? It's just impossible to tell atm really and until it's confirmed by the park (which won't be for months) there's just going to be circular arguements about this...

Regarding the earlier point of Thorpe sueing Gerstlauer regarding Saw... They did? Hard to say on that front, considering it was Thorpe that were trying to push the ride's operation so beyond the ride's capabilities... Bound to be arguements from both sides, but I don't know if that would affect Towers' perception on the company... Indeed, if one of Towers' managers went on Fluch or Takibashi then they might potentially think Gerstlauer are the best company to choose for a small compact thrill coaster...

Gonna be an interesting year... Sweepstakes on the number of pages on the construction topic?

 

[furie]

Re: New "world's first" coaster at Alton Towers 2013

This needs to float along the pages a bit :lol:

The ride is in an area that already has consent for a certain amount of development. The coaster plans are covered by this, but the height of the station building isn't covered by this general permission. Although it seems strange, AT have included the coaster plans for a "full and complete representation".

In essence, at some point in the past Alton have been given the rights to install amusement rides in that area. There's mention of a 2011 law, which suggests that maybe it was unclear before last year, but with the new laws they've got the opportunity to do this. It's probably something like "if an area has already been given over to amusement rides, then take it as read you can keep on having amusement rides in the area as long as they're within the original remit". This is why the height of 195m is so important, as it's lower than the highest point on Oblivion (and the reason it's from sea level is because it affects the views from over the Churnet Valley, which means you need an absolute measurement, not ground level on-site).

Though did Oblivion get planning permission?

My personal thought is that this means they've submitted a noise report which wouldn't actually have been needed for the building, but with the ongoing Ropers argument in this area of the park is a nice little document to enhance towers side.

This is just right I think. The building is a solid structure, not a ride, so it needs planning permission. I think that with the current situation Alton are playing it smart and saying "oh, by the way, we're doing this as well so don't be shocked!" They have clearly said though that they'll build whether the planning application for the building is approved or not. They've actually been quite 'slack' on this proposal compared to Thirteen. If you look at the Thirteen proposal, it's all about every level of impact, the increase in numbers, etc, etc, etc. Here they've just kind of gone "it's legal,we're doing it; SMDC said Alton was important for area growth, we're doing it; nah, no ne visitors, we're doing it; on the site of an eye sore, we're doing it; no archaeology that hasn't already been disturbed, we're doing it; won't increase the noise, we're doing it; bollocks to the Ropers, we're doing it; two trees FFS, we're doing it; we're doing it, we're doing it, we're doing it, we're doing it!!!!

If you read point 3.1 of the Noise Report submitted with the application, it states... "The Thorpe Park ride "Saw" is the same type and manufacturer as the proposed ride." This pretty much confirms it's a varient of Eurofighter, although the layout and CAD track would suggest this is a new version we've not seen before.

I think the issue is that the covering letter and noise report contradict. I don't know which was written first, but you would generally (legally) always use the latest document as the "truth". I too suspect it was a slight mistake (the vertical drop thing casts doubt), but I'd say we're more in Gerstlauer territory. However, wasn't John reported as saying they were working with Vekoma on their newest ride? For me, the evidence of "documentation" points to Gerstlauer (40%), track type and layout MS (30%), Vekoma for track type and rumour (20%) and a prayer for the fanboys Intamin (10%)

Hope this info is useful!

Yes it was, thanks

I also recommend everyone read and digest the covering letter, fascinating stuff