Alton Towers, past, present & future, including SW7

[costar]

I'd love to actually see this survey, am I the only one who thinks it doesn't actually exist and was just used to pass off any questions regarding said woodie?

Nope!

That answer is complete bollocks and sounds like she made it up on the spot to me.

Wow, such strong feeling against this market research... I'm pretty sure it's true. In fact I think I've seen it somewhere. It has quotes from people in the research saying things like "it looks like it's made of matchsticks" etc. Pierre and bob_3_ are spot on. These are marketing experts. Yes, enthusiasts might know more about what actually makes a ride exciting but Merlin are trying to sell an idea to the public, not please a small minority. I don't know how thorough the research was and I know that it also depends on how the research is presented but the fact is, in general, the answer was "no, we don't really want that". Don't forget there would have been little kids and clueless mums and dads who were asked too.

We can only hope that their steel coaster line up is so strong one day that wood is the next logical step.

I did notice in the SFGAdv that El Toro didn't seem as popular as the older steel coasters there. It's clearly the best ride in the park, but its popularity isn't as high. this could still be attributed to a similar thing over here - wooden coasters are old hat, and old tech, and "old and unthrilling and possibly dangerous".

Funnily enough furie, I didn't find that at all. I was there on a really quiet day (last month) and El Toro and Kingda Ka were the only things that weren't walk on. People were lovin' El Toro, it was the most talked about ride from listening to people. In fact an employee told us to head there first in case the park got busy because they pull the crowds most...

I don't know when you went(?) but maybe a top wooden ride is something that takes time to grow on the public - i.e. when people start realising that it is the best ride in the park, then it pulls the crowds.

Hopefully Merlin take this view one day too...

 

[furie]

Ahhh... The dangers of short time anecdotal evidence. :lol:

I'll ask Jerry to come and comment, as he spends a fair amount of time at GAdv and will be able to give us a better idea.

Of course, there are things like throughput to take into account (and Ka was down that day too), but Superman, Nitro, Batman and Bizarro all had pretty long standard queues, but El Toro was walk on all day.

It doesn't matter massively, as market research is the key point here. However, I doubt anyone asked has seen anything quite as impressive (and solid looking) as El Toro :lol:

 

[bob_3_]

^ It's not really about queues too.

If you want to check what impact a ride makes on a park, you should check the gate figures. You want to build something that gets people through the entrance.

If the people who go through realise the new woodie there is great, there will be bigger queues as people wanna keep riding, but it won't necessarily mean the installation of the ride has increased the number of punters through the gates.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I think it's true that the GP think little of wooden coasters. I don't think they are so much concerned with safety, but I do believe that they think they are old and boring.

At Cedar Point I was wearing a Toro shirt, and a staff member on Blue Streak stopped me and asked what it was. Then he was like "...oh it's wooden" in that tone that suggested "oh it's ****ty". I told him it was better than anything at CP and he laughed... lots.

Toro bearly had a queue when I was there too, but not a lot else did either so it's hard to say. But those who did ride it clearly loved it.

I think it's true that it really relies on word of mouth to advertise wooden coasters.

There must be a reason why they don't want a woodie at Alton though... They aren't just trying to piss us all off. Alton have had success after success with building gimmicky rides - why would they change that and risk a flop?

The Black Hole tent thing is what pisses me off the most. Just get on with it already.

 

[Nic]

Once again, Furie is the voice of reason. Kudos to you, sir! He's right, it mjight not be so much about the GP seeing woodies as being unsafe, but more about them thinking they're a bit boring or old-fashioned.

Anyway, I agree with JayJay, if you want a woodie, take every possible opportunity to mention it on windscreenwiper and touchscreen surveys in the park. If they want surveys, we'll give them one. Anyone want to start a petition/facebook campaign? They seem to be all the rage these days. Cadbury Wispa anyone? Not sure how much difference it'd make though, even if we did manage to get enough responses. Sounds like their minds are made up.

Oh, and whoever reported that Morwenna won't see any brand tie-ins all the time she's working there? She has seen Sonic Spinball, right?

Here's my thoughts, for what they're worth...
I'm happy for them to concentrate on making the park family friendly, so long as they do it properly. Chessie have realised that the way to do it is to have different sizes of rides next to eachother so that everyone has something to do in each area of the park. In Alton at the moment, all of the family rides are in one area of the park, which means that family get segregated. Just look at how much time Furie and Madame_Furie get to spend together during a visit to the park... very little usually as they're both off in different places occupying children of different ages. In an ideal world, Alton need to spread the love a bit across the park to integrate different sizes of rides, to enable families to spend more time together.

Obviously an X-sector retheme/refurb is essential. However, looking at the half-arsed job they did on the 13 area (what's it even called?!), and rita's crappy new paint job, I'm not hopeful.

The trouble with Alton (and, actually, probably more Merlin) is that to make major improvements, they need to take major risks (ie, Rita really needed a re-name, but I guess they didn't as they were eorried that the GP would get confused and think it'd been ripped out/replaced/altered?)... Thing is, even if a UK merlin park installed "Giant Turd: The Ride" for 2011 (or worse, nothing!) people would still go because they're still the best parks in the UK. If anyone can afford to take some big risks, it's Merlin... but I guess they're just not brave enough to take them.

 

[marc]

Vadge I am glad it is not just me that though the re theme of Ugland was not that great. There is just nothing there, 13 and Rita that is all. They just seemed to have removed the Ugland theming put up a sign and there you go new area, but tbh anything is better than Ugland But again many people seem to like it, so maybe I am just to fussy.

I agree with what you have said as well about Merlin taking a risk. Many people will say they did with 13 though and thats the problem. Whilst the public like it Merlin will keep on doing rides like 13 and Saw, there is no real need for them to now build another top coaster like Nemesis for example as the public do not mind.

A company like Merlin should do better, but they have at Legoland that is where they seem to put the most work into. There are a lot of people that do not like the new area at Chessington, people have said its just the old land re painted and 1 new ride. I personally think the Wild Asia area is very good and I hated what was there before.

Everyone likes different things and Merlin are never going to please everyone. But there just seem to be a few of us that dont rate 13 and Saw or the new area.

 

[Nic]

Just for the record, I love 13. Yes, they ****ed up royally with the marketing, but it's a great little coaster. I went on it another 3 times last week (all back row, granted) and it's awesome. It's a great addition to the park, and hits the family demographic perfectly (or at least would've done, if they'd not scared them all off with the crap marketing!). Yes they could've improved the theme by doing more with the story, but hopefully this'll come in time. Obviously another world leading thrill coaster would be fantastic, but I wouldn't mind if their next installation was something along the same lines as tee-aitch-one-three-teen so long as they market it properly this time.

 

[Kebab]

This is ALTON TOWERS we're talking about; home to the world's first Dive Machine, Flying Coaster, Psychoaster and one of the first Inverted coasters? And after Th13teen, there's fat chance we're going to see a woodie, especially on the scale of that. I don't think many of you have seen the point with the whole valley drop scenario; it doesn't need to be a woodie, I mean, you could get away with a Mega-Lite of some sort, which has a surprise 200 foot drop into the valley, but with the rest of the ride it would by compact, air-time filled and forceful. But even so with that it's an extremely rare possibility without a true gimmick. Th13teen was marketed with a "free-fall" drop element, which has never before seen on any coaster in the world... You get my point, Alton have a clever way of making a rollercoaster more than a rollercoaster.

Realistically, they don't need to re-theme anything, it would be nice but at this moment everythings fine as it is. However, now with Dark Forest in the park, I for one am getting bored of this dark depressive conisistancy of themed areas (Forbidden Valley, X-Sector, Gloomy Wood etc.), it's getting a habit of the park to keep this gothic style of theming going around. I'm sure I heard this mentioned before in this topic; with X-Sector re-themed into a wild-west style land, that would be fantastic, and with Alton Towers aiming towards a family-orientated target audience I think it would be a success! There are some rides which Alton should consider getting rid of and re-modernising; and The Flume is definately one, and could easily be replaced with a better more gimmicky water ride, or even a Water coaster?

Who knows what holds for the future of Alton Towers, right now I haven't got much of a problem with it. I can see Black Hole replaced with a family-style flat ride for the time being though, nothing huge. And the 2013 rollercoaster... Well that'll remain a mystery until so, bring on SW7!

 

[Sharpy_2010]

I'm actually looking forward to what Towers has. It will be a big battle against Thorpe, as they are getting 5 flats, 2 over 30m and 2 coasters, 1 at 160ft approx. and 1 at 140ft approx.

 

[bob_3_]

Alton and Thorpe aren't really in competition, they're owned by the same company =/. Yes there might be a little mild rivalry but I'd hardly call it a "battle". A mindless fan-boy internet battle..maybe.

Alton will never try to better Thorpe, and vice versa. They both also have very different target audiences.







As for SW7, I'd probably look towards prototype ride concepts, and new trends appearing to get an idea of what the Alton team may be looking at. They've got a lot as it is, they'll be lapping up any new ideas. IMHO I have NO idea where they could go with this ride..or where the possible site location could be!

As big as the park is, I think it's rather cramped atm. If you think they can't really remove large areas of trees, or touch anything near the gardens...There is no space really. Unless a car park is willing to be sacrificed.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

However, now with Dark Forest in the park, I for one am getting bored of this dark depressive conisistancy of themed areas (Forbidden Valley, X-Sector, Gloomy Wood etc.), it's getting a habit of the park to keep this gothic style of theming going around.

Well they do have a massive gothic styled building in the middle so why not? :lol:

Flume will probs recieve an upgrade come the end of the Imperial contract... At least I hope so...

 

[Kebab]

However, now with Dark Forest in the park, I for one am getting bored of this dark depressive conisistancy of themed areas (Forbidden Valley, X-Sector, Gloomy Wood etc.), it's getting a habit of the park to keep this gothic style of theming going around.

Well they do have a massive gothic styled building in the middle so why not? :lol:

Flume will probs recieve an upgrade come the end of the Imperial contract... At least I hope so...

Good point actually I think to some extent they need to vary theming a little, that's why I miss Ug Land when it was, it seperates the themes of the lands a bit more. It also had a somewhat better atmosphere with all the Thunder Rock Rally music and that going on, now it just seems a bit bland being Dark Forest.

I mean, if they're still heading in the family audience direction, it would be nice to have another family-style themed area, and I'm really liking the western style idea.

 

[SaiyanHajime]

I think people criticize Alton's themes for the wrong reasons.

I don't think they use what they already have enough and that the whole park would be better if it was a fairly consistent theme based on what's already there - the castle and grounds.

Having an overarching theme is makes it easier to place themes and ensures that everyone "gets it".

 

[nemesisamazing]

Wat the heck are they gonna think of this time!!!!

 

[Gavin]

^Including an "h" somewhere? Perhaps a question mark if and when necessary? Who knows?!

 

[OfficialAltonTowers]

^Lol nice Punctuation lesson, I do hope the do a Good old Woodie, that would be fun, or even a hyper coaster like Bizarro.

Oh but i forgot about the alton worlds first element, i can see it being the worlds first inverted diving Machine with a twist of a tilt coaster from RTC 3 or something rediculous like that.

Anyway i dont realy care, all that matters is that im there first to ride it. :--D :--D :--D :--D