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Alton Towers, past, present & future, including SW7

nadroJ said:
The fact that the Dutch built Troy at Toverland should be proof enough that woodies are safe and family friendly? Even big intimidating ones. I'd love to actually see this survey, am I the only one who thinks it doesn't actually exist and was just used to pass off any questions regarding said woodie?
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Yes, but how many bog standard British families going to Alton Towers for a day out know about Troy, or even Toverland itself?

Of course they're safe, its just the public perception, and I totally see Alton are coming from. I think this is just a case of the ignorant enthusiast losing to the public perception of something.

Why build a woodie to please about 2% of their visitors, and make near enough the other 98% wondering if its safe, what a waste of money.
 
Tbh the people that worry about the 'safety' of a rollercoaster in the UK are the type of morons that won't be too interested in going to a theme park in general.
 
Because it's clearly not going to isolate 98% of the public. You don't turn up at Heide and hear 98% of people go "**** that, we'll go ride that inverted steel one, it's safer" or turn up at Toverland and hear "that will kill me. To the bike-shaped one!". Woodies are popular, and people aren't stupid, Merlin are just fobbing us off with excuses on this one.

Has anyone here REALLY ever been to a park with a non-enthusiast who has refused to ride a Wooden coaster because it might kill them? Even the Blackpool ones are still some of the most popular rides in the park!
 
I know it won't isolate 98% of the public, it'll be a very small perecentage of that... but I just think enthusiasts need to get off their high horse here and realise parks weren't built just for them...

I hope SW7 is steel and is the most ****ing awesome coaster in the entire world and that good that people would actually feel the urge to crack their pants down and jizz over it while queueing for it, then Alton can say (after removing people for public indecency)... "This is awesome isn't it? You can stick your ****ing woodie up your arse!"
 
Alton are running out of options as to what to build. I can't think of anything on the market except a Disk-O coaster that would suit it. But there's already 2 of them in the UK.
 
I think a Wooden coaster would actually have the complete opposite effect, as the reason Blackpool's are so popular relies on their charm factor, playing on the nostalgiac feel that people have about them. Although building a new ride wouldn't share this, it would play on a clear link that would appeal to an awful lot of people.

Plus, hasn't the WHOLE marketing for Thirteen been based around making the rider feel "unsafe" and "Vunerable" etc....?
 
Smithy said:
Plus, hasn't the WHOLE marketing for Thirteen been based around making the rider feel "unsafe" and "Vunerable" etc....?
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Yep. And Oblivion tells you you WILL die.
 
Tbh I dont care if its wood or steel and I can see where Pierre is coming from. As long as its good and ticks all the boxes I do not mind. I have not been on that many anyway, and the ones I have been on have been so hit and miss.

Thinking about it Collosus was already at Heide before Merlin took over, they probably would not have built that.

I still think its down to cost and maintance more than the public thinking they are un safe. The problem is in the UK unless you go to Blackpool where in England are you going to ride a wooden coaster? So I do not really see how people can judge this?

Plus if Wooden coasters are so un safe why are so many people behind rebuilding one at Margate, and there are just members of the public behind that not just enthusiasts.

If they built a woodie people would still ride it. I remember so many people including friends not riding Nemesis and Thunder Looper as they inverted, yet would ride the Black Hole as that never. When we went to Blackpool they would ride everything apart from the looping one.

I think they would find more people are scared of inverting and launching than riding a woodie.
 
I don't know if public perception of coasters has shifted though?

We've had one new wooden coaster built in the UK in what? 50 years? Yet we had a load of them.

Unlike Germany and Sweden, we had a lot more old wood. So they were always classed as "something common and old".

Now, you're right Marc, in the past people have been terrified of steel loopers and the like, but people are used to them now and expect that same kind of Nemesis/Stealth/PMBO hit/buzz/height from all their coasters. They go to Florida and see bigger and better steel and it makes them brave for our steel.

I did notice in the SFGAdv that El Toro didn't seem as popular as the older steel coasters there. It's clearly the best ride in the park, but its popularity isn't as high. this could still be attributed to a similar thing over here - wooden coasters are old hat, and old tech, and "old and unthrilling and possibly dangerous".

As a "marketing sell", it's difficult. I have to wonder how many people visit Oakwood and think Megafobia has been there for 60 years? "Come to Alton and ride the same kind of ride you have been riding all your life... Only ours is much better, honest... Go on, you know you want to go on it really - Troy is dead good, go to Toverland and try it and see first!!!!" Not the best marketing slogan ever.

As for Margate, it's being sold on exactly that. "We're an old park, with old rides, like the ones you used to love before Alton Towers came along..." It works for them and has support. Alton couldn't then go "We're just the same as Margate!!!". ;)

So, I can kind of see where they're coming from. The UK had a large number of very good wooden coasters. People know them, but they've moved on. Reputation could sell a new wooden coaster, but it has to be built first and proven. It has to have a "wow" factor for that. It needs to say "The Grand National? A merry go round compared to the thrills you will have on me!".

I'm going for B&M prototype (railgun) launch across the valley with 4D seating anyway :)
 
I can see your point there Furie, never looked at it that way before.

As I said before I just find woodies to much of a hit and miss. Balder out of 10 rides I had 2 good ones. Megafobia was good at the end of the day. Collosus was good straight away, but I have to agree with a comment Ian made at the time and that was it done nothing a steel coaster could not do. For me though seeing that wood instead of steel made it more of a thrill.

Them saying it will have a 1.4 limit does make it sound like it will be for thrill seekers more which is good.
 
It would hugely depend on the ride, and if it contained any sort of element that made it uniquely attractive to link the publics old opinions with the new ride by making them think it was something completely new.
 
It would hugely depend on the ride, and if it contained any sort of element that made it uniquely attractive to link the publics old opinions with the new ride by making them think it was something completely new.
 
marc said:
Thinking about it Collosus was already at Heide before Merlin took over, they probably would not have built that.
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Tussauds did though... And considering the majority of the park management is still in place at the parks Merlin's bigwigs should be able to realise how Colossos does...


Yeah, it really is a doubled-edged sword, it is obvious that in the coaster world wooden coasters are still popular since they're still getting built, but the GP here are thick and wouldn't know a good coaster even if it hit them on the head... :lol:
 
Nemesis Inferno said:
...but the GP here are thick and wouldn't know a good coaster even if it hit them on the head...
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Which is what would happen according to the survey... :roll:
 
^Considering your thing about emoticons, funny you'd ignore the fact I used one at the end of that comment to show that I wasn't saying it particularly seriously... :roll:
 
People expect the latest technology in Alton.


They don't tend to build rides unless they're a worlds first, or close to it. Every one of their coasters was a new model when built.

Building a woodie would be great yeah! But it's not fitting with the line-up and not what people (the GP) would expect from the park, and I don't think it would turn out near as popular as Air, or even Thirteen (yes it's nto a fab ride, but it's been drawing in the crowds this year).

Unless it's a woodie that does something different, I don't think Alton will bother. The 200ft drop into the valley would've been a great selling point, but it's just not going to happen.
 
Pierre said:
nadroJ said:
The fact that the Dutch built Troy at Toverland should be proof enough that woodies are safe and family friendly? Even big intimidating ones. I'd love to actually see this survey, am I the only one who thinks it doesn't actually exist and was just used to pass off any questions regarding said woodie?
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Yes, but how many bog standard British families going to Alton Towers for a day out know about Troy, or even Toverland itself?
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What I meant was if you've been to Toverland and seen how popular Troy is with entire families, from kids barely tall enough to ride to older family members, you'll see how popular woodies are with the family market.

I didn't mean the British public would realise this, I meant the bastards at Alton Towers would!
 
But Toverland's clientèle is different from Alton Towers'. Every country has different attitudes to a lot of things.

John Wardley wants a woodie, that crazy PR woman wants a woodie, they're not going to go out of their way to lie about why it can't happen. The big cheeses at Merlin (above those two) have gone out and done research on whether putting money into a big wooden roller coaster will boost numbers in the park. And their apparent conclusion with the AT goers is... it won't.


Until someone on here goes out and does the same surveys and research on the general public who go to alton towers and proves that what these big cheeses are saying is wrong, I don't think they can comment on the legitimacy of the statements made.
 
I think the keyword in all of these comments about Wooden coasters is *Big*... I don't know what you guys think but I always feel attractions at Alton Towers always feel too small :?

It's as if the 'world first' factor puts the park on the map, I don't know if to put it down to a space or cost issue but I always feel left wanting more? Somehow I find it acceptable to compare them to other rides because they were the first.

Still yet to ride thirteen but you know somebody's gonna come along later with something better... look at air, 'twas awesome until you experience the Pretzel loop :lol:

Also, how easy would it be to maintain a wooden coaster in the UK bearing in mind the weather? I'm guessing it'd be pretty high maintenance and would the honcho's at the top be willing to take that kinda hit on revenues?
 
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