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Alton Towers Latest Rumours/confirmations

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I like the station plan.

I've always wanted them to utalise more of the themes they already have in the damned park/locality. I think that would be fantastic, regardless of the outcomes, and further contribute to how wonderfully unique Alton is. Bits of castle ruins are scattered through Alton's grounds, and they have at their disposal a fair share of local legends and ghost stories.

I'm not expecting it to look like a real bit of the castle ruins (it's upsetting that I don't expect that, but I just don't expect that level of effort), but I am delighted they are drawing off what's already there with a spooky forest theme (by the looks of it anyway), because ...well, most of Alton is a spooky forest. Now I just hope that it's at least styled the same as the real castle.
 
^Explain further, giving details enough for UC to completely kick your arse over that comment... :roll:

If we can run the hydraulics, why not LIMs or LSMs, which are arguably cheaper as all they are are magnets?
 
See this points more to Vekoma if its Switchback's, as they are the world leaders in making them (i.e. Expedition Everest)
 
Nemesis Inferno said:
^Explain further, giving details enough for UC to completely kick your arse over that comment... :roll:

If we can run the hydraulics, why not LIMs or LSMs, which are arguably cheaper as all they are are magnets?
Click to expand...

Electro magnets - they need power to run through them. Unless the train is maglev, it requires quite a large amount of electricity to produce a launch. It's not a particularly efficient method of accelerating things... To be fair, electricity costs aren't that much higher here than the States though...
 
I'm intrigued by the developments of SW6, tho I gotta say I would have preferred a new concept from B&M. It will be interesting to see what the worlds first IS exactly. The castle/towers facade is pretty cool in theory, but I bet it's not exactly convincing as being an actual stone construction... It would be cool if it actually was a stone construction!

Hmmmm, Intamin, a Vekoma in the style of EE ...I'd take either...
I think the section of the coaster that runs through the Forrest could be spectacular...
We'll see.

What's the verdict on Ug Land in 09?-
Is it going to be closed or not?
 
They wont want people seeing it, and if it is rethemed, access won't be possible because Ug Land is small and it will be turned into a building site, there will be no roon at all, so I say closed after around July.
 
I doubt Alton will want Rita closed for August...

For most of the season they will most likely keep Ug Land open so Rita can then be kept open as well... If there's going to be a massive re-theme (which I hope will occur), then they will try and keep Rita open as much as is possible, hence I can't see them doing that until after the busiest time of the year...
 
Hmmm... Vekoma, launch with swtichbacks, that would class as a worlds first, and the only Vekoma launches I can think of are MotoCoasters.
 
Vekoma have other launches: Rock n Roller Coaster and its outdoor clone Xpress are two.

I don't understand where this layout has a launch. Is that not just a normal lift hill?
 
Did they not keep Corkscrew open for most of the time while Rita was being built with a temp access path too it, or did I dream that up?

Ash
 
Blaze said:
They wont want people seeing it, and if it is rethemed, access won't be possible because Ug Land is small and it will be turned into a building site, there will be no roon at all, so I say closed after around July.
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If you look at where the new coaster is, it's going to be extending back into the woods from the old corkscrew site, so they should be able to just close off the back end of Ug Land, behind Rita where Corkscrew's queue used to be. I seem to remember an access route over by Ug Swinger, so that shouldn't be a problem.

I suspect they'll do most of the construction behind fences during the 2009 season. There's no reason to keep it secret - the general public will no doubt see the track go up and be intrigued (if non the wiser), whilst us enthusiasts have already seen the planning application and so have a pretty good idea what to expect.

As for the re-theme? If there is one, that can quite easily be done during the off season, so there's no need to shut down Ug Land during the season.
 
This might sound pretty hilarious/stupid... but what if the the 'inside' part featured a room where the track spun around with the coaster on it? (obviously lowering/tilting at some point also)
 
Jools said:
Hmmm... Vekoma, launch with swtichbacks, that would class as a worlds first, and the only Vekoma launches I can think of are MotoCoasters.
Click to expand...

and Space Mountain, Rock n Roller Coaster, Superman, and quite a few others.
 
UC said:
furie said:
Nemesis Inferno said:
^Explain further, giving details enough for UC to completely kick your arse over that comment... :roll:

If we can run the hydraulics, why not LIMs or LSMs, which are arguably cheaper as all they are are magnets?
Click to expand...

Electro magnets - they need power to run through them. Unless the train is maglev, it requires quite a large amount of electricity to produce a launch. It's not a particularly efficient method of accelerating things... To be fair, electricity costs aren't that much higher here than the States though...
Click to expand...

Actually, Furie, he's right.

LIMs and Hydraulic launches use almost the same amount of power. The difference between them is how the power is used.

Hydraulic launches use up power over a long period of time - the cable must be pulled into position, the system prepped for launch (which requires a significant amount of power for the pumps and valves), and then when the train is actually launched, the entire process repeats.

So while it's less power used for the launch itself, it's more power drawn over a period of time.

LIMs use up an extraordinary amount of power during the launch, but then remain dormant when the train is loading or unloading - so while you need a lot of juice to launch the train, you're not using any in between those 3-5 seconds of the actual launch.

Think of it as the lottery - lump sum vs. annual payments (minus taxes, of course :p).

In short - it's very possible for Alton to use either system.
Click to expand...


This is true.

But, at best, LIMs especially are far less efficient than hydraulic launches, mainly because a load of the flux is being wasted on thin air rather than in launch fins etc.

This is why in europe, launch coasters were uncommon until hydraulic launches- because of the cost of and ability to waste power.


Also, to enable the use of LIMs, Alton would have to build a power substation to deal with the increased short term demand which, as far as I know, there has been no planning application for, and thus LIMs are unlikely.
 
Also if the proposed launch is where i think it is, i can't imagine it been a massive launch. As its backwards, and just needs to make it up a helix? Therefore i'd say that LIMS are far more likely than a hydraulic launch system.
 
Plus there are other factors to involve such as space. LSMs are becoming more popular because they take up less space than a huge hydraulic tank with tubes and a main motor being reeled up for the cable. LSMs however only need a power supply and they are on their way. Then there is the reliability factor, LSMs can send things around a track with the same amoount of reliability if they are going small speeds or high speeds. Hydraulics however are under much more strain as there is more fluid at higher pressures being used the higher the speeds. These are the more important things, as efficiency is nearly the same.
 
UC said:
But, at best, LIMs especially are far less efficient than hydraulic launches, mainly because a load of the flux is being wasted on thin air rather than in launch fins etc.
Click to expand...

Efficiency matters little if you're spending the same amount of money on the launch either way.

All that statement says is that LIMs would be the better choice if there was a way to make them more efficient - but as they stand, their cost is approximately the same.

This is why in europe, launch coasters were uncommon until hydraulic launches- because of the cost of and ability to waste power.
Click to expand...

I don't really buy that.

Again, the cost isn't much different at all. Regardless of the efficency of the LIMs, the bottom line is that they cost about the same to run as Hydraulic launches - the power consumption is the same, even if LIMs are only ___% efficient.
Click to expand...

The power consumption is not the same. That's the point I'm trying to make.

I know you're an engineer, so I'm not trying to sound patronising or anything before I explain this.

Efficiency= useful work/what you pay for

With a hydraulic launch, almost all the power used to compress the fluid etc. is eventually converted to kinetic energy.

With LIMs, there is a substantial loss of energy in effects such as loss of flux (flux requires energy to have any effect), eddy currents (consume energy) and some other resistances.

The train requires a specific amount of kinetic energy (or potential if an LSM LIM lift hill).

Thus the 'useful work' in efficiency is the desired gain in kinetic/potential energy.

However, the park pays for this useful work AND the electrial, friction and flux/eddy current losses.

These are substantially higher for LIM systems where it is notoriously difficult to efficiently finely focus a magnetic field to just do the work you require.

Thus the efficiency of LIMs is substantially lower than that of a hydraulic launch employed to do the same job and thus the park pays for more energy with a LIM.

That makes sense to me.



If however, you are saying that a hydraulic launch uses the same energy as a set of LIMs (that I severly doubt) and you have power consumption data for the two systems, then I'll be happy to step down...

But, I'm pretty sure it's the efficiency of LIMs (and thus the greater power consumption) that prevent us seeing them in the UK at least... especially when moving large trains.


I'm pretty sure my science is correct to the extent I explain it- I've just finished my electromagnetics module in my engineering degree.
 
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