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32 hurt in Big Dipper Crash

furie

SBOPD
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Bicko said:
Did the ride operators know the other train had got stuck? No.

If they had camera's installed on the ride to see where the train was stuck and why it hadnt returned, would they have continued to send another train, knowing it would cause an accident? No they had no idea, they sent the train clearly thinking a collison wasnt going to happen.
You're still missing the point. As Ian says, the CCTV will NOT stop another accident from happening. This shouldn't be "advertised" as a mechanism for stopping future accidents.

The ops didn't notice the train hadn't returned and continued to send out a second train. CCTV will only help if they go "I'd best check the CCTV to see if the train is stuck". From a system point of view, it's waiting for something to go wrong before you can make a decision to action the problem.

The only safe system is the one which eliminates the chance of a problem all together. CCTV does not do this. Safe dispatching does (and doesn't cost anything time wise).

I've read that there's to be a new system in place and that's fine - that is the correct solution. I'm really just being pedantic. CCTV seems to be "the saviour" when in reality it does nothing to increase safety (though it would certainly help if a train gets stuck again in asking for help).

If it opens with CCTV and they are still dispatching two cars at once (one on the track, the other out of the station) - then I would recommend to everyone NOT to go on the ride, it is simply an unsafe procedure.
 

Scott88

Member
I see your point Furie, I am not missing it.

All I am saying is that CCTV will help in events like this, rather than having nothing. I accept that I wrongly worded it by saying it wont happen again, because who knows what could happen? But it may help in the future, as the staff wouldnt be totally clueless to where the trains are, and if you read my previous post, I quoted something from a PB engineer who stated a new block system has been put in to stop a train on the lift hill, if the other train hasnt gone through a sensor by a certain time/point.
 

Ian

From CoasterForce
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I can't be bothered to keep posting about CCTV so I will end my feelings towards the CCTV with this.

Adding CCTV now is nothing more than a gesture, or a even a gimmick, to resasure the public that they are in safe hands.

Ultimately, people want to feel safe on the ride. CCTV will reassure some people that measures have been taken but it's only as effective as the operator who uses it.

Besides, once it's open and running again, I wont give a **** about it having CCTV or not. I'll ride it regardless. Big Dipper has operated safely without a major incident for 85 years; an awesome safety record. Oakwood learnt the lesson the hard way with Hydro, hopefully Blackpool will do the same.
 

Scott88

Member
One crash since 1923, that says to me the ride is not unsafe as you put it Furie.

I understand your concerns, but saying it will be unsafe after its re-opened is unfair.

They wouldnt be allowed to re-open it if it was unsafe.
 

marc

Well-Known Member
From what I read Furie is not saying the coaster is unsafe, he is saying the procedure is unsafe. Same as me really.

I do think when it re opens you will never see 2 trains on the circuit at the same time, just a feeling.

But I am really happy they have not had to trim it or do anything else that would ruin a classic.
 

furie

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If they have sensors to allow for automated blocking, then it's safe.

They have obviously failed to train the ride ops on safe procedures for running the ride. It's a human error that caused the crash, due to either inattentive staff, or poorly trained staff.

Unless a safeguard has been put in place (ie the sensors that stop the lift hill), then the ride is no safer now than it was on the day of the accident. There was a malfunction in the track which is an unfortunate, and unforeseen issue which does not make the ride any more unsafe than any other ride. However, the resulting crash of two trains could have easily been avoided and it's this issue that needs addressing and if it isn't, then the ride must be deemed unsafe.

So, as long as they put the procedures in place, it's not a problem :) I honestly can't see H&S allowing it to reopen without correct blocking processes in place, so I think it's a non-issue.
 

AeRo

Member
Agreed.

Any Risk Assesment will look to minimise ANY risk. In this case, it was a double header, in that the track developed a fault, plus the human error. Installation of CCTV was a no brainer, but is only an aid to the operator, it won't eliminate human error, and therefore won't be the solution sought by HSE.

I don't think that the HSE report has been published yet, but you can bet there will be a lot of "I told you so" comments coming from every Coaster forum, bar one.
 

Martyn B

Well-Known Member
^ And what that one be? ;)

The thing, CCTV isn't even needed, whats wrong with just waiting until the train 1 is on the home straight before dispatching train 2? If train 1 somehow doesn't make it back to the station, there's still plent of time to shut down the power before train 2 has left the lift.

So where are these pics of the new look dipper?

Edit: Ok, so I've seen the pics now. It just looks like they've used this oportunity to carry out their winter changes on the Dipper? Its just a few splash's on paint here and there.

Whats going to be different about the trains? Paint get spilt on them too? Also I couldn't find anything about The Whip??
 

furie

SBOPD
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The Whip? Not sure what it has to do with this, but it's been in Margate for six months!
 

Martyn B

Well-Known Member
It was mentioned on another page that some developements have been taking place regarding the area where the Whip was? Or something like that.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Had the chance to speak someone very high up the food chain at BPPB at the weekend.

Seems it was human error, wouldnt say anymore than that really, but did reiterate that if you have one in the station and one on the track you can never ever go wrong....in theory!
 

Karen

Member
The amount of times I have been on a the Big Dipper and the other train has crossed over the other at the start/end on the ride. Many shouts of "CAOSTERFORCE" at the other CFer's, i.e. both trains not in the station.
 

marc

Well-Known Member
Nacnud said:
Had the chance to speak someone very high up the food chain at BPPB at the weekend.

Seems it was human error, wouldnt say anymore than that really, but did reiterate that if you have one in the station and one on the track you can never ever go wrong....in theory!
See this is where I simply do not agree.

Yes it was human error that the train was let go, but it was not human error that the 1st train got stuck. It just seems like everyone is missing the most important part of the accident. Had the train not got stuck the accident would not have happened in the 1st place.

For me I want to know what caused the train to get stuck and bugger all has been said about it.

End of rant.
 

Martyn B

Well-Known Member
I guess it was something to do with the track as alot of it has been re-tracked on that area of the ride.

And if it was the track, the second train probably didn't hit the first one at full speed, because whatever caused the first train to slow down and stop, would have caused the second one to slow down too.
 

marc

Well-Known Member
Not really, as the 2nd train did not get to the part of the track that caused the 1st train to get stuck due to the 1st train still being stuck on it :)
 
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