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What the original Epcot a big deal at the time?

Waffleman

Waffleman

Mega Poster
I was just thinking about the original ideas for Epcot and I wondered if when Walt released the plans and spoke about the original Epcot it was a really big moment, which a lot of people were aware of and talking about, or was it not that well thought of?
 
^It's the only way most Americans get to experience foreign travel, so I'd imagine it was pretty well received.
 
Epcot was a MASSIVE deal, it was a BIG new park at the time.

It's Disney, the fact you had to question if it was "Not that well thought out" is a ridiculous statement/question. Alright, sometimes Disney do add attractions that don't seem that well thought out, but when you come to terms with how much work the Imagineers have actually done and the process in which the park/attraction took, you realise that everything is well thought out.

The best thing you can do is do research into Disney's Imagineering. There's books and such on this, it's pointless asking on forums and such as you're always going to get opposing values and opinions. Yes, it will be like Propaganda by reading an Imagineering book and very bias, but you'll get more information from that.
 
EPCOT was world known back then and still is to this day. EPCOT was the first time Disney ever built 2 parks in one property and it was well ahead of its time and still is today.
 
XYZ said:
EPCOT was world known back then and still is to this day. EPCOT was the first time Disney ever built 2 parks in one property and it was well ahead of its time and still is today.
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Sorry, but this is where we part opinions, I agree that at the time, it was ahead of it's time, by a few years, but, not anymore, I don't think it's dated, but yeah, it's far from ahead of it's time.
 
It's things like this that make Walt Disney creep me the hell out. In the confines of a theme park all this futuristic crap is good for a gimmick and a good day out or experience, but to purpose build it to live in, a purpose built utopia, sounds rathe dystopian to me. It's all too 1984.

I just have images of Celebration but in futuristic city form. Like the cities in AI or something. It's all too weird.
 
I know that when the plans for EPCOT Centre were released the press were not happy, asking Disney questions like "Where's the big dome?" and "Where's everybody going to live?" so there was obviously talk around the country about the original plans for EPCOT, and the plans Disney released for EPCOT Centre, along with the conflicts between the two.

Apparently Disney tried to say they were creating Walt's Vision, and EPCOT Centre was just the start so they could get revenue in to help them fund the rest of the project which, as UC said, was such an absurd, hyperbolised vision that, I believe, only Walt could've seen it through the way he wanted really.

Then, as we know, nothing more materialised. Not sure if it had something to do with Eisner coming in and realising the potential for revenue through more parks and waterparks instead of building a 'city'.

Read "Realityland". It's all in there.
 
Somewhat OT, but if anyones interested in the rather shady way that Disney control central Florida, this book is an interesting read...

"Team Rodent : How Disney Devours the World" by Carl Hiaasen*

http://www.carlhiaasen.com/books/books-team.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Rodent

(* - who is otherwise a well-known Miami investigative journalist and somewhat comedic/satirical-crime novelist - check out "Tourist Season" which has a subplot involving shady peoples trying to set up a theme park in southern Florida)

--

EDIT : and even more OT, here are some construction pics of Epcot (yes I know we are talking about the city rather than the park, but the pics are nice) http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/ ... e-air.html
 
OK "shady" was just meant to imply "not really what everyone expects from a nice fluffy family friendly company, rather more from some all-consuming mega-company, and we tend to keep it rather quiet lest we tarnish that lovely friendly family image" rather than anything illegal. :)

I don't really have any problem with what Disney do, but I look at it in the context of a mega-company with a rather different public persona than their actual business practices.

"DisneyWar" by James B Stewart is another good read behind the scenes.
 
The idea of a futuristic city was the only thing that I've ever liked about Disney parks.
But of course it was scrapped :(
I adore Walt Disney, he was such a great man, but the people who are in charge now are simply said, money hunters
 
Yes to all UC has said. Many of Disney's ideas were far too progressive for his time (and perhaps any time in the foreseeable future). His general plan for EPCOT was idealistic, utopian, and way too large-scale further showing Walt's propensity for overly extravagant thinking. Only a fragment of that still exists at Disney, but I think his ability to inspire future generations was his greatest contribution to society (and the company).

On a side note, it's kinda funny to think about EPCOT as Walt saw it...mostly because it seems very indicative of the time period he lived in, when space travel was relatively new and it seemed anything could be accomplished. Lots of people were coming up with crazy "futuristic" ideas then, many of which failed, which begs the question: Is is better that EPCOT never came to full fruition? I believe it is.
 
^Yes, I agree about WDI and I think that is sort of what I was trying to say with the "inspire future generations" bit. In fact, I believe it is one of Disney's biggest assets that puts it in a whole different league compared to its competitors.

In reference to what I believe Disney would have become if the community of the future had been completed, I honestly think it the project would have crashed and burned along with all the other similar ideas of the time. I think it would have simply been one of those things that historians would look back on and say "it was an daring move that didn't quite pay off". That said, I don't believe it would have taken the company in a completely new direction although I do believe that if Disney had lived longer the company's vision would have changed (as you noted he was never one to dwell on a single concept). I think, in terms of EPCOT, he would have taken it in stride and moved on to the next thing.

I think in general the direction Disney has advanced "post-Disney" has been quite fruitful for them and, while I can't stress enough that his death was unfortunate, I do believe it was somewhat timely in that WDW was able to open barring further setbacks that EPCOT no doubt would have incurred. The impact that Disney has made on the amusement park industry is incomparable and for that I am grateful.

My side note this time, EPCOT turned out to be a bit of a flop as it was. Although it would have been much different had Walt overseen its full creation, I still see it as being a flop. I can't speak for others, but I can say that I have always felt that EPCOT (as it stands) is missing something...something innately Disney. I can't quite put a finger on it, but it probably has something to do with its lack of "creative spark," at least as I see it.
 
UC said:
Think about it - name another park in the world that even comes close to what Epcot actually offers.
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Futuroscope.

I agree with what you're saying, just wanted to spite =]

I LOVE the crazy retro-ness of EPCOT. And I love that even though they try really hard to keep it updated and modern, it still feels behind the times. It's always kind of creeped me out, but in a good way.
 
I went too Futurescope with my physics class in school years ago (we we supposed to be going to Cern but it broke). It's a very odd place. Sudo-educational and a bit dull but the 3d was novel in its day. The laser show was good too
 
Futuroscope is meant to be like, all about the future and education and things, as is Future World at EPCOT, so it arguable has come close to what EPCOT does. It's pretty cool. Also, to answer your question about something that has come close to EPCOT one could argue the Millennium Dome. For me it has the same kind of goals as EPCOT, although obviously on a much, much smaller scale (they had 'pavilions of sorts, The Body, The Mind, etc).
 
@UC: Sorry, meant to respond sooner, but I have had one heck of a week at school. If EPCOT would have been fully completed to Disney's standards, yes, I agree it may very well have bankrupted the company (except in the unlikely case of it being a huge success). I would hope that Walt would see it was failing and let it die out, although it is possible he would have run the company into the ground trying to achieve his idea. It would probably have been his greatest endeavor had he been around long enough for them to go through with it.

As for my comments about what EPCOT actually came to be, true, I was mostly making personal reference to what I thought of it (and to be fair it was a long time ago I visited and it probably would be more interesting to me now than then). I see what you are saying about it being unique and not ride-based. Perhaps what I should have said is that EPCOT doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of Disney World. It certainly feels dated (although that's not necessarily un-Disney) and it lacked the energy I am used to feeling at other Disney parks. It is very much more exploring and learning than having everything feel as if it's happening to you. Immersive visually, yes, bursting at the seems with life, I thought not. May have just been the time I was there...or perhaps the fact that I was a kid who wanted crazy mascots running around and the hustle and bustle that I felt elsewhere. I didn't dislike it, don't get me wrong, it is just very different; and that may make it even more "Disney" than other parks.

And I think the "6th most visited park" is a somewhat skewed statistic as I feel that most people who go to Disney World explore all of the parks at least a bit. May not be totally true but you've got to admit that many of those "visits" were a direct result of the park being a part of the greater complex of the Walt Disney World Resort.
 
The thing with Disney is, as you can see with the originally proposed EPCOT, it was originally meant to become so much more than 'just' a theme park attraction. Walt thought big, and yes some of his ideologies do remain at the heart of the company, his incredibly innovative, original and sometimes seemingly insane thinking died with him. And then 'logical' thinking and business plans took over, and Disney stuck with the 'safe' route of doing things, in order to prosper financially. I'm not disregarding the fact that many of the attractions we see coming out of Disney parks and saying they aren't fantastic, because many of them are, but they're very restricted and keep within the confines of 'theme park attraction' and that is all.

EPCOT (the one we have now) may seem un-Disney because it doesn't really base itself on the well known characters (not as much, anyway) but I feel EPCOT really embodies the Walt way of thinking. Of exploring the world, educating ourselves, looking into the future and not being scared to be adventurous, outrageous and innovative in our own thinking. EPCOT gives us a chance to (superficially, and within the confines of a theme park attraction, of course) explore something we may never have had the chance to before or simply that had never crossed our minds before. I think the place is really inspirational. And you are right when you say it doesn't feel like stuff is happening to you, EPCOT is about finding things out for yourself and taking fun from discovery and learning and being astounded by the planet and the universe. I think it's breathtaking some of the crap they come up with XD
 
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