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What the heck happened to the UK coaster scene?

Catmaydo

Roller Poster
- Odyssey at Fantasy Island was the third fastest and second tallest coaster in the UK when it opened in 2002. Three years earlier, it had also built a custom Vekoma with fairly impressive stats: 46 m tall and a speed of 100 km/h. Odyssey and Millennium are still the third and fourth tallest coasters in the UK, and Odyssey remains the second-tallest full-circuit Inverted coaster built to date. Between the two, a Reverchon Spinner clone was opened in 2000. The only coaster addition to the park since Odyssey is an identical, semi-permanent replacement for the Spinner, which was dismantled and sent to Margate in 2015.

Fantasy Island is a bit of a weird one; I remember the previous owner making all sorts of wild proclamations about what they were going to build, but ultimately those fever dreams never came to fruition because reality...or something. Back in the early noughties it seemed like there was some money for big investments that came from god knows where, but not necessarily a plan to sustain it in the long term. Check out this newspaper article (source: http://www.islandquest.co.uk) about one of their totally sensible idea to build a floating theme park. It's almost like Michael O'Leary from Ryanair was on their innovations team.
vengeance_article.jpg

The original "plan" for Odyssey was that it was going to be 100ft taller than it currently stands; however, I think that application was rejected by the local council and residents. I can't remember if it was the current or previous owners that did the damage to their reputation, but they didn't/don't exactly have a sterling relationship with the locals. Also, considering how things panned out when Odyssey was testing (train stalling), and eventually opened (lowering the height of the cobra roll and horsehoe turn so trains could reliably complete the course), it's probably a saving grace that it didn't get built with its original 265ft drop because it could have run into more trouble with high winds in the area. Here's a fun clip of a rollback and another one of an awkward looking stall. Reading the forums back when all this was going on was a real chuckle because it was all just so farcical, but it really didn't do any favours for Vekoma's reputation at the time.

It's well worth digging around on the internet for information about the history of the place. It's almost like it shouldn't be able exist in this country given how tight planning restrictions can be here, and how much general resistance there is all over the country by local residents to new theme park developments, but somewhow Fantasy Island got lucky.
 

furie

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Tied in with Merlin, blame families. They're the only ones spending money now, so parks have pursued child-friendly licences such as Thomas, Peppa Pig, CBBC, Nickelodeon, Lego, Peter Pan, etc rather than invest in more 'grown-up' attractions. Even Thorpe Park suddenly went for that market with Angry Birds. I'd like to think it's changing but Wicker-Man and Icon are still "family friendly" rides, despite what some of the hype might say.
Interesting point, but it raises a further question: Was it ever different? Did families use to spend less money at amusement parks than thrill seekers? Or did the parks just cater to the wrong demographic during the coaster boom?

I wonder if it's less about "Families Vs Thrill Seekers" and more about perceived value for money.

If you're paying a lot of money for a day out (family or not), you want to get something back. Tussauds used to offer both a high quality park experience and regular new high quality rides.

There's no denying that the quality of both park and ride experience at all ex-Tussaud's parks has suffered since Merlin took over. However, they still have a veneer of quality and regular changes to line ups (let's ignore closed rides mind :p ). So people are still fooled into thinking they're getting a high quality park experience. You only need to visit mainland Europe to realise how badly you're being done to by Merlin (as a top tier operator).

So you have the smaller parks who were unable to compete with the massive investments Tussauds made. DMP and Paultons both went for sensible "high quality targeted" options. Both have done very well out of producing really high quality areas based on popular IPs. The fact that they're family oriented is simply economics. It's easier and more profitable to take somebody else's work and ride their tailcoat than to develop original branding and high quality rides.

Flamingoland and Fantasy Island both tried to go down the "ride churn" route. New ride experiences regularly to keep the crowds coming. Neither really had it right. It's also (I don't think) a coincidence that both chose Vekoma to champion their new ride installs.

The problem is simply that of ride experience quality. None of their installs during that early/mid 2000's are actually any good. JO suffered massively and needed to be redesigned - ride quality varies hugely along the train and it only runs 4 times a year. Kumali was never great, but now it's pretty awful.

The rides never really excelled and aged badly. Both parks also split their focus. FI was all about the market(which made it an awful place to visit) and FL also looks after the zoo (which is actually really good). So investment and concentration isn't where it should be. Then again, why should they if the investment never turns a real profit. Both parks are a little out of the way and not serviced by any major travel infrastructure. So I think their markets are always limited.

Oakwood was heading for the big time. They were really spurred off the back of the success of Megaphobia. It was always such a lovely little old-school park with a great coaster. Then somebody died, then people stopped going and the investment dried up. Bad sale to a group with no interest in theme parks and you have the mess they are now.

LWV is an interesting one. They have loads of room for expansion, but just never seemed to really try an monopolise on the success of The Ultimate. I don't know if maybe it was a one shot investment for them. They had the one chance to put all their money into one project and it would make of break them. It never quite broke them, but I don't think it made them.

Blackpool always struggled from the death of Amanda's father. The park was kept afloat by investment in him, not the park. It led to the destruction of Southport (which is still - 12 years later - on a temporary contract as Southport council think somebody is going to build a hotel there) and a forced period of paying back loans. Fair play to Amanda, she has brought Blackpool back into profit and proved that the park is a business worth investing in. Their problem now is as it has always been - space.

Long and short of it? It's all about the right investment and who has the money to invest. If LWV had followed up The Ultimate with a B&M Hyper or an Intamin Rocket, or a GCI wood? I reckon they could have kept on making inroads into the high quality visitor experience - to a degree. They also needed to invest in "theme infrastructure". Part of what makes the Merlin parks and Paultons so "visitable" is the immersion you get being at them. They're nice places to visit - with some good rides to keep you entertained.

If Flamingoland had bought a B&M floorless and a Gravity Group woody, they could have had people returning for those - getting the repeat footfall.

So it's really all about quality AND quantity. You need good stuff to make people want to revisit and new stuff to make them feel like they are getting a good return on their ticket investment WHEN they return in the new season. Those who have done this have flourished, the rest - it's led to a poor state of UK theme parks where Merlin can run rampant.
 

furie

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Also, should mention about the size of the UK and the history :D

Although it's not particularly quick to get from one end of the country to the other, there are still a huge number of (decently sized) parks for the distances to travel in the UK. LWV, FI and FL are all in roughly the same catchment area. AT and DMP accessible to the same people who can also hit up PBB, Thorpe Park and Chessington. Lots of competition for the same visitors.

Historically though, the UK park scene was coastal. Apart from Belle Vue in Manchester, I can't think of any large parks/coasters that weren't on the coast right up until the late 70's when Alton became a "theme park".

As the UK holiday industry collapsed in the 60's/70's, so did the parks. The deaths at Battersea park pretty much finished off the majority of parks still hanging in there. A mix of perception of old coasters being dangerous, and the fact that a lot of the rides were actually in such a poor state of repair that they were actually dangerous and were torn down. Investors saw no future in rides and attractions, so closed them down. Belle Vue could have been Manchester's answer to Liseberg, but it was sold off piecemeal for short term profits by a group that had no vision of what the future could bring (until they also decided to try and join in later on after the success of Alton and ultimately failed).

As the UK entered the 80's, it was the Alton model that investors followed. Converted old grounds (historical houses/gardens/zoos/etc.) that had had low footfall and huge upkeep, or relatively new visitor attractions like farms jumped on the "attraction bandwagon" and installed rides if they had the space.

So in a period of less than 15 years, you have a swathe of new parks rising from the ashes of the old coastal "funfair" scene. The desire was still there for the rides and attractions, but it had moved inland. 1994 was the perfect storm of all of this. Four parks at a level of maturity that meant they had the cash and outlook to invest. It never really started much of a war, but it did encourage others to invest later on - though by then the market was saturated.

So the history was never going to lead to a sustained growth of the market anyway. The foundations for the most part just weren't deep enough.
 

chainedbanana

Hyper Poster
Also we had a recession in 2008-ish - And i think we are still reeling from that! investors aren't investing, no one's really taking creative financial risks!

The other big issue in the UK is planning permission hurdles:- and I think people in the UK are more resistant and prone to complain about theme park development - whilst say in Europe, the GP seem to have a more positive attitude and emotional response/pride in their local theme parks!
 

furie

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Also we had a recession in 2008-ish - And i think we are still reeling from that! investors aren't investing, no one's really taking creative financial risks

I disagree. We've seen investment (DMP and Paultons as well as Merlin) - it's just been more focused than "build 'em big and they will come". Quality over quantity which has paid dividends.

The other big issue in the UK is planning permission hurdles:- and I think people in the UK are more resistant and prone to complain about theme park development - whilst say in Europe, the GP seem to have a more positive attitude and emotional response/pride in their local theme parks!

This has absolutely caused the downfall of several parks (or nails in coffins anyway). It does limit Paultons and DMP too. However, we've seen creative solutions to these issues. So I don't think it's a deciding factor - just where businesses aren't willing to think outside the box or to think long term as Tussauds did.
 

chainedbanana

Hyper Poster
I disagree. We've seen investment (DMP and Paultons as well as Merlin) - it's just been more focused than "build 'em big and they will come". Quality over quantity which has paid dividends.

Of course we have seen investments - but not to the scale or as risk taking as we have seen previously or in other places!

The best theme parks abroad such as Europa, Hansa, phantasialand and Efteling are family owed/run (or in Eftelings case Charity) - meaning they invest in quality and aren't as obsessed about profit margins - i.e. they like to make a profit - but it doesn't need to be a huge profit.... whilst merlin is ALL about the profit! - and that just reflects!
 

furie

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Blackpool, Paultons and Drayton have all made major investments since 2008 - probably their most major investments in 10 years - but all three were in the "family" area of things.

People using the recession as an excuse were doing just that. Since 2010, tourism (internal) has been the growing market sector - and smart investment like Thomas Land (and the Cartoon Network stuff to a degree), Pepper Pig World and Nickland have all benefited from these. That then allows things like Icon to be invested in.

Merlin are in their own little investing world, just going through the paces of what they need to do to make enough profit to keep shareholders happy.
 

Matt N

CF Legend
On a random note, it always makes me sad that the UK doesn't have a really significant, well-known inner city theme park, like Liseberg is in Sweden or Tivoli Gardens/Bakken are in Denmark, to an extent. Even somewhere like Jardin D'Acclamatation (I think that's how you spell it!) in Paris would work well in a British city. I reckon somewhere like London, Cardiff or York would really suit an inner city theme park like Liseberg or Tivoli Gardens. Imagine a ride like Helix, Balder or Dæmonen overlooking the River Thames or the River Ouse (I think that's the river in York, anyway.) Or maybe a modern take on the seaside park in Cardiff Bay or something? I don't know, I just really think that this style of amusement park looks really charming and would suit the UK nicely.
 

furie

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There used to be two.

Belle Vue in Manchester and a "ride area" in Battersea Park in London.

Belle Vue was sold to the Forte group in the late 60's/early 70's. They tore it down bit by bit and sold off the land. It also contained a zoo area and a speedway track. So there was room to expand. There are pictures in the old photos topic.

Battersea I seem to remember was meant to be temporary, but kept on going for years. The had the old Scenic Railway from Southport that crashed in the early 70s and killed some kids. The ride area was removed shortly afterwards.

Both had the potential of being the next Liseberg. With both gone, there's just nowhere in any cities really with the sheer space required.

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Matt N

CF Legend
There used to be two.

Belle Vue in Manchester and a "ride area" in Battersea Park in London.

Belle Vue was sold to the Forte group in the late 60's/early 70's. They tore it down bit by bit and sold off the land. It also contained a zoo area and a speedway track. So there was room to expand. There are pictures in the old photos topic.

Battersea I seem to remember was meant to be temporary, but kept on going for years. The had the old Scenic Railway from Southport that crashed in the early 70s and killed some kids. The ride area was removed shortly afterwards.

Both had the potential of being the next Liseberg. With both gone, there's just nowhere in any cities really with the sheer space required.

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Oh right, thanks @furie! If only they were still operating today, imagine the sorts of rides they might have!
 

furie

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Belle Vue had what was arguably at the time, one of the best wooden coasters in the world. They would have been good to still have about.

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Snoo

The Legend
Honestly, from the outside looking in, this times have changed. America had a similar thing go on in the 2000's where parks were building crazier and crazier every other year. Then.. late 2000's after the economic downturn, you saw much more conservative "pandering" as it were to local audiences. Expanding was slower, big rides weren't every year but every few years. A lot of that has already been noted but as the UK scene is much smaller and focused for the most park depending on the park, you won't see massive additions regularly for fear of overreaching their means and ending up like Six Flags.
 

furie

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It's always seemed to me that there was a sudden rocket blast of change in the 90's/early 00's.

I think it's simply new technology enabling rapid expansion and the drive and desire of the public to experience them.

If you look at the ride types available on 1985 compared to 1995, it's incredible what new designs and businesses arrived to sell them. It was a real Renaissance in the theme park world.

Just everything came together perfectly that meant you could have this massive boom within the market. An exponential growth over a short period that hasn't really slowed. The investment has, but I think that's because most "ride infrastructure" is in place and settled. Alton can milk Nemesis for another five years because it's such high quality. Came across so many parks worldwide. Good investment pays for itself for dozens of years.

Places like Busch, Universal, Phantasialand, Europe, Alton, etc. Pushed quality boundaries hard which meant everyone had to up their games (either in terms of presentation or ride quality /uniqueness)

Now we have stagnation again as assets are sweated and profits sought. Though we'll see more from places in a current bloom like Blackpool and Paultons. Just maybe not what we want ad enthusiasts.

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Pokemaniac

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Great to see your insightful answers, @furie! I have to admit, when I created this topic, I hoped to hear from some of you guys who had experienced the boom back then and saw how things changed. Summing it up so far, it looks like investment was unusually high during those years, and only a couple parks managed to capitalize on the stuff they purchased (for context, when Colossus was built in 2002, it was the third coaster at Thorpe, if RCDB is to be believed - at the time, its coasters were fewer, smaller, and less spectacular than those at Fantasy Island. They did work, though, which turned out to be a plus). And then came Merlin nowadays, pulling the market down a little, and the contrast between the peak around the turn of the millennium and the slump today becomes even more apparent.

Hopefully, there's reason to be optimistic about the ones remaining in the game, though!
 

ThrillX_the_Xplorer

Roller Poster
I did my work experience at Southport Pleasureland just after King Solomon's Mines was built and by all accounts they'd only recently acquired the zoo next door, which I'm not sure is common knowledge. Anyway the park apparently planned on expanding into it, with a river rapids and gyro swing on the drawing board at the time (source: the marketing manager). I couldn't believe everything fell apart only a matter of years later (the destruction of the Cyclone really annoyed me as that woodie could have been donated to the town without troubling BPB as a future threat).

Nothing in that park really stood out ride-wise (Traumatizer looked unusual but didn't seem to generate much buzz) or in terms of scenery, and the town itself lacked major appeal. Even with further investment I'm unsure of what the park could really have achieved going the way it was going?

With that in mind it will be very interesting to see how Dreamland develops in the future. I went last year and was quietly impressed with the mix of classic amusement rides, pleasant landscaping, events and more traditional forms of entertainment (roller skating, ice skating, live music venue, etc). I feel this park could, with careful management and additional funds, very gradually become a Grona Lund of sorts. My partner and I genuinely wanted to spend our time there - especially at night - and not just on the rides. I think the mindset of build big and build often is unsustainable for most parks. Build smart to create a unique and enjoyable environment is surely the better objective?
 

gavin

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The rides never really excelled and aged badly. Both parks also split their focus. FI was all about the market(which made it an awful place to visit) and FL also looks after the zoo (which is actually really good). So investment and concentration isn't where it should be. Then again, why should they if the investment never turns a real profit. Both parks are a little out of the way and not serviced by any major travel infrastructure. So I think their markets are always limited.

You're forgetting about Flamingoland's holiday park, which is a massive focus for them, bringing a lot more revenue than gate sales. It's also gone from just a bunch of static caravans in the '90s to a much wider choice of accommodation as, right up to self-contained, gated cottages away from the riff-raff of the main park.

Out of curiosity, I've just had a look at their prices. A week in their most basic accommodation (and yes, LOTS of people go there for a week or more) at low season is £778, going right up to £2,379 for a week in high season at their top end accommodation. I also did a quick booking check (chose some random dates in the summer) and a lot of my choices were already sold out. That's before you start looking at weekend/3-night/5-night breaks and other options they have. As a day visitor, it's easy to miss the holiday village aspect, but it's huge.

Purely anecdotal on my part, but back in the early '90s, Lightwater and Flamingoland seemed to be on a fairly even keel. We went on holiday to Scarborough a couple of times, and both places had a fairly equal presence in terms of advertising around the area. Flamingoland had more to offer with the zoo, but Lightwater had The Ultimate, which was heavily advertised in the area and was a big deal. By the late '90s, when I moved to Scarborough, Flamingoland were miles ahead.

So, why did Flamingoland "win"?

1. The Holiday Village is by far the biggest reason
2. Both places roughly have the same driving access from York or Leeds, but Flamingoland is way more accessible from the Yorkshire coast, so quite a lot of impulse visits from people holidaying in Scarborough, Bridlington and Whitby
3. Better public transport - they're both out of the way, but there are buses to Flamingoland from York, Leeds, Scarborough and Malton (closest train station)
4. Flamingoland continued to be a very visible presence around the north east in terms of advertising, while Lightwater disappeared.
5. Lightwater suffered even more when someone was killed on their spinner.

So looking at Flamingoland now, the investments aren't as interesting as they were in the past because they now have no competition in the the area plus a loyal customer base for their holiday park, and a big new ride isn't going to massively affect that customer base.
 

furie

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Hmmm... I did have local accommodation on my radar, but I wasn't sure to what kind of degree it had an affect.

LWV also has their own range of holiday homes and the popularity of Thomas Land allowed DMP to build their own hotel.

I think you're right though that with Flamingoland, the onsite accommodation options have really bolstered its bottom line. I don't think it is what drives the investment to the degree FL did though? When I first went in 2005/6, the park and zoo were already a great place for anyone staying on site. Their caravan rates are similar to Haven, so it's a great deal if you get the theme park included - much better offering than a sullen teen in a moth-eaten tiger costume.

I think (just my opinion) that the investment (like LWV with The Ultimate) was to capture a larger share of the market beyond. I'm not underestimating the volume of people who go to FL as a destination, but there's still a saturation point. So unlike Alton or Drayton, they need more people from wider areas on day trips as they're already full to busting. Everyone else is playing catch up here a little and becoming a "resort", but FL was already that.

Hmmmm... Not convinced by my own argument though LOL

I stopped at Thorpe Park (Cleethorpes) which is literally right next to the entrance of Pleasure Island. The caravan park was heaving, but there was nobody at Pleasure Island. Anecdotal I know, but it was sunny, school holidays and a weekend. Okay, people would have had to pay to get into PI, but it was like £15 or something. No reason for there not to be people coming in from the caravan park. Well, one reason, PI was a bit ****. A bit like FL in the 90's. Would more have come if they'd had a Megafobia? Thorpe Park (caravan site) was already full, so it wouldn't have attracted more visitors,but could it have captured a wider market from that east coast?

It's not quite the same because FL were lining their pockets and could then do the investment, but I don't quite understand the scale of FL's investment. In the 90's they had double (at least) the attractions PI did in the mid 2000's, so there must have been another driver for year on year multi-million pound investments into rides.

But yeah, I think you're right @gavin as to why FL beat LWV to a pulp in the end.
 

GeodieCoasterFan

Mega Poster
Also, should mention about the size of the UK and the history :D

Although it's not particularly quick to get from one end of the country to the other, there are still a huge number of (decently sized) parks for the distances to travel in the UK. LWV, FI and FL are all in roughly the same catchment area. AT and DMP accessible to the same people who can also hit up PBB, Thorpe Park and Chessington. Lots of competition for the same visitors.

Historically though, the UK park scene was coastal. Apart from Belle Vue in Manchester, I can't think of any large parks/coasters that weren't on the coast right up until the late 70's when Alton became a "theme park".

As the UK holiday industry collapsed in the 60's/70's, so did the parks. The deaths at Battersea park pretty much finished off the majority of parks still hanging in there. A mix of perception of old coasters being dangerous, and the fact that a lot of the rides were actually in such a poor state of repair that they were actually dangerous and were torn down. Investors saw no future in rides and attractions, so closed them down. Belle Vue could have been Manchester's answer to Liseberg, but it was sold off piecemeal for short term profits by a group that had no vision of what the future could bring (until they also decided to try and join in later on after the success of Alton and ultimately failed).

As the UK entered the 80's, it was the Alton model that investors followed. Converted old grounds (historical houses/gardens/zoos/etc.) that had had low footfall and huge upkeep, or relatively new visitor attractions like farms jumped on the "attraction bandwagon" and installed rides if they had the space.

So in a period of less than 15 years, you have a swathe of new parks rising from the ashes of the old coastal "funfair" scene. The desire was still there for the rides and attractions, but it had moved inland. 1994 was the perfect storm of all of this. Four parks at a level of maturity that meant they had the cash and outlook to invest. It never really started much of a war, but it did encourage others to invest later on - though by then the market was saturated.

So the history was never going to lead to a sustained growth of the market anyway. The foundations for the most part just weren't deep enough.

Fantasy Island is in skegness, the other 2 are in North Yorkshire, there is a canny hike between them. the 2 North Yorkshire parks have always had the advantage of all the people from the northeast having to come down there if they want to go to a park as there is nothing further north.

Some very interesting points elsewise
 

furie

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There is a difference from the North, but from the Midlands, they're all about 2 hours drive (about the same as Thorpe or Chessington actually).

The North East had White City and Metroland and still have Ocean Beach (is that the South Shields one?)

I know Blackpool is still very popular with the Scottish and M&Ds seems to do "okay".

I don't know what that means, but probably something lol

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GeodieCoasterFan

Mega Poster
There is a difference from the North, but from the Midlands, they're all about 2 hours drive (about the same as Thorpe or Chessington actually).

The North East had White City and Metroland and still have Ocean Beach (is that the South Shields one?)

I know Blackpool is still very popular with the Scottish and M&Ds seems to do "okay".

I don't know what that means, but probably something lol

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yeah I suppose from the midlands its a totally different ball game, when visiting flamingo ( haven't been to lightwater since my legs got to long the ultimate became hightly painful) it is usually full of people from North Yorkshire upwards. Don't know if Im just being naive but I would think most in the midlands would go to Towers or Drayton instead

Yeah a lot go across to Blackpool from the north east, M&D's nearly take as long to get too as Thorpe park from Tyneside

Do you mean the spanish city at whitley bay where the flamingo land corkscrew used to be?

Metroland was fun as a kid but was on the very small side and it is Ocean beach in my home town of south shields which this year has replaced its coaster of many years with a new spinning wild mouse called crash test which I gather was brought over from the Netherlands
 
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