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Universal UK theme park in Bedford
- Thread starter Matt N
- Start date
Nicky Borrill
Strata Poster
What are we thinking the chances are when it comes to LotR right now?
As far as I can see, the only evidence, or even suggestion, that it's coming, is from thoosies and a BBC article that doesn't name their 'source' (although their source also sounds suspiciously like a thoosie.) I can't see anything to suggest it in the concept art, nothing in patents or trademarks.
The film rights are NOT licensed to Universal, they're licensed to Warner Brothers / New Line. So this is not a Universal IP.
Nor is Universal, as of right now, thought to have acquired the theme park / amusement rights separately from M.E.E / Embracer Freemode and WB / New Line. Do we think Universal will have gotten this far in planning without a secure deal in place? If a secure deal was already in place, we'd know about it by now, wouldn't we? Or did I miss something? I mean, the wizarding world Disney / Universal bidding process, and eventual Disney fallout, was all public enough.
Just wondered what other people thought the chances really were? And, have I missed something, has there been news of a deal on the rights? Or is this all purely speculation, and 'hope' that a deal has been done on the hush hush?
They do say there's no smoke without fire, and this rumour has been persistent for years now...
As far as I can see, the only evidence, or even suggestion, that it's coming, is from thoosies and a BBC article that doesn't name their 'source' (although their source also sounds suspiciously like a thoosie.) I can't see anything to suggest it in the concept art, nothing in patents or trademarks.
The film rights are NOT licensed to Universal, they're licensed to Warner Brothers / New Line. So this is not a Universal IP.
Nor is Universal, as of right now, thought to have acquired the theme park / amusement rights separately from M.E.E / Embracer Freemode and WB / New Line. Do we think Universal will have gotten this far in planning without a secure deal in place? If a secure deal was already in place, we'd know about it by now, wouldn't we? Or did I miss something? I mean, the wizarding world Disney / Universal bidding process, and eventual Disney fallout, was all public enough.
Just wondered what other people thought the chances really were? And, have I missed something, has there been news of a deal on the rights? Or is this all purely speculation, and 'hope' that a deal has been done on the hush hush?
They do say there's no smoke without fire, and this rumour has been persistent for years now...
cookie
Giga Poster
The rumor’s been that they’ve tried to get the rights multiple times but the Tolkien estate always got in the way. This apparently became less of an issue with Embracer taking control of most of the brand, but there hasn’t been much word on it since.
you could say the same about harry potter
J_Taylor
Roller Poster
To be fair I can agree for/against, but considering how much Harry Potter is represented at the other parks a potential LoTR could be a refreshing change from a copy and paste Hogsmeade! Especially if it attracts international guests to the UK park
Disco Lumberjack
Mega Poster
It's one of the most critically and commercially successful franchises in the world. It's not Harry Potter/Marvel/Star Wars big, but to say it's niche I think is to redefine what the word niche means.
That said, there isn't any good evidence it's happening. Do not trust to hope. It has forsaken these lands.
Indeed. Lord of the Rings by most metrics is a far more successful IP than Back to the Future, Paddington and even James Bond which nobody seems to have an issue with existing in a theme park.
rollercoaster.jpg
Roller Poster
Tokyo DisneySea has a whole area themed to Jules Verne — which has way less relevancy to modern audiences than LOTR. However, it works because:
- it doesn't rely on deep knowledge of the source material. Other than a vague idea of the stories, it can just be enjoyed as a cool 'steampunk' land.
- they went 'big' and the execution is 100%
Josh94
Roller Poster
I'm a big fan of the IPs being rumored for this park. I'd love it if we got a set of lands and attractions that aren't seen in the other Universal parks around the world. As popular as a new Harry Potter land would inevitably be, do we really need more butter beer stalls and magic wand shops?
A Lord of the rings dark ride, done correctly, would be absolutely epic.
A Lord of the rings dark ride, done correctly, would be absolutely epic.
Chris Brown
Mr CoasterForce 2016
I couldnt agree more with this. I'm a huge fan of LotR, but have my doubts about how well a land would work. In comparison to HP, it just doesn't have iconic areas such as Diagon Alley, Hogwarts or Hogsmeade. The Shire is about as close as you get, I've seen shouts for Rivendell, which would be an amazing spectacle, but I wouldnt say it features in the films enough to really be that focal point. The scale would be really hard to get right.
I will caveat and say I've not watched Rings of Power but i just feel that LotR is very niche and does have a very specific audience, I dont think it would have the pull Universal would demand. That said, Id say the same with Back to the Future, so who knows!
The 80cm maximum height restriction would make it a hard-sell.
On a more serious note, the park seems to be missing a trick in terms of merchandising, Universal Orlando and Cali have both wands and power-bands that must generate a ton of profit, not to mention HP and the 1001 variations of Butterbeer food and drink. So I can see Lord of the Rings being seen as something that could justify similar style merch, Lembas Bread, Interactive wands etc.
I'm pulling this out of my arse, but I would have thought merchandise is up there with ticket sales in terms of revenue for these style parks.
roomraider
Best Topic Starter
Merch wise they're already behind the previous proposed Universal UK park.
Where are our t-shirts?
Where are our t-shirts?
Requests for tenders seem to have gone out to top-tier engineering consultancies and contractors (I work at one) associated with the Universal development. I think for site enabling works. Not a guarantee anything will go ahead (various companies also did work on The London Resort...), but it's another promising sign.
Paddington appeals to Kids and James Bond is arguably the biggest "English" IP besides HP. I don't like Back to the Future either because it's so dated, but at least it has potential for an extremely exciting ride with the DeLorean going 88 mph. LotR on the other hand doesn't have anything exciting going for it attraction-wise because all rides would need to resolve around the story and characters.
HP has sold more than 600 million books and its films have returned more than $9 billion. LotR has sold 150 million books and grossed $2,9 billion with its films. While there are many HP references even non-HP fans understand, there's only one that comes to mind with LotR, 'My precious'.
All that being said, I don't think HP will be featured. At least not from the beginning. Now that the cast of the new HP series has been confirmed, its failure seems inevitable. Because, the only thing being talked about is Snape's raceswapping.
Disco Lumberjack
Mega Poster
Every single one of the major Harry Potter attractions in Orlando have a heavy story and character focus. I can think of multiple exciting Lord of the Rings ride concepts, the one I would most like would be a Mines of Moria dark ride or possibly a story focused coaster.
If we’re assessing these things based on how much money they made, most franchises that have made any number north of a billion dollars are excellent candidates.
I think maybe you just don’t like Lord of the Rings, which is fine, but the idea it wouldn’t be a huge draw is preposterous.
bob_3_
Giga Poster
I totally understand the arguement that Warner Bros Studios Tour has exclusivity rights and they wouldn't want an attraction with the HP IP so closeby. BUT I do think there's another reason for there not to be a HP land at this park.
The lands at Florida and the other Universal parks are heavily focused on REAL LIFE locations in Britain (and now France), with a lot of the merch and food options being based in real life national dishes. Not to mention the facades are based on or entire recreations of real buildings. The brits might be taken out of the experience when they notice the difference between the real and theme park version. It's the same reason European parks all have a Wild West area in their parks, but you don't see it in the US. Even the "fantasy" elements of HP are based on real life streets/villages and castles.
HP drives a lot of american & asian tourism to the UK as its such a huge global IP, go round any city center especially London and Edinburgh, and there's a shop selling HP merch round every corner. But if you're trying to appeal to a European and UK audience, maybe Universal don't see it appealing as much as it does at it's other parks.
The lands at Florida and the other Universal parks are heavily focused on REAL LIFE locations in Britain (and now France), with a lot of the merch and food options being based in real life national dishes. Not to mention the facades are based on or entire recreations of real buildings. The brits might be taken out of the experience when they notice the difference between the real and theme park version. It's the same reason European parks all have a Wild West area in their parks, but you don't see it in the US. Even the "fantasy" elements of HP are based on real life streets/villages and castles.
HP drives a lot of american & asian tourism to the UK as its such a huge global IP, go round any city center especially London and Edinburgh, and there's a shop selling HP merch round every corner. But if you're trying to appeal to a European and UK audience, maybe Universal don't see it appealing as much as it does at it's other parks.
jasone
Mega Poster
I’m not really sure why anyone sees that much of a difference between LOTR, Harry Potter, Star Wars, Avatar etc.
They are all simple stories about good vs evil, so the crux is easy to follow. They are all loved because they are so good at world building, and for me that’s what makes them prime candidates for theme park worlds.
You don’t need to know the ins and outs of any of them to appreciate being transported into a world. I am not a Star Wars fan for example, but I’m sure I’d still get the wow moment of walking into galaxies edge. I may not get all the Easter eggs for the die hard fans, but the world building should be able to stand alone if it’s done correctly, and the IP is big enough that most visitors have some basic knowledge.
I still don’t think we’ll get LOTR mind you, but I am hoping for at least one of the worlds to be a fully immersive transported somewhere completely different kind of world. Back to the future, 007 and Paddington are very much stories set against the real world, even Jurassic park is, just with dinosaurs bought back from extinction.
Maybe that’s why Harry Potter has been so successful, it kind of straddles the gap between this amazing magical world with wow moments, so different to our own, but everything is set against a very believable and mundane muggle existence we’re familiar with and just itching to escape from! It’s grounded, but incredibly fantastical at the same.
They are all simple stories about good vs evil, so the crux is easy to follow. They are all loved because they are so good at world building, and for me that’s what makes them prime candidates for theme park worlds.
You don’t need to know the ins and outs of any of them to appreciate being transported into a world. I am not a Star Wars fan for example, but I’m sure I’d still get the wow moment of walking into galaxies edge. I may not get all the Easter eggs for the die hard fans, but the world building should be able to stand alone if it’s done correctly, and the IP is big enough that most visitors have some basic knowledge.
I still don’t think we’ll get LOTR mind you, but I am hoping for at least one of the worlds to be a fully immersive transported somewhere completely different kind of world. Back to the future, 007 and Paddington are very much stories set against the real world, even Jurassic park is, just with dinosaurs bought back from extinction.
Maybe that’s why Harry Potter has been so successful, it kind of straddles the gap between this amazing magical world with wow moments, so different to our own, but everything is set against a very believable and mundane muggle existence we’re familiar with and just itching to escape from! It’s grounded, but incredibly fantastical at the same.