Thorpe Park | Derren Brown's Ghost Train | VR Attraction
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Re: Thorpe Park construction?
It's safe to say that the mid term development plan as we know it has been suspended.
Spicy is right to mention return on investment. Since Merlin went public, the attitude and develop of brand Merlin changed. It's all very well moaning that "Europe get big coasters every two years blah blah and the UK suffers", that's because more than half of Merlin's attractions are already in the UK and they have their eye on investing elsewhere. Rant over.
As for this dark ride, the rumours point to one heck of a budget. Dark rides are actually relatively cheap to build. Therefore I'm expecting a lot of the money to spent on theming, offering us a visual delight. This is Merlin's first proper dark ride (excluding Sub Terror and I think C&TCF was Tussauds). I'm under no illusion they want to make it spectacular.
It's safe to say that the mid term development plan as we know it has been suspended.
Spicy is right to mention return on investment. Since Merlin went public, the attitude and develop of brand Merlin changed. It's all very well moaning that "Europe get big coasters every two years blah blah and the UK suffers", that's because more than half of Merlin's attractions are already in the UK and they have their eye on investing elsewhere. Rant over.
As for this dark ride, the rumours point to one heck of a budget. Dark rides are actually relatively cheap to build. Therefore I'm expecting a lot of the money to spent on theming, offering us a visual delight. This is Merlin's first proper dark ride (excluding Sub Terror and I think C&TCF was Tussauds). I'm under no illusion they want to make it spectacular.
Darren B
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
^I don't give a **** about Merlin going public. What I care about is having a brilliant day out and riding some of the best coasters in the world. Why should I have to travel to Germany to get that?
You can rant as much as you want, Ian, but when all is said and done we're looking at this from a customers POV not the parks.
We let Merlin reach into our pockets (me included) and don't get a great deal in return. For this reason I really hope that Paramount blows Merlin out the water! Because, Merlin will be left with no choice but to up their game, just as they've had to in Germany.
^I don't give a **** about Merlin going public. What I care about is having a brilliant day out and riding some of the best coasters in the world. Why should I have to travel to Germany to get that?
You can rant as much as you want, Ian, but when all is said and done we're looking at this from a customers POV not the parks.
We let Merlin reach into our pockets (me included) and don't get a great deal in return. For this reason I really hope that Paramount blows Merlin out the water! Because, Merlin will be left with no choice but to up their game, just as they've had to in Germany.
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
^ You're missing my point, Goonfield.
To understand the reasoning behind their shift from the MTDP, you have to understand how they operate.
I agree that a sexy coaster is on the top of my wish list AND it would get more people through the gates, but it's not going to happen anytime soon with a UK Merlin park. They do understand their customers which is why they are diversifying with resorts and non-coaster attractions.
Us enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of visitor numbers (albeit we are likely to make more return visits), but from a "customers" point of view (i.e.: the general public), a big coaster every two to three years is not on the top of their list.
Don't write something off just because it isn't a roller coaster. Enjoy a theme park for what it is, not for the number of +1's it might have!
^ You're missing my point, Goonfield.
To understand the reasoning behind their shift from the MTDP, you have to understand how they operate.
I agree that a sexy coaster is on the top of my wish list AND it would get more people through the gates, but it's not going to happen anytime soon with a UK Merlin park. They do understand their customers which is why they are diversifying with resorts and non-coaster attractions.
Us enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of visitor numbers (albeit we are likely to make more return visits), but from a "customers" point of view (i.e.: the general public), a big coaster every two to three years is not on the top of their list.
Don't write something off just because it isn't a roller coaster. Enjoy a theme park for what it is, not for the number of +1's it might have!
Darren B
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
I get your point 100%. What I'm saying is I don't care how they operate, I care about what thrills they deliver. I want something substantial, and I don't think, as a genuine customer who spends a lot of money at parks, I'm getting value for money.
On your point about enjoying the park - I'm 27 years old. I'm not going to theme parks for a 'magical' boat ride, a fancy dark ride, a spectacular show or to watch an illegal immigrant parade around in a giant mouse costume. I (along with the vast majority of Thorpe's repeat visitors) go for the thrills.
This is my argument all along, you're not going to please the masses with something that's very unlikely to thrill. And most importantly - Thorpe can't hit a switch and turn from a thrill park that attracts teens adults to a family park. Their current audience don't want 30 million pound dark rides, they want the next big thrill.
I hope will all my heart that this turns into a monumental **** up! Then, just maybe, they'll go back to doing what they do best.
Ian said:
I get your point 100%. What I'm saying is I don't care how they operate, I care about what thrills they deliver. I want something substantial, and I don't think, as a genuine customer who spends a lot of money at parks, I'm getting value for money.
On your point about enjoying the park - I'm 27 years old. I'm not going to theme parks for a 'magical' boat ride, a fancy dark ride, a spectacular show or to watch an illegal immigrant parade around in a giant mouse costume. I (along with the vast majority of Thorpe's repeat visitors) go for the thrills.
This is my argument all along, you're not going to please the masses with something that's very unlikely to thrill. And most importantly - Thorpe can't hit a switch and turn from a thrill park that attracts teens adults to a family park. Their current audience don't want 30 million pound dark rides, they want the next big thrill.
I hope will all my heart that this turns into a monumental **** up! Then, just maybe, they'll go back to doing what they do best.
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
I can see what you are saying Darren but you saying that your 27 and want thrills at a park is a personal choise, I'm 33 and love thrill rides but I still like the escape from the real world a theme park gives me. Lesser thrills included something thorpe has lost its way on for while.
Merlin I think have seen how the park has turned into a bland island and now want to create a more rounded park for all guests. This new dark ride will compliment the offering the park has, which is great I will add. We may see in the future plans to create Thorpe Park into a more immersive environment.
I can see what you are saying Darren but you saying that your 27 and want thrills at a park is a personal choise, I'm 33 and love thrill rides but I still like the escape from the real world a theme park gives me. Lesser thrills included something thorpe has lost its way on for while.
Merlin I think have seen how the park has turned into a bland island and now want to create a more rounded park for all guests. This new dark ride will compliment the offering the park has, which is great I will add. We may see in the future plans to create Thorpe Park into a more immersive environment.
ThomVD
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
I think a dark ride could be good even in a thrill park. Some visitors that love thrills do want to take a break from those thrills once in a while. From what I've seen, Thorpe doesn't have many rides in that category. I just hope they will build a B&M hyper next.
I think a dark ride could be good even in a thrill park. Some visitors that love thrills do want to take a break from those thrills once in a while. From what I've seen, Thorpe doesn't have many rides in that category. I just hope they will build a B&M hyper next.
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
A dark ride can be thrilling as well, let's not forget that.
Spider-Man, Forbidden Journey, Tower of Terror and I'm guessing Transformers are all thrilling dark rides. If they plonked any of these in it'd go down like a treat.
Not that this will be up there because it's Merlin but the point stands, dark rides don't have to be tame.
A dark ride can be thrilling as well, let's not forget that.
Spider-Man, Forbidden Journey, Tower of Terror and I'm guessing Transformers are all thrilling dark rides. If they plonked any of these in it'd go down like a treat.
Not that this will be up there because it's Merlin but the point stands, dark rides don't have to be tame.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Yeah in ride hardware terms, dark rides are cheap, but without theming they DON'T EXIST.
For what they are and their return investment, dark rides are expensive as ****.
What?Ian said:
Yeah in ride hardware terms, dark rides are cheap, but without theming they DON'T EXIST.
For what they are and their return investment, dark rides are expensive as ****.
Nic
Strata Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Darren, In total you probably give Merlin, what, about £250 a year with your "membership" and food etc. Those of us who buy our passes outright will probably spend a bit less than £200 in an entire 12 month period. I suspect that the average family probably spends the best part of that in a single visit. Therefore, to say that Merlin should be designing their new attractions around you (or people like you) is a very short sighted view, and not one that makes business sense.
Darren, In total you probably give Merlin, what, about £250 a year with your "membership" and food etc. Those of us who buy our passes outright will probably spend a bit less than £200 in an entire 12 month period. I suspect that the average family probably spends the best part of that in a single visit. Therefore, to say that Merlin should be designing their new attractions around you (or people like you) is a very short sighted view, and not one that makes business sense.
DelPiero
Strata Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
My opinion is that Thorpe have screwed up with their current coaster lineup. If they had one European class coaster then I'd be 100% for this dark ride, however, they don't, and only stealth is of any draw to me personally.
Instead of going for world/European first records and building a load of "supporting cast" rides, all they needed was a good gravity or cgi woody or the damn hyper we all want.
I don't see a reason for them to invest in younger family rides, it's been done to death on here but Windsor and Chessie have those markets nailed down, why spread the market into another merlin owned park?
If it wasn't for being so close to Thorpe I'd probably only go once, maybe twice a year, and would spend more time at alton or abroad.
Get rid of the crap, build the hyper/woodie and balance the park based on the big two.
The timing isn't right for me on this project, they're doing it in the wrong order imo.
My opinion is that Thorpe have screwed up with their current coaster lineup. If they had one European class coaster then I'd be 100% for this dark ride, however, they don't, and only stealth is of any draw to me personally.
Instead of going for world/European first records and building a load of "supporting cast" rides, all they needed was a good gravity or cgi woody or the damn hyper we all want.
I don't see a reason for them to invest in younger family rides, it's been done to death on here but Windsor and Chessie have those markets nailed down, why spread the market into another merlin owned park?
If it wasn't for being so close to Thorpe I'd probably only go once, maybe twice a year, and would spend more time at alton or abroad.
Get rid of the crap, build the hyper/woodie and balance the park based on the big two.
The timing isn't right for me on this project, they're doing it in the wrong order imo.
Darren B
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
I am their customer base. Forget about what they want to be - that's never going to happen. They need to focus on people like me (their core customer base). Families make up a tiny percentage of their current attendance figures.
For you to call me short sighted is pretty shocking, I'd expect more from you. I'm so right about this it's unreal! Thorpe will never be more than what they are now, and if they don't start satisfying their customers soon they'll be in the ****!
Nic said:
I am their customer base. Forget about what they want to be - that's never going to happen. They need to focus on people like me (their core customer base). Families make up a tiny percentage of their current attendance figures.
For you to call me short sighted is pretty shocking, I'd expect more from you. I'm so right about this it's unreal! Thorpe will never be more than what they are now, and if they don't start satisfying their customers soon they'll be in the ****!
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
Yeah, I don't understand the obsession with families.
Families are tight, they're saving for school supplies and mortgage payments. Unless you're Disney and you have a brand worth paying for, they won't.
Young people on the other hand have no commitments, all their income is disposable. More and more people are staying at home and literally every penny they earn is disposable, and others even with rent haven't got the expensive commitments of families.
But no, get the families in with all their pre-packed sandwiches and buy one get one frees.
Yeah, I don't understand the obsession with families.
Families are tight, they're saving for school supplies and mortgage payments. Unless you're Disney and you have a brand worth paying for, they won't.
Young people on the other hand have no commitments, all their income is disposable. More and more people are staying at home and literally every penny they earn is disposable, and others even with rent haven't got the expensive commitments of families.
But no, get the families in with all their pre-packed sandwiches and buy one get one frees.
sparky2u
Mega Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
http://www.themeparks-uk.com/thorpe-par ... -ride.html
Thorpe Park has applied for planning permission to build a 2438sqm building to house a unique indoor fully themed attraction ready to open for Summer 2016.
I hope Sally Corp is involved with this as i'll like to see a dark ride similar to "Challenge of Tutankhamon" located at Walibi Belgium.
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... rev=search
http://www.themeparks-uk.com/thorpe-par ... -ride.html
Thorpe Park has applied for planning permission to build a 2438sqm building to house a unique indoor fully themed attraction ready to open for Summer 2016.
I hope Sally Corp is involved with this as i'll like to see a dark ride similar to "Challenge of Tutankhamon" located at Walibi Belgium.
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... rev=search
Darren B
Giga Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
You've hit the nail on the head.
The problem Merlin face though is they up sell using the same methods whether it's at Alton, Thorpe or SeaLife. They need to tailor their sales to their customer base. I bet Thorpe sell less ORP's than any other Merlin park - TP's clientele don't want to spend £7 on a photo. Make it an electronic purchase and charge £2 a photo; they'll be rolling in it.
That's one example, but, if you dig deeper I bet there are loads of ways to make the customer part with their hard earned cash. You just need to make it tie in with the park.
Ben said:
You've hit the nail on the head.
The problem Merlin face though is they up sell using the same methods whether it's at Alton, Thorpe or SeaLife. They need to tailor their sales to their customer base. I bet Thorpe sell less ORP's than any other Merlin park - TP's clientele don't want to spend £7 on a photo. Make it an electronic purchase and charge £2 a photo; they'll be rolling in it.
That's one example, but, if you dig deeper I bet there are loads of ways to make the customer part with their hard earned cash. You just need to make it tie in with the park.
cjbrandy
Hyper Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
If you thought £7 for the ORP's was overpriced (which it is), I have some bad news for you- they cost £10! Also a 5 minute DVD of your ride on The Swarm would cost you 15 **** pounds!
I don't know if this would work but maybe if they made their drinks, confectionary etc all £1 rather than £2.50 or whatever they are, they would sell so much more and make more money over time.
Darren B said:
If you thought £7 for the ORP's was overpriced (which it is), I have some bad news for you- they cost £10! Also a 5 minute DVD of your ride on The Swarm would cost you 15 **** pounds!
I don't know if this would work but maybe if they made their drinks, confectionary etc all £1 rather than £2.50 or whatever they are, they would sell so much more and make more money over time.
caffeine_demon
Strata Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
I love a good dark ride - In fact, I love most crap dark rides too! I reckon this will probably be in the latter category though!
I love a good dark ride - In fact, I love most crap dark rides too! I reckon this will probably be in the latter category though!
Nemesis Inferno
Strata Poster
Re: Thorpe Park construction?
If it were the case that families don't spend on park and teens do, then why are Thorpe the worst performers in the Merlin UK branch?
Families are more likely to spend money on tat, because little Timmy wants a teddy bear or medal/trophy whatever other tat they're selling these days... Plus ORPs, more food, etc...
The problem is that Merlin are extremely short-termism atm, and the parallels between Thorpe and Magic Mountain a few years ago (when they too tried to mingle into the family market and failed miserably) are becoming closer and closer... Thorpe's rebrand came through as a result of the poor performance over the last few years (worse than Chessie, only better than Gardaland worldwide Merlin-wise), but because Merlin seemingly thought they could just flick a switch and await the flocks of families to go to a place that told them to **** off the past few years, they've hit a brick wall and don't really know what to do with themselves...
I still doubt Merlin can make a dark ride work, especially if they get a half decent IP (say Hunger Games, wonder how much that'll cost them out the budget)...
Ben said:
If it were the case that families don't spend on park and teens do, then why are Thorpe the worst performers in the Merlin UK branch?
Families are more likely to spend money on tat, because little Timmy wants a teddy bear or medal/trophy whatever other tat they're selling these days... Plus ORPs, more food, etc...
The problem is that Merlin are extremely short-termism atm, and the parallels between Thorpe and Magic Mountain a few years ago (when they too tried to mingle into the family market and failed miserably) are becoming closer and closer... Thorpe's rebrand came through as a result of the poor performance over the last few years (worse than Chessie, only better than Gardaland worldwide Merlin-wise), but because Merlin seemingly thought they could just flick a switch and await the flocks of families to go to a place that told them to **** off the past few years, they've hit a brick wall and don't really know what to do with themselves...
I still doubt Merlin can make a dark ride work, especially if they get a half decent IP (say Hunger Games, wonder how much that'll cost them out the budget)...