The Israel/Palestine issue.
- Thread starter Youngster Joey
- Start date
You've probably all seen this before, but **** it:
Yeah, the Jews have been royally **** on in the past. That's awful, it really is. It doesn't in any way justify essentially stealing someone else's land though, and it certainly isn't a reason for treating other people like absolute crap, especially since you've taken over - with the help of others, admittedly - their territory in the first place.
If anyone knows what it's like to be oppressed, it's the Jews, so you'd think they might think twice before turning somebody else into lower-class citizens.
Oh, and just because an old book of fairytales says it belongs to you doesn't make it right either.
Yeah, the Jews have been royally **** on in the past. That's awful, it really is. It doesn't in any way justify essentially stealing someone else's land though, and it certainly isn't a reason for treating other people like absolute crap, especially since you've taken over - with the help of others, admittedly - their territory in the first place.
If anyone knows what it's like to be oppressed, it's the Jews, so you'd think they might think twice before turning somebody else into lower-class citizens.
Oh, and just because an old book of fairytales says it belongs to you doesn't make it right either.
Youngster Joey
Strata Poster
^It's all religion. The Jew's had this land since Adam and Eve and then it was taken from them. My understanding is that Islam says that they were given said land. No religion no major problem as the need for a "jewish state" wouldn't exist.
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
So, if you agree that it's **** retarded, why support Israel? Not saying you should support Palestine, but a general "they're both disgraceful" would be more logical, no?Youngster Joey said:
You never get to hear the Muslim voice saying that the land is theirs, that they own it. Not because it doesn't exist, but because the world doesn't give Palestinians the light of day to express their beliefs. The world is in favour of Israel.
I don't like the way that groups of people are judged on the basis of their history. What my father did or does is nothing to do with me. What my great grandfather did or does is definitely nothing to do with me. Comments like "what the Japanese/Germans did in the war was awful" make me so angry. The people who make up the masses, running the country and contributing to society, are in no way related (in political terms) to the people who did awful things. It's not relevant anymore, and continuing to judge a group of people by their past, with which they had nothing to do with, is so mind numbingly cruel. The same can be said on the flip side, and sympathy to a group for past atrocities to the point of letting them get away with contemporary atrocities, is disgusting.
The land "belongs" to no one. What should be sought is to put history behind and do the right thing. But they won't, because people are vile and because religion makes vile people more vile.
I've stayed out of this so far.
Before people comment they really need to look up the history of what happened over there.
Look up what happened, look how the USA and the UK divided the land.
Look up the six day war. This shows why the gaza area is causing so many problems. People keep thinking that Israel just invaded and this is not what happened.
I'm not pro Israel at all btw. There is no homeland until the Jewish people are led there, that's if you believe in the book of stories.
For the Arabs and Jewish people to live in peace out there the Arabs need a party that know what they are doing. At the moment they are led by a group it terrorists.
Some people are just posting complete **** without knowing the facts though and that annoys me.
Before people comment they really need to look up the history of what happened over there.
Look up what happened, look how the USA and the UK divided the land.
Look up the six day war. This shows why the gaza area is causing so many problems. People keep thinking that Israel just invaded and this is not what happened.
I'm not pro Israel at all btw. There is no homeland until the Jewish people are led there, that's if you believe in the book of stories.
For the Arabs and Jewish people to live in peace out there the Arabs need a party that know what they are doing. At the moment they are led by a group it terrorists.
Some people are just posting complete **** without knowing the facts though and that annoys me.
Marc, I've tried to research everything in as objective manner as I could. If I'm wrong somewhere or ill informed, I'm happy to be corrected 
See, this is all part of the complexity of the issue. Gavin's image speaks volumes, but it kind of misses out a lot too.
Remember, Israel legally owns most of the land in those images. The reasons for them owning it legally aren't good though. It's a weak foundation and it's an incursion into another people's territory. Said people weren't happy and (with the aid of other Muslim nations) fought back using terrorist and guerilla tactics against Israel. This led to the Six Day war which Israel won with no uncertainty and they gained control of more land "to reduce attacks on Israel".
That's pretty much been the pattern since. Palestine use terrorist attacks and Israel respond with more violence and/or land grabs. The Israelis don't help by then building in areas that are meant to be buffer zones or belong to Palestine but are not meant to be used for living. They're constantly pushing into Palestinian lands in some areas, which then causes the Palestinians to attack back with violence.
Part of the move by Palestine with the acceptance into the UN is to try and get them recognition and help to stop Israel from pushing their borders and to help them negotiate some form of peace. Unfortunately, Palestine is split into two organisations. The official one (the PLO) came from a terrorist background and is trying to be legit. A lot of members seem to think that they should just use violence.
The other group, Hamas, governs the Gaza Strip and are classed as a terrorist organisation. They will never agree to compromises with Israel and believe that only by fighting back can they regain their lands from Israel (they were given a lot of it back in 2003 (I think it was 2003)). So you have one legitimate party trying to go the political route, but they have a dubious background and are inextricably linked to a terrorist organisation physically fighting.
This is why you tend not to hear the Muslim voice; it's disparate and has its roots in violence.
While Israel are far from innocent and far from pacifist, they're reactive violent rather than instigators. Kind of like the kids in school who yell abuse and call you names to goad you into hitting them. Then when you do, you threw the first punch and it's your fault then that they flattened you.
Joey said:
See, this is all part of the complexity of the issue. Gavin's image speaks volumes, but it kind of misses out a lot too.
Remember, Israel legally owns most of the land in those images. The reasons for them owning it legally aren't good though. It's a weak foundation and it's an incursion into another people's territory. Said people weren't happy and (with the aid of other Muslim nations) fought back using terrorist and guerilla tactics against Israel. This led to the Six Day war which Israel won with no uncertainty and they gained control of more land "to reduce attacks on Israel".
That's pretty much been the pattern since. Palestine use terrorist attacks and Israel respond with more violence and/or land grabs. The Israelis don't help by then building in areas that are meant to be buffer zones or belong to Palestine but are not meant to be used for living. They're constantly pushing into Palestinian lands in some areas, which then causes the Palestinians to attack back with violence.
Part of the move by Palestine with the acceptance into the UN is to try and get them recognition and help to stop Israel from pushing their borders and to help them negotiate some form of peace. Unfortunately, Palestine is split into two organisations. The official one (the PLO) came from a terrorist background and is trying to be legit. A lot of members seem to think that they should just use violence.
The other group, Hamas, governs the Gaza Strip and are classed as a terrorist organisation. They will never agree to compromises with Israel and believe that only by fighting back can they regain their lands from Israel (they were given a lot of it back in 2003 (I think it was 2003)). So you have one legitimate party trying to go the political route, but they have a dubious background and are inextricably linked to a terrorist organisation physically fighting.
This is why you tend not to hear the Muslim voice; it's disparate and has its roots in violence.
While Israel are far from innocent and far from pacifist, they're reactive violent rather than instigators. Kind of like the kids in school who yell abuse and call you names to goad you into hitting them. Then when you do, you threw the first punch and it's your fault then that they flattened you.
Furie you were correct in the most part
The occupied land was not actually occupied by Israel until the 6 day war. They tried to invade Israel during the Jewish new year and lost, the also lost their land and as a result Israel took the land over which they won.
It's like the UK winning land in Ireland, did we give that back?
Anyway Israel finally gave some of it back but they want it all including Israel. The problem is they just seem to use pease as a time to re arm and it all starts again. They do not recognise Israel as a country or a state so in their minds it should not be there.
It looks worse when Israel attack back as they have planes and are trained to you weapons so more damage is done.
We don't really hear both sides over here and the press are more interested in showing hurt kids. But 9 times out of 10 families get moved to these buildings just to try and get the world vote.
Sorry but if you are being bombed for 2 months you have every right to defend yourself.
Maybe the USA and the UK should have studied what they were doing a bit more rather than give the same land to 3 religions. Just want to say the Jewish and the Christians live in harmony, the Arabs don't just attack Jewish people btw they also want the Christians out.
The occupied land was not actually occupied by Israel until the 6 day war. They tried to invade Israel during the Jewish new year and lost, the also lost their land and as a result Israel took the land over which they won.
It's like the UK winning land in Ireland, did we give that back?
Anyway Israel finally gave some of it back but they want it all including Israel. The problem is they just seem to use pease as a time to re arm and it all starts again. They do not recognise Israel as a country or a state so in their minds it should not be there.
It looks worse when Israel attack back as they have planes and are trained to you weapons so more damage is done.
We don't really hear both sides over here and the press are more interested in showing hurt kids. But 9 times out of 10 families get moved to these buildings just to try and get the world vote.
Sorry but if you are being bombed for 2 months you have every right to defend yourself.
Maybe the USA and the UK should have studied what they were doing a bit more rather than give the same land to 3 religions. Just want to say the Jewish and the Christians live in harmony, the Arabs don't just attack Jewish people btw they also want the Christians out.