The Games we play...
- Thread starter Ormerod
- Start date
Do you not just think it's bland? Probably not because it's got F1 in it 
It just wasn't exciting. The power ups were hit and miss and the damage annoying.
Actually, it's a perfect representation of F1! Or have I already made that joke?
I loved the style though and it's got a fantastic presentation. The tracks were fine too, but when compared to the likes of Mario Kart, Sega All-Star Racing, et al there's just nothing to it. It's a superb budget game. I don't know what the actual price is mind :lol:
Pierre: When Vikings Attack is excellent, but... You can't complete some of the end of level bosses single player - you need help. It allows drop in and out multiplayer seamlessly though. It's really all about the multiplayer anyway.
Played the Epic Mickey 2 Demo yesterday too. What an absolutely gorgeous game, simply stunning. Pity the game play is really frustrating... It's simple puzzles and platforming, but the puzzles aren't clearly defined. So lots of wandering around trying to work out what to do and hitting things with other things and the like. Then suddenly you'll find that doing something you've done 20 times already will mysteriously activate the puzzle solution.
Then you hit awkward platforming sections where the camera swings annoyingly and you miss the jump and it's back climbing up a load of bad platform bits. So frustrating, because the game is utterly stunningly produced. You look at it and want to adore it, then play it and hate it.
It just wasn't exciting. The power ups were hit and miss and the damage annoying.
Actually, it's a perfect representation of F1! Or have I already made that joke?
I loved the style though and it's got a fantastic presentation. The tracks were fine too, but when compared to the likes of Mario Kart, Sega All-Star Racing, et al there's just nothing to it. It's a superb budget game. I don't know what the actual price is mind :lol:
Pierre: When Vikings Attack is excellent, but... You can't complete some of the end of level bosses single player - you need help. It allows drop in and out multiplayer seamlessly though. It's really all about the multiplayer anyway.
Played the Epic Mickey 2 Demo yesterday too. What an absolutely gorgeous game, simply stunning. Pity the game play is really frustrating... It's simple puzzles and platforming, but the puzzles aren't clearly defined. So lots of wandering around trying to work out what to do and hitting things with other things and the like. Then suddenly you'll find that doing something you've done 20 times already will mysteriously activate the puzzle solution.
Then you hit awkward platforming sections where the camera swings annoyingly and you miss the jump and it's back climbing up a load of bad platform bits. So frustrating, because the game is utterly stunningly produced. You look at it and want to adore it, then play it and hate it.
nealbie
CF Legend
The only thing that annoyed me was the steering. The damage was fine after my first go, as it's relatively straightforward to avoid being hit and you save time coming into the pits.
The little finishing touches were AMAZING. Like driver animations and crippled cars and the powerups. Thoroughly enjoyable.
The little finishing touches were AMAZING. Like driver animations and crippled cars and the powerups. Thoroughly enjoyable.
nealbie said:
marc said:
Agreed on both fronts. I thought the presentation and little animation touches and the like were superb.
However...
marc said:
I thought the game itself was far too simple. It's like Mario Kart never happened, even the original. The gameplay was incredibly basic for a kart racer.
So it doesn't have fun handling or the fun and excitement of a "fully developed" kart racer. As I say, it was the kind of game you'd be chuffed about paying £10 for as it's so well presented and the gameplay is "good enough". As a full price title though, I think the game will wear very thin very quickly. There just wasn't enough going on, it wasn't exciting at all.
My first impression was that it was good fun, but then after playing the demo a couple more times, I just found it really boring and really easy.
Sega All Stars Racing is better than Mario Kart (there, I said it ) and dead cheap on the PS3. Little Big Planet Karting is also better (but currently more expensive).
It's all down to how much the subject matter makes up for the downfall in gameplay. If you get a real kick out of what they've done with the F1 franchise (in terms of characters, countries, etc) then you'll obviously get more from the game from somebody who has no interest. I just didn't think there was enough to even keep a hardened fan entertained for very long.
Still, I enjoyed it more than F1 2012
) and dead cheap on the PS3. Little Big Planet Karting is also better (but currently more expensive).It's all down to how much the subject matter makes up for the downfall in gameplay. If you get a real kick out of what they've done with the F1 franchise (in terms of characters, countries, etc) then you'll obviously get more from the game from somebody who has no interest. I just didn't think there was enough to even keep a hardened fan entertained for very long.
Still, I enjoyed it more than F1 2012
Colossus
Giga Poster
furie said:
I actually love Sega All Stars Racing and I agree with this statement. I like it because it`s silly, I have the Forza series for serious racing, so this is a real nice way to just have a bit of good old silly fun. I`m really excited about the second one, which I should imagine will go on my Christmas list due to a certain feeble first person shooter coming out on Monday night that I totally haven't taken a week off work to play, :roll: sucking up all my xbox time.
furie said:Still, I enjoyed it more than F1 2012
You see I fall for this every year, every year I pick it up, normally when it hits around the £20 region, and I literally never play it.
EnigmaHyena
Hyper Poster
I really enjoyed the F1 Star Racers demo. Firstly as an arty-farty illustrator I appreciate all the quirky animations and character styles, secondly the Germany track assaults you with Oompa music which is always a good thing and thirdly it's got that pick up and play quality to it. I raced as Button and Raikkonen in 3,000cc and loved the controls and overall silliness of it all. Which is a relief since I suck at virtually all F1 games except Championship Edition, ha.
I'm looking forward to Singapore and Brazil, but I guess the main factor will be how much the full game is. I may ask for it as a Christmas present from my dad since he's always been a dedicated F1 fan and he's spent pretty much my whole life trying to get me into it. I imagine multiplayer will be very entertaining.
The next game I get from PSN will no doubt be Okami HD. I've already bought it twice (well, four if you count the original PS2 copy that a friend loved so much they refused to give back and the copy I bought for my best friend) but I love it so much I'm willing to pay for it again. It's probably one of the most visually striking games of the last decade so seeing it in 1080p will be awesome. The endless amount of text and pointless/boring sections still irk me (plus Capcom's inability to create a decent trailer for it) but they're not enough to ruin the overall game. Although Phil will hate it since it's an homage to Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time :wink: Still one of my all time favourites, just love the surreal and creepy demon designs, the Japanese music, the combat and how much the story drags you in. Although my family often watch me play it I'd say it's really not spectator-friendly since there's so much exploring to do...and a frustrating amount of dialogue.
Also beat all of the Uncharted games, minus the Vita version, which I adored. Well they're by Naughty Dog, what do you expect?! Looking forward to the new Ratchet and Clank game too, it'll no doubt have it's usual adult dark humour and great gameplay.
As for Sega All Stars Racing I thought the original was a bit tacky from what I played but maybe Transformed will prove me wrong. It's still a stupid series purely because Sonic doesn't need to drive a car since he's meant to be faster than the speed of sound. In fact, how about Sega just go back to the golden days of making MegaDrive games?
I'm looking forward to Singapore and Brazil, but I guess the main factor will be how much the full game is. I may ask for it as a Christmas present from my dad since he's always been a dedicated F1 fan and he's spent pretty much my whole life trying to get me into it. I imagine multiplayer will be very entertaining.
The next game I get from PSN will no doubt be Okami HD. I've already bought it twice (well, four if you count the original PS2 copy that a friend loved so much they refused to give back and the copy I bought for my best friend) but I love it so much I'm willing to pay for it again. It's probably one of the most visually striking games of the last decade so seeing it in 1080p will be awesome. The endless amount of text and pointless/boring sections still irk me (plus Capcom's inability to create a decent trailer for it) but they're not enough to ruin the overall game. Although Phil will hate it since it's an homage to Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time :wink: Still one of my all time favourites, just love the surreal and creepy demon designs, the Japanese music, the combat and how much the story drags you in. Although my family often watch me play it I'd say it's really not spectator-friendly since there's so much exploring to do...and a frustrating amount of dialogue.
Also beat all of the Uncharted games, minus the Vita version, which I adored. Well they're by Naughty Dog, what do you expect?! Looking forward to the new Ratchet and Clank game too, it'll no doubt have it's usual adult dark humour and great gameplay.
As for Sega All Stars Racing I thought the original was a bit tacky from what I played but maybe Transformed will prove me wrong. It's still a stupid series purely because Sonic doesn't need to drive a car since he's meant to be faster than the speed of sound. In fact, how about Sega just go back to the golden days of making MegaDrive games?
EnigmaHyena
Hyper Poster
I'm not even going to bother thinking about looking at both sides Phil, Megadrive had Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Your opinion is invalid. Throw in Ristar, Michael Jackson's Moonwalker (so bad it's good), Lemmings, Comix Zone, Toejam and Earl, F1, Desert Strike, Shinobi and Sonic 1, 2 and Sonic CD (CD attached to the MD, it counts. STFU) and you've got yourself a stellar console. Plus it was released around when I was born so it was bound to be awesome :wink:.
(Let's not talk about the endless 3rd party platformers and RPGs...they didn't happen...)
You say they're sucky now but I still get far more enjoyment out of those 16-bit cartridges than most fancy hi-def modern games. Plus 16-bit graphics are sexy and colourful.
(Let's not talk about the endless 3rd party platformers and RPGs...they didn't happen...)
You say they're sucky now but I still get far more enjoyment out of those 16-bit cartridges than most fancy hi-def modern games. Plus 16-bit graphics are sexy and colourful.
Toejam and Earl was made by JVP and just published by Sega. The *Strike series of games was EA and released multiplatform. Lemmings was DMA design and nothnig to do with Sega and was initially an Amiga release,
I dislike platform games, so Sonic series and Ristar mean nothing to me. I've played them all, but I find them really dull. That's mainly because for a period in the early 90's, all that was released was platform games. Just endless wave after of Mario and Sonic wannabes. It was depressing. However, certainly with Sonic I can understand the appeal as it's so massive, I know it's me missing something rather than the games.
But, a series of Blue Hedgehog games does not a "Golden Era" make. Comix Zone I loved the idea of, and it was a great example of "rock hard and interesting" arcade games from the period, but these days it just doesn't really fit any more. It's the one game I keep on trying and trying to love, but keep on failing because I'm just so past "three lives to complete the entire game" now
Oh, and the only platinum trophy I have on the PS3 is from the Mega Drive collection, so I've not only played all those games, but played them enough to unlock all the trophies - hence validating my opinion
Also, Space Harrier on the Master System is the only game I ever completed on that console, I adore Out Run (all versions of it) and have a lot of respect for Sega as arcade game produces in the late 80's. They really broke boundaries and advanced gaming such a huge amount. However, while it was a Golden Age, it doesn't mean that the stuff still stacks up today. Afterburner is gorgeous (and was the first game to show off stereo sound by adding a 3.5mm headphone jack on the console, which was superb), but really boring. Out Run is finicky and sluggish. Altered Beast it cool, but dull (and sluggish). The Virtua Racer stuff is all great fun (including Seag Rally), but very lite on depth and actual content.
It's the one place Nintendo have always managed to perfect - depth. The games are all very simple to pick up mechanics wise, but add a lot of depth to the game (in terms of bonuses, secrets, little quirks here and there). Sega have always been "what you see in the first 2 minutes of game will be pretty much what you see right until the end, only BIGGER AND MORE EXPLOSIVE!!!". Brilliant for picking up in an arcade, or for back in the early 90's when it meant you could have an arcade game experience at home (with the time to keep on replaying and perfecting technique until you could crack it) - but today, it's just "meh". You play a quid's worth and move on.
It doesn't mean Sega haven't produced some brilliant games, and they were absolutely, massively influential. It's just that the majority of the back catalogue should remain there and in fact, they are still producing and releasing some very good games (Sonic All-Stars Racing being one).
I dislike platform games, so Sonic series and Ristar mean nothing to me. I've played them all, but I find them really dull. That's mainly because for a period in the early 90's, all that was released was platform games. Just endless wave after of Mario and Sonic wannabes. It was depressing. However, certainly with Sonic I can understand the appeal as it's so massive, I know it's me missing something rather than the games.
But, a series of Blue Hedgehog games does not a "Golden Era" make. Comix Zone I loved the idea of, and it was a great example of "rock hard and interesting" arcade games from the period, but these days it just doesn't really fit any more. It's the one game I keep on trying and trying to love, but keep on failing because I'm just so past "three lives to complete the entire game" now
Oh, and the only platinum trophy I have on the PS3 is from the Mega Drive collection, so I've not only played all those games, but played them enough to unlock all the trophies - hence validating my opinion
Also, Space Harrier on the Master System is the only game I ever completed on that console, I adore Out Run (all versions of it) and have a lot of respect for Sega as arcade game produces in the late 80's. They really broke boundaries and advanced gaming such a huge amount. However, while it was a Golden Age, it doesn't mean that the stuff still stacks up today. Afterburner is gorgeous (and was the first game to show off stereo sound by adding a 3.5mm headphone jack on the console, which was superb), but really boring. Out Run is finicky and sluggish. Altered Beast it cool, but dull (and sluggish). The Virtua Racer stuff is all great fun (including Seag Rally), but very lite on depth and actual content.
It's the one place Nintendo have always managed to perfect - depth. The games are all very simple to pick up mechanics wise, but add a lot of depth to the game (in terms of bonuses, secrets, little quirks here and there). Sega have always been "what you see in the first 2 minutes of game will be pretty much what you see right until the end, only BIGGER AND MORE EXPLOSIVE!!!". Brilliant for picking up in an arcade, or for back in the early 90's when it meant you could have an arcade game experience at home (with the time to keep on replaying and perfecting technique until you could crack it) - but today, it's just "meh". You play a quid's worth and move on.
It doesn't mean Sega haven't produced some brilliant games, and they were absolutely, massively influential. It's just that the majority of the back catalogue should remain there and in fact, they are still producing and releasing some very good games (Sonic All-Stars Racing being one).
EnigmaHyena
Hyper Poster
I do see what you mean, Wise Master Furie, perhaps I'd see it differently if I was a teen back then instead of the MD being my very first home console when I was le baby. Perhaps I've been blinded by nostalgia?
I still think many of the soundtracks have stood the test of time and still sound really cool today (Sonic 1 - 3&K and Ristar spring to mind), I personally think that was the main advantage it had over the then-rival SNES...it certainly had funkier music (although let's face it, when Michael Jackson was making the music for Sonic 3 there was never going to be competition). I also think their controls are great and still prove to be a tough challenge (perhaps moreso because of the unforgiving amount of lives and lack of a save feature so 'Game Over' actually meant you had to start from from the beginning).
I too have the Ultimate Collection for PS3 but can't see myself sitting through Alex Kidd to get the platinum trophy ha. So I take my hat off to you for that! I actually can't stand playing the games on Ultimate Collection though, Sega kind of screwed up the porting and some games are glitchy compared to the original version.
I just wish Sega didn't get cocky with their consoles...Dreamcast was way ahead of its time and broke the company, and they lost money with obscure consoles like the 32X and Saturn...who ACTUALLY bought those? Makes you wonder how different the games market would be if Sega still made consoles to compete with Sony and Nintendo.
Well, I'll take your word about Sega All Stars Racing and buy the new one when it comes out...a lot of people have said it's a definite MarioKart 7 beater. See you on the grid, I guess!
I still think many of the soundtracks have stood the test of time and still sound really cool today (Sonic 1 - 3&K and Ristar spring to mind), I personally think that was the main advantage it had over the then-rival SNES...it certainly had funkier music (although let's face it, when Michael Jackson was making the music for Sonic 3 there was never going to be competition). I also think their controls are great and still prove to be a tough challenge (perhaps moreso because of the unforgiving amount of lives and lack of a save feature so 'Game Over' actually meant you had to start from from the beginning).
I too have the Ultimate Collection for PS3 but can't see myself sitting through Alex Kidd to get the platinum trophy ha. So I take my hat off to you for that! I actually can't stand playing the games on Ultimate Collection though, Sega kind of screwed up the porting and some games are glitchy compared to the original version.
I just wish Sega didn't get cocky with their consoles...Dreamcast was way ahead of its time and broke the company, and they lost money with obscure consoles like the 32X and Saturn...who ACTUALLY bought those? Makes you wonder how different the games market would be if Sega still made consoles to compete with Sony and Nintendo.
Well, I'll take your word about Sega All Stars Racing and buy the new one when it comes out...a lot of people have said it's a definite MarioKart 7 beater. See you on the grid, I guess!
kimahri
CF Legend
Also Lemmings isn't a mega drive exclusive so you can't use that as an example, especially when it is an inferior port to the amiga master race.
also BLOPS2 Tomoz bruvs. Is gun be wul sik m8s. Alredy baged sum dosh from me ma for it! (True story cause my payday is on the 15th and I spent all my money already)
also BLOPS2 Tomoz bruvs. Is gun be wul sik m8s. Alredy baged sum dosh from me ma for it! (True story cause my payday is on the 15th and I spent all my money already)
Enigma Shadow said:
It's such a difficult thing to be honest. If you enjoy certain games, then that's fine :lol: It's not only nostalgia, you have to remember that the games you're talking about were played by tens of millions of people worldwide and founded the games industry we have today.
I think what I'm trying to say is that the world has moved on and in a very natural way. I used to play R-Type obsessively and could make my way through about five levels on a good day. That's three lives, two checkpoints per level (the start and halfway through) and no "select skill level". You spent hours upon hours learning the patterns and practising your movement while laying down ridiculous fire (no holding here, every shot made had to be a press of the button). You needed to know what weapons to use in which spot and how to release them. It was all done through repetition and slow learning. The deeper you get into the game, the harder the game gets and the longer it takes to learn (as each time you play, you need to go through all the prior levels again - so to get to level five, you're invested in about 30 minutes of tough gaming already).
It's what we played because it's what there was to play. Like platform games, there were hundreds of versions and copies and some outshone others. Some added in gameplay mechanisms that we still use today (things like Mario's Suits that alter the way you play the basic game, or buying specific weapons upgrades a la Blood Money or Xenon 2).
The problem is that things evolved. Games became less about an "arcade hit of adrenaline" and more about storytelling, or interesting mechanics. Designers offered a lot more in a game than repeating the same levels over and over in (pretty much) the same way that had been presented time and time again.
What interests me are the games that bucked the trend, but nobody ever really knows about.
Games like Dungeon Master and Stunt Car Racer. Both games that ate up massive amounts of time for millions, but have never left any real legacy.
Dungeon Master was superseded by first person games with real time movement (such as the Elder Scrolls games); or by third person RPG adventure games like the Ultima games or, eventually, Baldour's Gate type RPGs. Yet neither new "genre" replicates what made Dungeon Master so engrossing and fun to play. You can download a Java version of Dungeon Master, and I recommend that if you have any interest in "classic gaming" or RPGs that you do. Though also have a look somewhere for the original instructions, the spell casting system was superb, but you need to know what the runes mean before you can start creating your own spells (I know an air rune followed by a fire run created a fireball, but other than that, I couldn't say which rune was air and which one fire :lol: ).
Stunt Car Racer has never been replicated. It's such an oddity of a game. While it's a racing game, it's all about precision and control. It's very tough, but always fun. As a coaster enthusiast, if you've missed Stunt Car Racer (with tracks like "Big Dipper", you're really missing out. Absolute nails and there has never been another game that even comes close to the gameplay offered by it. There isn't even really any game that has arrived since that does what it did. There's a free version of it for Windows (based on the Amiga version) here:
http://stuntcarracerwin32.bravesites.com/
Then you have Lemmings which has already been mentioned by you (Fraser). A game utterly from the left field that (while it's spawned multiple conversations and iterations) is pretty much unique even today. The original Lemmings spawned a puzzle game genre that has never been bettered. The puzzles, the presentation and the "personality" of the game are all perfect. It's also the start of the "you don't have to keep on repeating things" philosophy.
It's worth noting that those three games, and probably the majority of games that actually "changed the world" are from home computers and not consoles. Consoles (with a few exceptions such as Zelda and MGS) were generally your home gateway to the world of the arcade. While home computers had their fair share of arcade conversations (the Spectrum versions of Donkey Kong and Mario Bros were superb), they generally remained the place that the creative mind stayed and developed games for.
Anyone could code for them, so they did. Nintendo and Sega were all about producing games that made you feed cash into a box and the Mega Drive era is the death knell of that kind of gaming (the repeat and rinse cycle kind of gaming).
That was why Sega fell into problems. They thought that all you needed to do was chuck in faster hardware to give the gamer a more pure arcade experience. In reality, the gamer was after the new way of gaming. Progression that is saved, story, the ability to stamp your personality onto a game, longevity where you don't need to do the same level over and over again. The PC led the way to be fair, but even consoles like the Atari Jaguar had games that understood this new evolution of gaming.
So Sega continued to try and sell arcade conversations while Sony came along with new hardware that allowed for much more complex games to be structured. Nintendo understood the change (probably down to the popularity of Zelda) and also made much better, deeper games at a time Sega were still trying to work out why nobody wanted their new arcade games in the home. The obvious high downfall was the Dreamcast, which was fantastic hardware, but without a good games base. There are a few classic Dreamcast games where Sega really showed they were getting the hang of things, but far too few to support the console against the Playstation which was storming ahead with a new set of wannabes (such as Spyro trying to take Super Mario 64's 3D platforming crown or Wipeout with an entire new "cool" approach to arcade racing). Sega were quite simply overwhelmed by a mass of new and innovative games coming from... Ex-home computer developers mostly.
There's also a degree of timing too I've discussed before, but Sega's writing was on the wall the moment they plumped for hardware over new gameplay.
The way I look at it is that the games of the Mega Drive era are like cartoons from the 40's/50's/60's. High quality, brilliant fun (particularly Chuck Jones and Friz Freleng), but ultimately all about some cartoon character hitting another one with something. It's simple slapstick (with occasional reaches of brilliant satire) for the most part. It's great to watch for those five minutes and there's nothing wrong with enjoying them
However, cartoons moved on, and we now have the quality of the likes of Pixar which are seen as much as adult entertainment and as valid a "full film" as anything else produced. You even have Manga where the adult is squarely targeted by the medium of cartoon. This is the equivalent of today's games.
Enigma Shadow said:
Sega certainly had some of the best music at the time. It was one area they seemed to really excel in, though again, it wasn't an area Nintendo got left behind on and they really understood the concept of dramatic soundtrack (again, while Sega was left with bit tunes and accompanying tracks).
Enigma Shadow said:
Yeah, some of the games were a real chore :lol:
Enigma Shadow said:
Yeah, covered above, but they couldn't compete and they knew it. They still had a market for their games (and still do), but not enough to sell hardware units as well. Unlike Nintendo who will actually sell millions of units on the back of a new Mario game.
Enigma Shadow said:
Pick up the original for a fiver instead? I've no idea if the new one will be any good - looks full of gimmicks.
Now I've written all that, the next few posts will be all about the latest rinse and repeat games that took over from R-Type and will likely be (unintentionally) no better than Kim's post above :lol:
Oooh, PS+ for Vita announced:
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2012/11/ ... ent-306135
In Europe it's Uncharted, Gravity Rush (a really weird Japanese adventure combat thing which is cool), Mutant Blobs (already own this and it's fab) and some turd ball game thing. Really good offering from Sony for a change, two of their biggest hitters for the Vita for free. US gets Wipeout, but hopefully we'll get that pretty soon as part of the EU plus anyway.
Still not sure the Vita is a worthwhile investment for everyone, but the plus service is a superb addition for those with a PS+ subscription and a Vita.
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2012/11/ ... ent-306135
In Europe it's Uncharted, Gravity Rush (a really weird Japanese adventure combat thing which is cool), Mutant Blobs (already own this and it's fab) and some turd ball game thing. Really good offering from Sony for a change, two of their biggest hitters for the Vita for free. US gets Wipeout, but hopefully we'll get that pretty soon as part of the EU plus anyway.
Still not sure the Vita is a worthwhile investment for everyone, but the plus service is a superb addition for those with a PS+ subscription and a Vita.
Jer
Strata Poster
So as I just found out I severely underrated Shadow of the Colossus. When I was young I tried it, passed it off as slow, impossible to play, hard, with no sign of what to do. But trying it again I've actually made it past the first one to say that the game is amazing. Everything about it is just over the top, the music, the scale of the colossi, and the visuals. I love it so much and i'm glad I gave it another try.
You and the rest of the world :lol:
Where is the last discount sign on Horizon??? Has anybody got all 100 without buying the treasure map? I've checked all the online maps and I've got every single one listed on them (checked three maps and they all match up to my map on the screen).
I'm wondering is there's a hidden one that only shows up when you get the treasure map. Likewise, it's not giving me the last barn find even though I've completed the rest of the game. I just need that last sign and the last barn - but can't get either. Shady as ****.
Where is the last discount sign on Horizon??? Has anybody got all 100 without buying the treasure map? I've checked all the online maps and I've got every single one listed on them (checked three maps and they all match up to my map on the screen).
I'm wondering is there's a hidden one that only shows up when you get the treasure map. Likewise, it's not giving me the last barn find even though I've completed the rest of the game. I just need that last sign and the last barn - but can't get either. Shady as ****.