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Small News From The Theme Park Industry

Something rather amazing dawned upon me… in spite of Wicked Twister often being dismissed and overshadowed as a “minor ride” within Cedar Point’s lineup when it operated, and people often thinking of it as small, it would be the tallest coaster in the UK by 2ft if it were in Britain, if using RCDB as a metric.

It really puts into perspective quite how nuts Cedar Point’s coaster lineup is when a ride that would be a major record breaker if situated here in the UK is seen as only a minor loss from Cedar Point’s lineup and skyline!
 
It would also be better than most of the coasters in the UK… I’d take it at Thorpe over Saw and Colossus any day.
 
Promisingly, Lightwater Valley was singled out by Brighton Pier Group as having performed “ahead of expectations” in 2021: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...PLO1MR29zT6dMiUghAHtxDd5wKh4g6NiOg3IG8SIU&s=1

No specific figures were given, but the group singled out Lightwater Valley as a star performer in their recent results reveal, where the group also revealed that their total sales were expected to be £22.7million, which is up by 177% on the same period in 2020 and even up 31% compared to pre-COVID levels in 2019.

Promising stuff, no? While it may not be the future that some desire, I do think Lightwater could have a promising future ahead of it within the next few years as they forge their new path of appealing to the under-10s!
 
That may seem promising initially, however bear in mind that's sales not profit.
So theoretically the actual figure they take away is far lower.

And how much to get the Ultimate fit again? Certainly millions.
I dunno... still not optimistic we'll see it return. Especially if kid-focus Lightwater is doing decently enough.
 
I’ve got a slightly controversial take; even if they could afford it, I’m not necessarily sure if returning The Ultimate would be in their best interests from a business perspective, as much as I and many others would love it from a coaster nostalgia and significance perspective.

I’m sure that there would be a fair few who’d go back if it did reopen (particularly in enthusiast circles), but I’m unsure if it would really be enough to make the inevitably huge investment required worthwhile. Also, the park has changed a fair amount since The Ultimate last operated; within the park’s current lineup, it would essentially be the sole non-kiddie ride, whereas even in 2019, the park did have a fair few sideliners in the thrill and family thrill departments that made it a little more fitting. These have now been removed, which would sadly leave The Ultimate as somewhat of an outlier if it were to reopen, and a somewhat confusing attraction within the park’s lineup. As significant as it would be compared to everything else, it would also be totally out of step with the rest of the park; it would be of no interest to the park’s core demographic, and those who would be interested in it would have absolutely nothing else to do at Lightwater now that all of the other vaguely thrilling rides have been removed.

As much as I’m not ruling out The Ultimate’s return by any stretch, and I’d love to see it come back, I think that from the park’s standpoint, there are more business-friendly places where the money could go that would both cost less on a per attraction basis and fit the park’s current agenda much better. In the mid to long term, I could see Lightwater Valley becoming something akin to the Yorkshire version of Sundown Adventureland, and I honestly think that would be a pretty good path for them to take, albeit a pretty uninteresting one for us enthusiasts and a sad one for those of us who want The Ultimate to return.

I’m not ruling out The Ultimate’s return; I certainly think it could happen! However, viewing it from a business perspective, I’m not sure that bringing it back would be viewed as the most sensible thing to do by the park’s higher-ups, even if it was technically doable. If it did come back, I should think that there would have to be a lot (and I mean a lot) of lust and passion for it to return from management and visitors alike to justify the spend to corporate.
 
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Matt N said:
I’ve got a slightly controversial take; even if they could afford it, I’m not necessarily sure if returning The Ultimate would be in their best interests from a business perspective, as much as I and many others would love it from a coaster nostalgia and significance perspective.

I’m sure that there would be a fair few who’d go back if it did reopen (particularly in enthusiast circles), but I’m unsure if it would really be enough to make the inevitably huge investment required worthwhile. Also, the park has changed a fair amount since The Ultimate last operated; within the park’s current lineup, it would essentially be the sole non-kiddie ride, whereas even in 2019, the park did have a fair few sideliners in the thrill and family thrill departments that made it a little more fitting. These have now been removed, which would sadly leave The Ultimate as somewhat of an outlier if it were to reopen, and a somewhat confusing attraction within the park’s lineup. As significant as it would be compared to everything else, it would also be totally out of step with the rest of the park; it would be of no interest to the park’s core demographic, and those who would be interested in it would have absolutely nothing else to do at Lightwater now that all of the other vaguely thrilling rides have been removed.

As much as I’m not ruling out The Ultimate’s return by any stretch, and I’d love to see it come back, I think that from the park’s standpoint, there are more business-friendly places where the money could go that would both cost less on a per attraction basis and fit the park’s current agenda much better. In the mid to long term, I could see Lightwater Valley becoming something akin to the Yorkshire version of Sundown Adventureland, and I honestly think that would be a pretty good path for them to take, albeit a pretty uninteresting one for us enthusiasts and a sad one for those of us who want The Ultimate to return.

I’m not ruling out The Ultimate’s return; I certainly think it could happen! However, viewing it from a business perspective, I’m not sure that bringing it back would be viewed as the most sensible thing to do by the park’s higher-ups, even if it was technically doable. If it did come back, I should think that there would have to be a lot (and I mean a lot) of lust and passion for it to return from management and visitors alike to justify the spend to corporate.
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Please please please start adding TLDRs to your extended answer posts. With all due respect, I literally cannot be arsed to read all of that even though I appreciate you taking the time to post your thought and opinions.
 
Matt N said:
I’ve got a slightly controversial take; even if they could afford it, I’m not necessarily sure if returning The Ultimate would be in their best interests from a business perspective, as much as I and many others would love it from a coaster nostalgia and significance perspective.

I’m sure that there would be a fair few who’d go back if it did reopen (particularly in enthusiast circles), but I’m unsure if it would really be enough to make the inevitably huge investment required worthwhile. Also, the park has changed a fair amount since The Ultimate last operated; within the park’s current lineup, it would essentially be the sole non-kiddie ride, whereas even in 2019, the park did have a fair few sideliners in the thrill and family thrill departments that made it a little more fitting. These have now been removed, which would sadly leave The Ultimate as somewhat of an outlier if it were to reopen, and a somewhat confusing attraction within the park’s lineup. As significant as it would be compared to everything else, it would also be totally out of step with the rest of the park; it would be of no interest to the park’s core demographic, and those who would be interested in it would have absolutely nothing else to do at Lightwater now that all of the other vaguely thrilling rides have been removed.

As much as I’m not ruling out The Ultimate’s return by any stretch, and I’d love to see it come back, I think that from the park’s standpoint, there are more business-friendly places where the money could go that would both cost less on a per attraction basis and fit the park’s current agenda much better. In the mid to long term, I could see Lightwater Valley becoming something akin to the Yorkshire version of Sundown Adventureland, and I honestly think that would be a pretty good path for them to take, albeit a pretty uninteresting one for us enthusiasts and a sad one for those of us who want The Ultimate to return.

I’m not ruling out The Ultimate’s return; I certainly think it could happen! However, viewing it from a business perspective, I’m not sure that bringing it back would be viewed as the most sensible thing to do by the park’s higher-ups, even if it was technically doable. If it did come back, I should think that there would have to be a lot (and I mean a lot) of lust and passion for it to return from management and visitors alike to justify the spend to corporate.
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100% agree with this, even reluctantly agreeing with the sad parts that there's still a nonzero chance the ride never reopens. The park's decision to sharply decide "we are now for under twelves" out of left field is highly questionable. I'm really not entirely sure why they did it, and with every single major ride gone they've just kind of left Ultimate in the dust. If Ultimate were to reopen, it would end up being a pretty considerably adult attraction in a park that's now aimed at children. And that doesn't look good for the ride's popularity as it would quickly become incredibly difficult for Ultimate fans to justify spending more than two hours at the park now.

I understand that Brighton Pier Group hadn't yet bought Lightwater Valley when the decision was made to kid-ify the park. But now the new owners are kind of stranded with a newly rebranded park with one single ride that's so far out of the new target audience it's pretty sad. Future might not be good for it because of this. So what could be done to save Ultimate?

For Ultimate to be viable here's a couple suggestions from a guy that has absolutely zero experience in business and economics... A) reinstate large thrill rides so it's easier for adults to justify a trip to the park for Ultimate, dropping the new "it's for kids" rebrand entirely; B) reopen Ultimate as kind of its own separate thing, perhaps Ultimate can be sold as an upcharge attraction or separate from the park entirely; or C) do nothing and hope for the miracle that the ride remains popular with the under twelves rebrand remaining untouched.

Brighton Pier Group is in an incredibly difficult situation right now. However, with the park apparently proving to still be highly popular without Ultimate (I do wish RideRater cited their sources), the future looks bleak for the ride and I'm regrettably starting to have doubts on its future. But I'm going to stay positive. I will ride Ultimate.

I wouldn't mind Ultimate becoming an upcharge if it meant saving the ride, though if this leads to low popularity as a result then it can spell disaster even if you make £100 a train (a theoretical £4 charge and I think the train is just shy of thirty riders).

And a quick side note... Anyone notice how Lightwater's new slogan is something along the lines of "The Ultimate Adventure"? Interesting...
 
Finances shminances, I want my Ultimate!!

CrashCoaster said:
Please please please start adding TLDRs to your extended answer posts. With all due respect, I literally cannot be arsed to read all of that
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I'm sure this wasn't your intention, but that makes you sound like a dick - and now in turn *I* sound like a dick for telling you off - but Matt's sensitive enough about his posting style.
You can see how long the post is before you start reading just as easily as I can :)
 
I do apologise for the post length; I often get somewhat carried away when writing, and I’m not naturally a concise, snappy writer. As requested, I’ve tried to condense my post into fewer words;
TL;DR: As much as I’d like to see The Ultimate return, I’m not sure it would be the move that would make the most sense for the park from a business perspective. The amount of money required would be monstrously high on a per-attraction basis, and it would also be somewhat of an outlier within the park’s present lineup and brand now that they’re targeted towards the under-12s. So while I’m not ruling it out by any means, I think there would be better ways they could use the money that would cost less on a per-attraction basis and add far more value to the park under its present agenda.

I know it’s not that concise, but I hope it’s short enough for you all to understand my basic point.

Out of interest, at what sort of post length should I think about putting in a TL;DR? For reference, the fuller post I did above was 431 words in length, and should take 1 minute 34 seconds to read according to WordCounter.net, and the infamous super-long post I did in the Exodus thread that one time was 1,600 words in length and should take about 7 minutes to read (I’ll admit that one was somewhat epic… I really rambled there, didn’t I?).
 
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Matt N said:
Out of interest, at what sort of post length should I think about putting in a TL;DR? For reference, the fuller post I did above was 431 words in length, and should take 1 minute 34 seconds to read according to WordCounter.net, and the infamous super-long post I did in the Exodus thread that one time was 1,600 words in length and should take about 7 minutes to read (I’ll admit that one was somewhat epic… I really rambled there, didn’t I?).
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Don't sweat it. If people don't wanna read, they don't have to. :)
 
Hixee said:
Don't sweat it. If people don't wanna read, they don't have to. :)
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@Matt N Above is exactly what I was going to say, I rarely read long posts as I have a very, very short attention span, but that's my choice. If posting that way is your style and you enjoy it mate go for it. Clearly a lot of people like what you write on here and appreciate your opinion so do what you want.
 
Munchy Road Hippopotamus said:
If posting that way is your style and you enjoy it mate go for it.
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I have a problem in which I tend to get wordy or don't communicate points quickly enough in writing. Think its been more than a few occasions that I've edited my posts on here several times after posting just to condense stuff. That to is a personal choice however, and I enjoy reading good rants with good content. @Matt N knows his stuff, to.
 
Hehehe, I like that @Matt N has learned sarcasm and sass ;)

And yeah, don't sweat it - I've often been told off for using a hundred words where one would almost certainly be perfectly adequate suffice.
 
Will said:
Hehehe, I like that @Matt N has learned sarcasm and sass ;)
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My post (the most recent one with the TL;DR) wasn’t sarcastic. What bit of it did you think was?

I meant every word of what I said, and anything that could be construed as sarcastic most definitely wasn’t, just to clear that up. I was merely asking what sort of post length and reading time is considered acceptable without a TL;DR so that I know when to provide one, and I used WordCounter values from my existing posts to provide a point of reference.

Helpful rule of thumb for my posts; if ever you think something I’ve said is sarcastic, just assume it’s not unless I tell you otherwise.
 
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