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SFMM | West Coast Racers | Premier Quad Launch Möbius Sky Rocket

John Knotts said:
LOL... Your friends planning a trip to CP isn't going to sure up their flat attendance. Their new attraction is failing... Period. Just because you're a fan or not a fan of an addition doesn't guarantee its success or failure .. Come on.

You're the one with a singular narrative .. If you don't like a ride choice, no one else is allowed to like it either. That narrative means a hill of beans to SFMM, who know their audience far better than you or I.
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I mean, I literally planned a trip with my boyfriend out for the Canfield Fair, and made a dedicated day strictly for Cedar Point. I have coworkers that have made trips out to Cedar Point for said ride as well. Did I mention I live in Phoenix, a rough 7 or so hrs away from SFMM, and there are people flying out to Ohio for a ride? Yeah, doesnt add up. On top of the weather being abnormally hot, theyve also had tons rain that has also affected attendence. But yeah, SV is failing the park and not drawing in the crowds AT all.

As for the comparissons.....am I the only one that noticed the two loops with airtime hills directly ontop, kinda similar to another ride in the park? If the GP dont see those and get confused as to why there is a smaller Full Throttle not that far away from the bigger (and thus better in their eyes) version, then they arent the GP. The ride offers nothing new to the park, and is just a ride added in to make another notch on their belt to keep up the claim of having the most coasters in the park. Also, LOL at Full Throttle being the first launch coaster at Magic Mountain - is Superman really that forgotten?

Now, am I saying that the ride will be bad? Not at all, it looks fun and Id be glad to give it a couple whirls if it has surprising moments of forces; however, it wont be something that makes me flock to the park next year cause "ZOMG, NEW COASTER AT SFMM".


Also, I expect Xzibit to be there at park opening talking about how you like a launch coaster, so they added another launch onto their new launch coaster to make it better in some manner.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
Ireeb said:
Coming in here for to see if there is any new info on this coaster, just find whole novels of pointless offtopic discussions, with the arguments repeating every second post. Good stuff.
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Right...it's dumb. The coaster is getting built, like it or not. Some people like it, other do not. What else is new?
 
Sorry, I wasn't aware how important repetitive forum arguments are, especially when they are just remotely connected to the topic. Is this what would make people want to join? 1% information and 99% hot air?
 
Just my humble opinion as a complete outsider who has never been to SFMM, I don't think it looks too similar to Full Throttle or Twisted Colossus at all.

Sure it races and it's another Premier Rides coaster, but the layout is completely different and nothing like either FT or TC.

It's not gonna blow people away but it'll be super fun :)
 
The color scheme looks like ****. I actually think I’d be a tad more excited if the white track was blue or red, but white paired next to yellow looks incredibly bland.
 
What did people expect SFMM to add this year? and out of interest what do people think SFMM could have added that wouldn't get negative responses like this?

Bearing in mind the modern day budgets of SF so there isn't going to be a huge B&M Dive or Giga and no Intamin Strata. I mean they have almost everything else already.

I struggle to think of something they could have added that wouldn't have caused this.
Among things they don't have Mack extreme spinner would have got negative reactions for a whole other set of reasons not least because it's not the marquee kind of ride people seem to be expecting. Their main competition just added a beyond vertical coaster so that wasn't going to happen. Spikes and Steeplechases would have got the same this isn't what SFMM is about reaction and would be way worse rides than this anyway.

Perhaps the only thing I can think would have gone over well is something like firechaser express for the families.
 
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roomraider said:
What did people really exoect SFMM to add this year? and out of interest what do people think SFMM could have added that wouldn't get negative responses like this?

Bearing in mind the modern day budgets of SF so there isn't going to be a huge B&M Dive or Giga and no Intamin Strata. I mean they have almost everything else already.

I struggle to think of something they could have added that wouldn't have caused this.
Among things they don't have Mack extreme spinner would have got negative reactions for a whole other set of reasons not least because it's not the marquee kind of ride people seem to be expecting. Their main competition just added a beyond vertical coaster so that wasn't going to happen. Spikes and Steeplechases would have got the same this isn't what SFMM is about reaction and would be way worse rides than this anyway.

Perhaps the only thing I can think would have gone over well is something like firechaser express for the families.
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There is no shame in taking your goddamn time. The negative responses are caused by Magic Mountain's rush to build it's 20th rollercoaster before Cedar Point steals the show entirely next year. Even though the relationship with RMC has cooled down a little bit, who would have seriously complained if they didn't add anything this year, but instead opted for a T-Rex in 2020?

It's not about the addition in itself. It's also that this is going to be the one coaster MM is going to get within this 4-5 year cycle, so even Twisted Colossus will be 8-9 years old once Magic Mountain will get the next actually big investment. This park is living on it's legacy from the 90s and early 2000s, and yes, for the time being it is working very well. But at ton of rides will turn 20 or 30 years old during the next decade, and they are not doing a good job at all in preparing for the era when most of their big rides will have crossed the zenith of both reliability and visitor attraction.

You can go on and on about Valravn and Gatekeeper being mediocre and not all that great, but they are Cedar Point's bread and butter for the next 30 years. They are the solid base that is going to shoulder the next few record-breaking rides in the future, just like Steel Vengance was only possible because of the B&M people eaters that keep the cash flowing. None of the rides Magic Mountain has added during the past 10 years is capable of providing any of that, except for Twisted Colossus and that already was a remake, meaning: it was based on capital that the park already had. See where this is going?

It almost feels like they really want the 20 coasters now because Six Flags is already predicting that this is the one and only time window where it will actually be possible for MM, and that it's total coaster count will rather decrease than increase over the next 10-15 years. Even if they manage to maintain it, they will mainly do it by adding small to medium sized coasters all over the place, just like they have been doing in the past 10 years already.

Because honestly. Who would give a **** about 20 coasters if it wasn't for X2, Tatsu, Twisted Colossus, heck even Scream and Riddler's Revenge being included with that? The Magic in Magic Mountain comes from what these 20 coasters are, not just that it has 20.
 
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Thats fair enough reasoning. And well laid out. Didnt think about a T-Rex although with the issues RMC are having this year I wouldnt be surprised if we dont see another RMC in the USA for a few years. There is a reason SF didnt get any Skywarps this year and its not to do with skylines parts.
However thats an aside.

What do you mean about CP stealing the show next year though? Coaster numbers wise SFMM is top on 19 coasters right? and CP is joint second on 17? They'd have to build 3 to take the 20. (I may be missing something here it wouldnt be the first time)

I agree with SFMM falling behind in terms of quality and they will suffer in the future but SF in general has given up on the major coaster thing for a while. I was told the other day the last coaster that SF added with a proper midcourse brake run (excluding NTG which already had one) was 2004 with Superman in Mexico. And with that level of investment across the board not just at SFMM they just arent going to get the investment and big rides people want and the decline is inevitable. To me it just seems there is a big gap in what coaster enthusiasts want SF to do at MM and what they were ever going to do. The big new marquee coaster days are over and have been for a while I feel.
 
Cedar Point and Magic Mountain are not competitors. They just happen to be large parks with rollercoaster counts exceeding 15. If Cedar Point is worried about any Six Flags park, it’s Great America as they’ve stated they’d like to get into the Chicago market.

Has Magic Mountain conditioned their guests to expect large, record-breaking coasters just as Cedar Point has? Arguably, yes. Is that due to the desire to compete with Cedar Point? Well, when your park is over 2000 miles away and separated by two time zones, the answer is no.
 
John Knotts said:
LOL... Your friends planning a trip to CP isn't going to sure up their flat attendance. Their new attraction is failing... Period. Just because you're a fan or not a fan of an addition doesn't guarantee its success or failure .. Come on.

You're the one with a singular narrative .. If you don't like a ride choice, no one else is allowed to like it either. That narrative means a hill of beans to SFMM, who know their audience far better than you or I.
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John.. you aren't a big fan of reading the whole statement are you? Go ahead and read the whole thing again and feel free to hit me back.

Ireeb said:
Coming in here for to see if there is any new info on this coaster, just find whole novels of pointless offtopic discussions, with the arguments repeating every second post. Good stuff.
Click to expand...

I mean.. this is a forum? Arguments happen, many times with pointless fluff with two people with differing opinions that sometimes one or both are just blowing smoke up some ass. I'd rather see that, interject a point or two and maybe join in the argument to see if common sense can prevail or something can be learned rather then just not post at all. Forums are dying breeds on the internet, ESPECIALLY in the enthusiast community.

I'd rather see a page or two of the discussion John and I had, which was based off of valid but differing points related to the new coaster, then nothing but smeared lipstick on the ass of this coaster.

roomraider said:
What did people expect SFMM to add this year? and out of interest what do people think SFMM could have added that wouldn't get negative responses like this?

Bearing in mind the modern day budgets of SF so there isn't going to be a huge B&M Dive or Giga and no Intamin Strata. I mean they have almost everything else already.

I struggle to think of something they could have added that wouldn't have caused this.
Among things they don't have Mack extreme spinner would have got negative reactions for a whole other set of reasons not least because it's not the marquee kind of ride people seem to be expecting. Their main competition just added a beyond vertical coaster so that wasn't going to happen. Spikes and Steeplechases would have got the same this isn't what SFMM is about reaction and would be way worse rides than this anyway.

Perhaps the only thing I can think would have gone over well is something like firechaser express for the families.
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I'll be honest roomie, I definitely expected more. Yeah, I wasn't expecting something world beating or another RMC or a strata, I'm realistic, but something unique to be honest. And you're right, this is SFMM, so people expect world beater but when you brand yourself as "world beater" and you don't live up to it, won't most, if not everything be a failure in the eyes of many, especially enthusiasts?

And I do think something more along the lines of something similar to Firechaser or something like that. A solid mid-level ACTUAL family ride that is actually pretty damn good all things considered as Firechaser is one of my favorite mid-level creations out there. I think those who wanted a Raptor or RMC or Strata may have been disappointed but logically, had they did firechaser, people may not have been over the moon but many would have seen the logic.
 
Snoo said:
John.. you aren't a big fan of reading the whole statement are you? Go ahead and read the whole thing again and feel free to hit me back.



I mean.. this is a forum? Arguments happen, many times with pointless fluff with two people with differing opinions that sometimes one or both are just blowing smoke up some ass. I'd rather see that, interject a point or two and maybe join in the argument to see if common sense can prevail or something can be learned rather then just not post at all. Forums are dying breeds on the internet, ESPECIALLY in the enthusiast community.

I'd rather see a page or two of the discussion John and I had, which was based off of valid but differing points related to the new coaster, then nothing but smeared lipstick on the ass of this coaster.



I'll be honest roomie, I definitely expected more. Yeah, I wasn't expecting something world beating or another RMC or a strata, I'm realistic, but something unique to be honest. And you're right, this is SFMM, so people expect world beater but when you brand yourself as "world beater" and you don't live up to it, won't most, if not everything be a failure in the eyes of many, especially enthusiasts?

And I do think something more along the lines of something similar to Firechaser or something like that. A solid mid-level ACTUAL family ride that is actually pretty damn good all things considered as Firechaser is one of my favorite mid-level creations out there. I think those who wanted a Raptor or RMC or Strata may have been disappointed but logically, had they did firechaser, people may not have been over the moon but many would have seen the logic.
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If this had been a Firechaser part 2, I would be jumping for joy and ecstatic for it. That ride is fantabulous.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
roomraider said:
I agree with SFMM falling behind in terms of quality and they will suffer in the future but SF in general has given up on the major coaster thing for a while. I was told the other day the last coaster that SF added with a proper midcourse brake run (excluding NTG which already had one) was 2004 with Superman in Mexico.
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I know I've said it before, but I found it mind-boggling enough to say it again: All the four coasters Six Flags added in 2006 alone were both taller and longer than any coaster they have built from the ground up since.

Still... I think people could reasonably have expected a big-ish thrill coaster at Magic Mountain this year. Something on the scale of Scream, Tatsu or Riddler, something imposing against the skyline, with a high top speed and many inversions, not necessarily breaking any records, but at least the 30 m tall/100 km/h fast barrier. As Fluorineer said above, Magic Mountain is lacking in new "back bone" coasters, ones whose inclusion in the lineup will make the park an attractive destination 10-15 years from now. They need something that will wow guests, not just provide something to do that wasn't there last time they visited. When the big Beemers finally wear out their tracks, it'll be a little too late to start thinking of new rides to stand in their stead. Unless they want Magic Mountain to age into a park of much smaller gimmick coasters, they have to build headliner coasters sometime soon again, and it was disappointing not to see them do it this year.
 
Pokemaniac said:
I know I've said it before, but I found it mind-boggling enough to say it again: All the four coasters Six Flags added in 2006 alone were both taller and longer than any coaster they have built from the ground up since.

Still... I think people could reasonably have expected a big-ish thrill coaster at Magic Mountain this year. Something on the scale of Scream, Tatsu or Riddler, something imposing against the skyline, with a high top speed and many inversions, not necessarily breaking any records, but at least the 30 m tall/100 km/h fast barrier. As Fluorineer said above, Magic Mountain is lacking in new "back bone" coasters, ones whose inclusion in the lineup will make the park an attractive destination 10-15 years from now. They need something that will wow guests, not just provide something to do that wasn't there last time they visited. When the big Beemers finally wear out their tracks, it'll be a little too late to start thinking of new rides to stand in their stead. Unless they want Magic Mountain to age into a park of much smaller gimmick coasters, they have to build headliner coasters sometime soon again, and it was disappointing not to see them do it this year.
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I think that may be something that may plague the chain down the road as well, not just SFMM. You can see them reinforcing their flat ride lineup with the exhaustive supply of loopers and swings but for many parks, that won't last long. In contrast, most of Cedar Fair has been investing in said Beemers that will be around for a hot minute. Arrows will only last so long.
 
Yes, Forums are for discussions as well. But seeing the same 2 or 3 guys chatting with each other is not what I'm here for, since it added nothing to the topic, no meaningful conclusion or additional info. While CF was the first coaster forum I joined, I see myself more often on coasterfriends.de, because, while there are also discussions, they are not multiple pages long and there is just a much higher amout of information and news. An option would be to have separate news and discussion threads, which I often see in German coaster forums on topics that cause a lot of discussion. Especially in this case, maybe a thread about Six Flags' situation and direction they are going at would be a good place to discuss it.
In no way I want to mute anyone, but as I said, when I go to a construction thread, I want to learn about the progress of the coaster, maybe some speculation on it. But that's just my opinion.
I am reluctant to even write this post, because it doesn't belong here either.
 
Ireeb said:
Coming in here for to see if there is any new info on this coaster, just find whole novels of pointless offtopic discussions, with the arguments repeating every second post. Good stuff.
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That’s the fun part.:D
 
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Ireeb said:
Yes, Forums are for discussions as well. But seeing the same 2 or 3 guys chatting with each other is not what I'm here for, since it added nothing to the topic, no meaningful conclusion or additional info. While CF was the first coaster forum I joined, I see myself more often on coasterfriends.de, because, while there are also discussions, they are not multiple pages long and there is just a much higher amout of information and news. An option would be to have separate news and discussion threads, which I often see in German coaster forums on topics that cause a lot of discussion. Especially in this case, maybe a thread about Six Flags' situation and direction they are going at would be a good place to discuss it.
In no way I want to mute anyone, but as I said, when I go to a construction thread, I want to learn about the progress of the coaster, maybe some speculation on it. But that's just my opinion.
I am reluctant to even write this post, because it doesn't belong here either.
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To be fair, since nothing has been done since the announcement really, the on/off topic discussion isn't a huge problem to have unless say it was mid winter and that slutfest went back and forth. I completely see where you're coming from and agree to a point. A new topic may have been warranted but CF has kinda always been like this to be honest. Seeing some folks slugging it out on mostly related topic is how I learned most of my knowledge regarding the industry. Albeit, those people were much smarter and intelligent conversation then what has been discussed previously, I get it. Personally, as long as the topic is related in some capacity to the topic at hand, it never bothers me as it can foster new and interesting information that may not have come up otherwise. Of course, if its just dumb.. then it should be cut short. :p

And don't worry about it, you're fleshing out your thoughts in a topic that, short of some back and forth, would be dead for the most part anyway.
 
Given what SF has added as a chain this year, I'm wondering what the folks upset about WCR would have switched with? One of the Super Loops? The Free Fly? Another record breaking swing ride? Ooooo...I got it! The indoor Cyborg ride that SFNE got!
 
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