Overrated parks
- Thread starter balrog
- Start date
I never wanted to imply that EP had no vegetation. That is obviously not true.
I do still believe the whole park looks quite uninspired. Everything is definitely very well made and tended. But it seldom feels like an artistic expression, a result of human creativity. And it does not look like a wild forest either. It often looks like a good looking urban park from some nice looking European city where the urbanism, architecture and landscaping is more of a textbook application of the predominant style of this time/region than the work of some creative genius.
It does not make it any bad, not at all. Just a bit insipid and tame.
The one thing that made Europa Park loose my support is the queue lines from SiSta and Blue Fire. You can call me a leftist, but I really don't think it is acceptable to force the guest to go through a large scale advert where they are surrounded by giant marketing elements for half an hour in order to access a roller coaster. It is even worst considering it is ads for high fuel consumption, gasoline powered cars and fossil fuel energy production at the very time when humanity has to start ditching those to ensure its long-term well being.
I do still believe the whole park looks quite uninspired. Everything is definitely very well made and tended. But it seldom feels like an artistic expression, a result of human creativity. And it does not look like a wild forest either. It often looks like a good looking urban park from some nice looking European city where the urbanism, architecture and landscaping is more of a textbook application of the predominant style of this time/region than the work of some creative genius.
It does not make it any bad, not at all. Just a bit insipid and tame.
The one thing that made Europa Park loose my support is the queue lines from SiSta and Blue Fire. You can call me a leftist, but I really don't think it is acceptable to force the guest to go through a large scale advert where they are surrounded by giant marketing elements for half an hour in order to access a roller coaster. It is even worst considering it is ads for high fuel consumption, gasoline powered cars and fossil fuel energy production at the very time when humanity has to start ditching those to ensure its long-term well being.
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SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
The problem here is that when I say literally anything I assume that those reading it understand that nothing is black and white.
To elaborate on why mundane places make terrible themes... They're mundane.
Now that we've got that out of the way, let's explain why DBGT having "more to it" than a simple simulation of the London Underground is irrelevant within the context of this discussion, which is "Europa park's themed facades are mundane to its predominantly European audience and this is bad."
DBGT's exterior and queue doesn't have "more to it". It is mundane. And that's what guests see from the outside, that's what sets the mood, that's what conveys what the rest of the experience is about. And that's really important... Ya know how the Little Mermaid ride at the Magic Kingdom and California Adventure is received completely differently because the latter has no exterior theming? So fewer people queue for it, but more people think it's pretty good than the Orlando counterpart, where the queue is always long but people get off disappointed. Europa Park has pretty, well executed and most importantly well designed, but ultimately bland exterior environments. Maybe this helps people think Europa's assortment of just-ok rides are better than they are, who knows.
And, the other thing about DBGT having "more to it" is that narratively, it's not taking a regular experience and turning it into something scary. You're not at any point expected to believe you're boarding a normal train, they actually try to convey the opposite, then the experience takes place on a normal train. The mundane environment only exists because it is cheaper to represent. It's why they love these warehouse themes, it's why there are shipping containers everywhere, it's why nothing is exotic. And this would be fine if it was hidden well amongst good environmental storytelling and an understand that truly unpleasant environments (like Smiler's or Saw's queue) are never, ever a good thing to expose people to for extended periods.
I, personally... In my opinion, think bland environments are never as good as exotic ones when compared like for like. It's why I prefer IOA to Studios. It's why Phantasialand is so appealing. It's why you walk past the USA in Epcot's World Showcase and your brain literally goes "this is the default, what is it meant to be?" or why bland American accents feel normal in film and you notice any divergent from them. That's not to say bland environments are never appropriate - they absolutely have a place, especially as entry port worlds and the like, but they MUST have something that makes them hyperreal. That makes them more impressive, more ornate, more scary, more fun, more dramatic, more colourful, whatever. than the real world ever is. My memory of Europa, and most of the photos I see of the place is of too clean, too pristine but ultimately too bland architecture that might as well have been real. That doesn't mean ALL of Europa is like that, just that a lot of it is. Because it is. Ben's comment about how every land is set in a past time period doesn't truly cut it imo, because the result is still a world that looks so much like Europe does in real life, today... Just cleaner. I'm kinda dying to get back to Europa, because it'll have been 10 years by the time I return and I need to put my criticisms to the test. The reality is that Europa Park is a very, very, very high-quality park and that's why it gets "overrated". This is a park that operates exceptionally, spends a lot of money making it's environments beautiful and keeping them that way, but I don't care for the thematic choices and believe there are objectively better choices. Here's a photo I took in 2008 of a building that, were it at Busch Williamsburg, I'd clap my hands at. But at a German theme park I wonder what the point of it is.
And for the record, haunted houses wouldn't work if they looked like my house.
Ya know, Europa is a bit like this painting by Pedros Campos. It's ****ing amazing but, other than a display of skill in mimicry, what's the point of it? It's like a photo, but it's a little too perfect and it offers nothing the photograph he worked from couldn't.
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zazobo
Hyper Poster
What... like Ferrari Land @ PA? Europe's biggest advert?
HeartlineCoaster
Theme Park Superhero
That's a shame. The queue advertising doesn't bother me at all, as I'm not in the market for an F1 car or a large quantity of gaz.
I like the Blue Fire queue/area, it's quite interesting and also very visually pleasing in the outdoor bit.
The indoor queue bit relevant to the company is a tiny proportion and you'd never be in there for half an hour.
I had a little bit of fun playing a game on an interactive screen in the building next door and as far as I can remember it was mildly educational. For shame.
It's also a total ghost town in there, no one has any reason to go in. I think it's a conference centre or something, so completely irrelevant to guests.
I don't like the Silver Star queue/area, but it's probably quite cool for fans of that stuff.
Ride on, Silver Star.
But you are in the market for entertainment, and for home heating/electricity - as we all are. This is what these ads aim at : To entertain a social climate where those things of the past are still relevant. They target the base consumer, the everyday man. Nobody is buying Mercedes Benz F1 cars, they have their own team. But by promoting the F1, and associating Mercedes cars and the sounf of internal combustion engines with thrill, they help to ensure that people still want their petrol cars.
Blue fire queue line aims at showing that natural gas is cool, while embedding ot in a high tech/futuristic setting, so that you associate methane with the future and see it as something positive. At least it is not promoting coal, but it is still pretty bad.
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HeartlineCoaster
Theme Park Superhero
Neither of those things have stuck in my mind after a visit to Europa.
It isn't about sticking it onto the forefront of everyone's mind. It is about keeping it alive within the collective unconscious. That is how adverting works (or at least certain forms of it). If you were stuck with every ads you see in your mind, you wouldn't even be able go to the movie or use the internet without going insane.
You really don't have a clue, do you balrog?
And Joey, you're basically talking out your arse as well here - maybe go back to the park and stop looking at pictures to form an opinion?
And if you genuinely think any part of Europa looks anything like their modern real life counterparts, you need to get yourself a trip to Specsavers.
EDIT: Watch those insults! Hixee
And Joey, you're basically talking out your arse as well here - maybe go back to the park and stop looking at pictures to form an opinion?
And if you genuinely think any part of Europa looks anything like their modern real life counterparts, you need to get yourself a trip to Specsavers.
EDIT: Watch those insults! Hixee
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Ben, is insulting others the only contribution you can make to the thread ? That's just great.
It is not about what it is themed about, it is about how is the theming executed. Tou don't understand our arguments because you misonterpret them. It is not about looking contemporary v. historic. It's Europe here, there are well preserved historic neighbourhoods everywhere. And I love contemporary architecture anyway, so it wouldn't be the issue for me. And we do not say EP theming is plain bad anyway, so why are you even getting so pissed?
It is about blandness, the lack of imagination and creativity within the theming, that undermine the feeling of exoticity, the sensation of being,surrounded by something different that what you already know.
Now, if you were personaly blown away by this park, I'm glad for you. It's a good looking park with a few nice rides. I'm not going to treat you as an idiot for that.
EDIT : Remember that the thread is called "overrated parks", not "bad parks".
It is not about what it is themed about, it is about how is the theming executed. Tou don't understand our arguments because you misonterpret them. It is not about looking contemporary v. historic. It's Europe here, there are well preserved historic neighbourhoods everywhere. And I love contemporary architecture anyway, so it wouldn't be the issue for me. And we do not say EP theming is plain bad anyway, so why are you even getting so pissed?
It is about blandness, the lack of imagination and creativity within the theming, that undermine the feeling of exoticity, the sensation of being,surrounded by something different that what you already know.
Now, if you were personaly blown away by this park, I'm glad for you. It's a good looking park with a few nice rides. I'm not going to treat you as an idiot for that.
EDIT : Remember that the thread is called "overrated parks", not "bad parks".
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SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Lol whatever Ben. If you don't want to discuss, then don't, don't throw insults around and be so spitefully flippant. I know that's your style, but since you gave my style no respect I won't offer the same. :emoji_kissing_heart:
I didn't realise we weren't allowed to have opinions of something unless we'd done it recently. Can we get an official cut off time frame? I've "admitted" over and over that it's been a while and I need to get back to the park, so you pointing it out with flippant aggression as if you've found the ultimate flaw in my argument really isn't necessary...
I didn't realise we weren't allowed to have opinions of something unless we'd done it recently. Can we get an official cut off time frame? I've "admitted" over and over that it's been a while and I need to get back to the park, so you pointing it out with flippant aggression as if you've found the ultimate flaw in my argument really isn't necessary...
I don't know what else you two want from me - we tried to explain it to you, we tried to reason with you, but you have fundamentally missed how the park is themed.
What you're arguing isn't opinion, it's actually fact - ie., Europa is only themed to present day (wrong), it does not have trees (wrong), it is all grounded in reality (wrong). Even in balrog's latest post he states he's surrounded by stuff he's used to - like space travel, and pirates, and Gods, and legends, and myths. Just all part of your day to day life, sure.
There's no point trying to discuss it further with you two because you're entirely and fundamentally wrong and are just stubbornly standing by it.
But yeah, cool, make it all about how I'm oh so mean to you rather than the fact you've just exhausted anyone's ability to have a reasoned conversation with you through your constant spouting of inaccuracies.
EDIT: Watch those insults! Hixee
What you're arguing isn't opinion, it's actually fact - ie., Europa is only themed to present day (wrong), it does not have trees (wrong), it is all grounded in reality (wrong). Even in balrog's latest post he states he's surrounded by stuff he's used to - like space travel, and pirates, and Gods, and legends, and myths. Just all part of your day to day life, sure.
There's no point trying to discuss it further with you two because you're entirely and fundamentally wrong and are just stubbornly standing by it.
But yeah, cool, make it all about how I'm oh so mean to you rather than the fact you've just exhausted anyone's ability to have a reasoned conversation with you through your constant spouting of inaccuracies.
EDIT: Watch those insults! Hixee
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SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
I will never, ever understand why people only work in absolutes.
For starters, don't lump myself and balrog together, we've been making different points and I don't necessarily agree with his nor does he necessarily agree with mine. I never said the park lacked foliage, that doesn't represent my point of view at all.
All you care about is that we both disagree with you, therefore we must think exactly the same and must be wrong.
Secondly, I've explained and balrog has explained several times now what we mean, and instead of explaining why that is wrong, you're ignoring it to make a different point. What I said was that the majority of Europa's architectural facades are mundane (or, were in 2008, at least). The fact that they do have fantasy stuff as well doesn't change that fact/opinion, at all. There's a difference between attraction narratives and facade theming of environments. I also never said that Europa is only themed to present day, what I did was make a comment about theming that transports you to another time and you grabbed and clung to it and twisted it to fit your narrative.
I don't want anything from you, I just don't want you to be unnecessarily aggressive.
Your opinion isn't wrong, but your tactics for arguing are. You cling to and twist comments taken out of context to back your opponent into a corner then call them stupid, rather than actually offering any counter or reasoning or opinion or anything. You're the one exhausting discussions, because you just cannot stop yourself throwing in a nasty jab and then wondering why people fluster to defend themselves.
If there's no point discussing it then take my original advice and don't, you don't need to keep reading or replying if you don't want to or feel it's worthless.
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For starters, don't lump myself and balrog together, we've been making different points and I don't necessarily agree with his nor does he necessarily agree with mine. I never said the park lacked foliage, that doesn't represent my point of view at all.
All you care about is that we both disagree with you, therefore we must think exactly the same and must be wrong.
Secondly, I've explained and balrog has explained several times now what we mean, and instead of explaining why that is wrong, you're ignoring it to make a different point. What I said was that the majority of Europa's architectural facades are mundane (or, were in 2008, at least). The fact that they do have fantasy stuff as well doesn't change that fact/opinion, at all. There's a difference between attraction narratives and facade theming of environments. I also never said that Europa is only themed to present day, what I did was make a comment about theming that transports you to another time and you grabbed and clung to it and twisted it to fit your narrative.
I don't want anything from you, I just don't want you to be unnecessarily aggressive.
Your opinion isn't wrong, but your tactics for arguing are. You cling to and twist comments taken out of context to back your opponent into a corner then call them stupid, rather than actually offering any counter or reasoning or opinion or anything. You're the one exhausting discussions, because you just cannot stop yourself throwing in a nasty jab and then wondering why people fluster to defend themselves.
If there's no point discussing it then take my original advice and don't, you don't need to keep reading or replying if you don't want to or feel it's worthless.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Say a man that keeps calling me ballbag. Seriously, isn't there some rules against plain insults on this forum ?
And yeah, try to read and understand what other people say, that way the discussion could actually make sense.
We all aknowledge the fact that there are foliage, historic and mythological theming within the park, but it is completely irrelevant to both our cases.
You just can't read, can you ?
Yes, there are. Apologies I've not really cuaght up with this topic. @Ben, you should know better - c'mon. I also disagree with balrog, but there's no need for that. I have edited your posts.
In general - let's keep this discussion moving, it's a good thought provoking conversation, but we don't want it descending into squabbling now, do we?
HeartlineCoaster
Theme Park Superhero
Phantasialand = Overrated.
Discuss.
zazobo
Hyper Poster
SaiyanHajime
CF Legend
Well, what makes you think it's overrated?
I think the general consensus and how often it is praised matches how good it is.
But I think zazobo's shocked smiley might suggest that you're in fact right! Haha.
When you can't even imply an ounce of not even negativity, but just not the gold standard appraisal and be met with shock from the community, I guess you're dealing with an overrated thing.
zazobo
Hyper Poster
Well, what makes you think it's overrated?
I think the general consensus and how often it is praised matches how good it is.
But I think zazobo's shocked smiley might suggest that you're in fact right! Haha.
When you can't even imply an ounce of not even negativity, but just not the gold standard appraisal and be met with shock from the community, I guess you're dealing with an overrated thing.
Nahhh, the place thoroughly deserves its mega high rating (in my opinion). The place is the ****ing nuts.