What's new

Nemesis - really only 3gs?

caffeine_demon

Strata Poster
Hi,

Browsing through RCDB I see that Nemesis is listed at 3g, wheras Nemesis Inferno is down at 4.5!

Is it really true that The original is less forceful than inferno? Having ridden them both (lots), I can honestly say that Nemesis has a raw intensity throughout the whole ride, which I've yet to see matched by any other ride.

Does the slight age-related roughness contribute to this feeling? have g force measurements changed over the years? or is it just one of those strange anomalies?

Daniel.
 
I seem to remember Nemesis does spike quite high, but it's not much of one. It does however have a fairly constant 3g (or whatever it is). So it feels much stronger because it prolonged. I don't know why the quoted figures on RCDB or where they come from; but essentially prolonged g's are more potent than short, high g's.
 
They probably took the reading when it was new on a certain seat etc.

I bet if they done it now in the rain at the end of a day it would be higher.
 
This has been answered a few times before, I think it's just forceful in terms of 'sustained forces', which tends to make it feel more intense than say a quick 4.5 G spike. But then again, I don't believe it myself that it pulls just 3 G's, back-left is one of the most intense experiences I've ever endured.
 
Probably just a general force they slapped onto it. I've heard rumors it spikes into 5g+.

Ben said:
caffeine_demon said:
have g force measurements changed over the years?

Yeah, this. The strength of gravity has changed over the last twenty years.

occasion14.gif
 
Just as people are saying, it's because the G Force is being held for longer, so it feels more forceful.

I read that astronauts experience 3G. It's because it's held for such a long time that the astronauts needs training, etc. So 3G isn't really a weak force.
 
Yeah, it just depends how you measure it. UC or Loefet would be able to go into much more detail, but I'll try and explain briefly.

G-spikes and sustained Gs are very, very different. If my memory serves me correctly, Loefet's G-force readings from Nemesis indicated that the helix pulled around 3G sustained, but had spikes up to 4.5-5G. It wouldn't surprise me if they were using the more general data for Nemesis, but using more 'spike' based stats for Nemesis Inferno. The issue is, as has been said, how long they're held for. Sustaining 3G, even for just a second or two, will feel a lot more intense than having a 4.5G spike for say, one fifth of a second. As this video says (I don't know how accurate it is, but it proves the point), you body acts as a cushion, so you don't really feel forces that don't last for long enough:

http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/#clip652680 (listen from 5:01 when the guy explains the cushioning)

Kebab said:
But then again, I don't believe it myself that it pulls just 3 G's, back-left is one of the most intense experiences I've ever endured.
Like I said above, sustaining 3Gs is a lot. It really does feel like it should be a lot higher G-force than it really is. I don't really know how else to elaborate this (UC?).

bezzzzzer said:
I read that astronauts experience 3G. It's because it's held for such a long time that the astronauts needs training, etc. So 3G isn't really a weak force.
Fighter pilots can experience 5-6G sustained corners (and the aircraft can handle far more), it's just that they, along with astronauts, are trained for it and wear G-suits in extreme cases. We're not used to experiencing prolonged forces, so it feels more intense to us.

marc said:
They probably took the reading when it was new on a certain seat etc.
I really don't think the age would make that much difference. If anything it's going to increase the roughness (and thus the G-spikes), but it wouldn't make that much difference to the ride to increase the forces a lot.

marc said:
I bet if they done it now in the rain at the end of a day it would be higher.
Well... yeah. I mean that's the obvious (and confusing) thing. If the park measured the G-force on a wet day in the evening then they could claim that the ride "can pull 3.5G sustained", but does it actually do that most of the time? No.

Basically it's all down to how the park has got the data. Have they done their own tests? If they did was it average running conditions? Mid-season? Mid-day? Did they do it off season? After the park shut after a long day of operation? What was the weather like? Maybe they got the numbers from the manufacturer, but it's unlikely they'd be able to test for G-spikes very accurately in their software, so maybe they supply the sustained (and easy to calculate) forces. Have they counted the highest spike, or have they had some criteria to define a sustained force (sustained for 1 second etc)? There are loads and loads of factors that slightly affect the G-forces that it really isn't just as simple as quoting a number.
 
You didn't read what I wrote, did you?

It could well have spikes up to 5G, but there's no way that helix sustains 5G.
 
I took an accelerometer to Thorpe Park a few weeks back (to try and get some rather crude G-force measurements for their various coasters), and Nemesis Inferno does seem to be quite spiky:

9JPis.jpg


Has anyone got a link to Loefet's data from Nemesis? The original does feel a lot more intense, so having sustained G would probably explain it.

I'm not sure how accurate that graph is, by the way, as I managed to get 6G from SAW...
 
^You've got access to the raw data here, but I'm going to estimate that the third-to-fourth peaks on that graph is the corner after the zero-G. I'm not that familiar with NI, but I think that's the most intense part. If you were to look at the averages for that data it's around 2.5G for around 5seconds, even though it spikes to over 4G. This has proved the point entirely.

Sadly I don't remember where Loefet posted all his force data and now he's disappeared I fear we may never get it back! :?
 
Your link doesn't seem to be working for me [edit - now it is, meh], so here it is again for good measure (I just found it in the trip reports from the Live last year).
Nemesis_BR.png


To quote Loefet's interpretation:
NEMESIS (back right), this is something that I have wanted to do since my brother made our first accelerometer (2006), I would say that it pulls around 4.5-4.6 g's in the helix into the zero-g and not the 6+ g's that I have heard some people say. It's actually about as powerful as any other B&M invert, but it's the length of the force in the helix that makes people think it's more powerful than it is...
It's still a great ride though
OK, so he's reckoning it averages a little higher than I would have said, I'd have probably said 3.5-4G, spiking up to about 6G. He's done these tests on quite a few rides, so I'm inclined to believe him about the results being similar to other inverts. Again, this shows perfectly that it depends how the park (or the person collecting the data) decides to represent the numbers.
 
I remember greying out a couple of times on the back seat of inferno, when it left the loop and pulled up into the 0-G roll. It suprised me that inferno could do that.

So I guess...that must have been a bit sustained
 
^I guess you missed this on the other page then? ;)
Hixee said:
Your link doesn't seem to be working for me [edit - now it is, meh], so here it is again for good measure (I just found it in the trip reports from the Live last year).
Nemesis_BR.png
 
Top