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Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion?

ThomVD

ThomVD

Giga Poster
I was watching some vids, and I came across the ridercam of Sky Scraper, and I suddenly realised that during the heartline rolls they weren't actually upside down. All you do is basically lie on your back (which isn't really inverting, is it? Otherwise an Eurofighter lifthill is also an inversion), and then to the normal position again. So why does this still count as an inversion? Just a random thought.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

Don't. Make. Me. Get. Out. "THE DIAGRAM!"
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

It's a track inversion, meaning that the track rotates a full 360 degrees, in the case of a heartline roll.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

Just to elaborate a little...

If you define lying on your back as not inverting, then pretzel loops on flyers aren't inversions either. At the bottom of the loop, riders are lying on their backs as well, but there's no dispute that that's still an inversion.

Having the riders parallel to the track (in a flyer) instead of perpendicular to it (everything else) may make it hard to think of how an inversion looks, so instead think in terms of the track itself inverting. During a flyer's heartline roll, the track flips around 360 degrees, creating an inversion.

If you remember some of the discussion involving X2 and the other 4Ds, it came to the point where inversions were defined by the track itself inverting, not the riders. Even if it seems odd to think of the riders as inverting on a flyer, there's no doubt that the track flips over and inverts. Therefore, the rolls are still inversions.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

So when you're looking at inversions, you only look at the track, and not whether you actually go upside down or not? Makes sense.

Though, in a pretzel loop, you are still upside down at one point. Not at the bottom of the loop, but when going down. You basically go head first.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

It is simply easiest to follow the motion of the physical track.

For instance, do riders really invert on a dive drop on the B&M wing coasters? Not really. But, for schematic sake, we still consider it an inversion as the track does rotate within furie's diagram.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

ThomVD said:
Though, in a pretzel loop, you are still upside down at one point. Not at the bottom of the loop, but when going down. You basically go head first.
Click to expand...
I guess I didn't think that example through completely :oops:

But yeah, inversions are really more about the path of the track itself, not the riders.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

Right, that answers my question then. Thanks guys!
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

Hmm, that was a rather odd point of view to only consider the track rotation! Never heard that one before. I would obviously count the rider position, since that's what matters. I can't really think of any other examples where track and rider position differs, but it's surely what we as riders experince as an inversion that count as an inversion?

If we go by the track inverting principle; should a Marer Söhne non-inverting loop be considered as an inversion?
c93q0u6k001dd0g10008nk.jpg

The track is clearly spinning 360 degrees around it's own axis.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

^ Again - are the riders truly upside down during a dive drop on a B&M Wingrider?

gcl0m3upahe002nvtg0g00.jpg


At a quick glance, the rider experience appears the same between Marer Söhne and the dive drop.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

I assume the diving drop would be where furie's diagram comes into play.

Obviously with the introduction of newer elements like the dive drop and non-inverting loop, there is some newer grey area. The track vs rider argument comes from Eejanaika. The Guinness Book of World Records gave the most inversions record to Eejanaika, but many of the inversions counted by Guinness were riders flipping head over heels due to the 4D spin. Some people argued against this, saying that only track inversions should count. For example, RCDB lists Eejanaika with only 3 inversions.

With the Non-Inverting loop, while the track does fully rotate throughout the element, there is no point where the track is actually fully upside-down (spine on top, rails on bottom). This line of thinking allows the the track inversion argument to stand (even if it is a little less universal).
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

The max vertical angle on Rockit's loop appears to be roughly 100-110 degrees which myself and most other enthusiasts would not consider an inversion.

Does anyone think that Silver Bullet's Overbanked curve is an inversion? It doesn't fully invert but it appears to get close enough. (I would integrate a photo with this post but I'm on my phone)
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

And what about Formule X? TilySlo and I were actually discussing about that today in Drievliet.

5dr01ln58q6au26as87150.jpg
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

Silver Bullet is just over bank, definitely not an inversion in my book.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

^ And not an inversion according to Knott's nor RCDB.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

FFS!
inversions.jpg


:lol:
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

What about Outlaw Run? RCDB says 3 inversions (2 of those are the heartline rolls), and it says a 153 degrees overbanked turn.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

^The Diagram really should be expanded to 150-210. There hadn't really been a bank in the 150-degree zone before; even B&M's dive loops are/were closer to 165-ish. So yes, Outlaw Run's 153 is an inversion.
 
Re: Is a heartline roll on a B&M Flyer actually an inversion

THE DIAGRAM IS LAW!!!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
 
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