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Football Hooliganism

Hooliganism/Firms... Your Opinion?

  • Any arranged 'meets' are fine as long as its away from innocent supporters

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Its football... its a passionate game and so what, sometimes the passion overflows? Thats football

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Theres no need for it in football, it paints a bad image for the football culture.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • I couldn't give a toss.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Sausages (Comedy option for hilarious people)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
P

Pierre

Strata Poster
Doubt this will get many responses as I know there aren't many football lovers on here, but whatever.

The scenes at Upton Park/Green Street surrounding areas caused a big media fuss the other day, and also sparked a mass debate between football fans.

Personally, being 23, and not being brought up in the age where hooliganism and riots were rife every weekend, I found it fascinating, but for all the wrong reasons.

The reason I'm putting this in here is that theres a 140 post topic which eventually died down on fmttm (boros fan website) in regards to hooliganism, with a lot of people saying that it 'was expected' and to 'pretend' to be disgusted by it was a sin of all sins!

Personally I think whether it be organised or not theres no need for it, there was innocent women and children getting involved in the scenes at West Ham on Tuesday night, theres just no place for it in football in these times. I'm disgusted because as a football fan, I know it was West Ham/Millwall fans being the twats, but I know for a fact as non-football fans, they will just tarnish us all with the same brush as us all being hooligans.

So my question is... does hooliganism/firms have a place in football??
Some people say its OK as long as its away from the stadium and the innocent, some just think its OK wherever it happens, some (myself) think theres no need to attach it to football.

For people who have got NO idea what I'm on about this is the events from Tuesday night...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8221671.stm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUKoLSOtvQ[/youtube]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

And this is a neutral (I say neutral as its Middlesbrough, nothing to do with West Ham V Millwall, just a general football fans forum view...)

http://fansonline.net/middlesbrough/mb/ ... id=1332810
 
Really its nothing to do with the two football clubs. The westham and Millwall firms are externally organised and most the people involved in the riots didn't actual care about going to watch the match as they could fight outside the ground. Millwall and Westham are massive rivals and it was the first time the teams have met in 4 years meaning that the hooligans (the firm) were realy up for it and wanted to make the most of it as there not likely to play eachother anytime soon. Im sure if these teams ever meet in a future fixture the police will be much more prepared and surround the pitch and outside the ground with extra security.
Hooliganism does not have a place in football but it always will un-officially because some people are raised that way and revolve there life around the team and some just enjoy the fights.
 
I'm glad to say that football hooliganism is so rare nowadays, that when it does happen, it makes headline news.

However, my personal opinion is that almost all of the hooliganism over the last few years (atleast) has been linked back to Millwall. Tuesday night...last season or the season before they were ripping out seats from every ground they visited...mass invasions...

Personally, I'd rather Millwall were more severely punished than they have been in the past...
 
If there is something to get really pissed off about during a game I can understand fans losing it with the opposing fans. When I was at the West Brom v Chelsea game last season I was started on by a fellow West Brom fan after we went 3-0 behind. Which shows how upbeat some people can get about it.

Films like Green Street have caused this though I think. It's the only West Ham v Millwall game I can think of since the film was released and for those of you who don't know it's basically the two teams firms fighting/killing each other from start to finish. (It's a good film but doesn't do any favours).

In my opinion there's no place for it in the game and if people do get involved with it then why bring innocent people in it, because I doubt people get that reckless that they couldn't give a **** if they killed a little kid or a woman. To be honest it's just horrible to see when its like that so yes; I am completely against it (although the sausage is very tempting) :lol:
 
ciallkennett please stop talking ****.

Pierre I was at the game last Tuesday night, I am a Millwall fan and I know the club has a bad reputation but trouble is extremely rare at home/away games but when anything does happen the media are all too quick to report about it being the worst thing they have ever seen blah blah.

However last Tuesday night was different, I have been to about 40 away games before but never West Ham away, I knew there was potential for trouble but I have never seen anything like it. I know your probably think of course im going to say this as a Millwall fan but it WAS West Ham, of course we were no angels but there was only 2,000 of us and about 22,000 of them, I'd like to say most of our fans actions were out of retaliation more than anything.

In answer to your question Pierre after what I saw last Tuesday, no hooliganism does not have a place anywhere. People were pelted with bottles, coins, poles just trying to get into the ground to watch a game of football. A man in front of me was bottled with another narrowly missing me, I basically had to crawl to the door to try and avoid being hit by misslies then the police thought it was a great idea to not allow anyone else in the ground so we were left with west ham fans pelting whatever they could find at us for a little longer, not fun.

To put it into perspective how many people were actually injured the toilet looked like an abattoir, blood everwhere from people trying to clean themselves up.

For the record though nothing really happened inside the stadium it was all pretty well policed it all happened just outside. The only thing that happened were the west ham fans running on the pitch and shouting abuse and threatening our players. Lovely bunch.
 
My dad and brother were there (West Ham supporters) and my brother said it was great, the atmosphere was incredible and it was like being in a time machine.

I say, as long as members of the public don't get dragged into it, let them get on with it. If men want to behave like absolutely animals and kick the **** out of each other, let them.
 
No need for it, football may be more important than life or death but that does not mean this kind of thing should happen, you just can not justify this kind of thing, it's so pointless and stupid.
 
It's the law's fault and the media.

The media built up rivalries between clubs years ago, especially the long awaited 'Derby matches'.

Now they are paying the price really, trying to pick the pieces up with all the positive advertising campaigns.

When the police come out in force I think it really rattles fans cages, probably tempting them more to cause havoc.
All pretty stupid things, but I think football has been built up massively, and with the good comes the bad, typically.
 
No. It's pathetic. Football's already a stupid overrated sport, definitely no need for it. Pisses me off how people take football so seriously, that Sky 'football, we know how you feel about it' advert which shows grown men crying over a ****ing game really pisses me off.
 
Blaze said:
football may be more important than life or death .
Click to expand...

Football is not more important than life or death - it's a game. It's no different to playing marbles or tag off the ground! Just a game. I have never understood why people get so emotional about it. Enjoy the game, support you team - but at the end of the day, surely it's the game you enjoy? It's the watching of the game that gives you the enjoyment?

People who use it as an excuse to commit violence, are doing exactly that, using a game as an excuse. They want to be violent, and this is just one way they can be allowed to be.

I just hear snippets off the media, so I don't know much about it all, but to me - it just solidifies the idea that football fans are brainless morons (no offence intended - it's just the stereotype that comes forward).

The quote above really solidifies this though.
 
^Furie pretty much hit the nail on the head there.

I've been to loads of football matches and I've never seen violence. I don't think I'd want a good (or bad) football match ending in violence and stuff getting thrown at people. I don't understand why some people have to ruin things for others.
 
Have to agree with what furie ^^ and V Ormerod said.
Ormerod said:
It's the law's fault and the media.

The media built up rivalries between clubs years ago, especially the long awaited 'Derby matches'.

Now they are paying the price really, trying to pick the pieces up with all the positive advertising campaigns.

When the police come out in force I think it really rattles fans cages, probably tempting them more to cause havoc.
All pretty stupid things, but I think football has been built up massively, and with the good comes the bad, typically.
Click to expand...
.

No, I don't think hooliganism needs to have any part of football. I know I've gone through lots of emosions while playing, watching football, but the step to resort to violence is for the very weak.
To elaborate on what furie said, the average stereotypical 'hooligan' for me seems to be uncontent with his life to a degree, where he maybe tries (unconsciously?) to live his life through a team or through games. (obious?)

I don't know remember where I heard this, but I think there was like a study, somewhere that suggested that a game of football in general (of course it depends on the game etc.) CAN portray such an array of happenings, feelings (almost like the whole life in a small scale) as it unfolds that somehow *can* trigger emotions, in a bit more powerful way than in other sports for the supporter. I know it sounds sort of made-up very messy.. If that's true then that together with what had been mentioned above could maybe explain hooliganism a bit better.?
 
Do what the Championship League do and ban alcohol in the ground, this can help limit more drinking in the ground. Then maintain a zero tolerance to violence in the game and give people life bans for breaking rules i.e. violence, pitch invasions etc.
 
furie said:
Blaze said:
football may be more important than life or death .
Click to expand...

Football is not more important than life or death - it's a game. It's no different to playing marbles or tag off the ground! Just a game. I have never understood why people get so emotional about it. Enjoy the game, support you team - but at the end of the day, surely it's the game you enjoy? It's the watching of the game that gives you the enjoyment?

People who use it as an excuse to commit violence, are doing exactly that, using a game as an excuse. They want to be violent, and this is just one way they can be allowed to be.

I just hear snippets off the media, so I don't know much about it all, but to me - it just solidifies the idea that football fans are brainless morons (no offence intended - it's just the stereotype that comes forward).

The quote above really solidifies this though.
Click to expand...

It's a quoute by Bill Shankly, which is why I used it. I would never die for football, it's a metaphore for how important football is to people who follow it. Anyone who justifies football hooliganism is pathetic. I have seen Polish hooligans and they try to kill each other simply because they support different teams week in week out. If you think Millwall are bad, go to Poland. What is the point? We all like football, so what is the problem with people supporting other teams? Certainly not big enough for mass fighting. Support your team, OK, emotions run high and sometimes there will be incidents, that can not be stopped, but what I don't understand is organised and planned fighting, people who support football so they can fight every week. They need to grow up. Support properly or not at all.
 
I think it's bad when innocent people get involved and it's bad how some people are scared to see their team play for worry of being beaten up.... however, I kind of accept it as part of the game. Football is a very macho manly thing and it's something I've come to expect tbh.... it doesn't really bother me. I guess on one hand, I couldn't give a toss, but it's not right when innocent people get involved. With regards to those fighting, it's their choice, and so long as innocent people getting involved is kept to a minimum (which I know is sometinmes hard) I think it's fine- hey, everyone has a different lifestyle choice.
 
It is revolting and shows how little we have progressed over time. We are still essentially animals and behaviour such as this only serves to degrade us and turn society into a zoo.

If I can watch a game of football with out feeling the need to go out and hospitalise someone afterwards so can everyone else. I only enjoy football if it is a world cup with England playing otyhewise I can't see the point. I'm not from Manchester or Liverpool etc so why would I feel the need to support their teams.
 
Football fan violence: DO NOT WANT!

It's not big, it's not clever and I'd like to blame the Germans; but can't as it is our fault!

The media, encourages it. They love a good story to put in their papers, and whether or not they are doing it on purpose, they most certainly stoke up the flames to make a bigger mess than there was in the first place.

Millwall for example are perceived nationwide as being the worst of the worst in the UK. Why has this happened? Are all 200,000 people that live in Tower Hamlets persons that wouldn't be out of place as a movie villain? Of course not! But I bet your view on them (perhaps without ever actually being there) is universally dim. This is something which has been created by the British Media.

Therefore, perhaps the fans of the club feel the need to act in this way to be an accepted supporter of their team? This has again been encouraged by what has been said on tele, in the papers and on the radio.

These generated stereotypes are actually the problem. And until someone stops the media frenzy from creating these self fulfilling prophecies; then they shall continue to do so.

However, there are some people that are just out there to have a fight with the other set of fans. But the vast majority of people caught up in this are not naturally like that but feel obliged to go along with it as they are "supposed" to. It's very pathetic really.
 
Are all 200,000 people that live in Tower Hamlets persons that wouldn't be out of place as a movie villain? Of course not!
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No, Tower Hamlets IS actually that bad. Of course, Milwall is in Lewisham, not Tower Hamlets, which is just as bad, but, hey :p
 
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