Doctor Who.

[nealbie]

I'd certainly agree with all that. His on-screen death still moves me to tears (part because the episodes are amazing and also because dreadful Colin appeared!)

 

[MouseAT]

I've just been re-watching a load of the modern Doctor Who episodes. I've been watching the Eccleston series, the first series with David Tennant and then the last two series with Matt Smith.

Eccleston's performance is still great, but I find the series a bit hard to watch now, at least in places. Maybe it's because the character of The Doctor has changed so much over the last few years, going back to the character as it was "in the beginning" threw me a bit.

David Tennant's performance was pretty good, but I did start to tire of his character after the first series. I think some of it was Russel T Davies' convoluted writing, but some of it was just in the way in which the character was portrayed - as a friend of mine pointed out recently, the whole "lonely god" theme led to some great dramatic moments, but also got a bit bland after a while.

Matt Smith (and companions) however have massively grown on me, and are definitely my favourites from "New Who". Sure, the writing can be a bit all over the place, and there are plenty of episodes where the writing is "meh", but even those episodes have great moments that are carried amazingly well by the actors involved. With the exception of "Victory of the Daleks", I can't think of another really bad episode in the last couple of series, although "Night Terrors" was pretty bland.

I love the mad, random nature of Smith's doctor - he'll get himself in over his head and then have to figure out some genius way out of the problem he's created. He messes up, can be manipulative and is so all over the place that he's hard to predict. The loneliness, the horrors of what he's experienced - it's all still there, just a lot less in your face than it was with Tennant, and the series is better for it.

I think the faster pacing suits Matt's doctor, but as a result the episodes really need to flow well to work effectively. When the episodes are well structured, the faster pacing really works. Where the episodes jump around all over the place ("Victory of the Daleks", "The Wedding of River Song") the episodes definitely feel a bit disjointed. I can understand why some people, particularly the younger viewers have difficulty keeping up with what's going on.

There are several things I'm really liking about the writing in the Moffat era as well. Plot arcs are persisting over more than one season. Some of the most dramatic moments actually have very little dialog, and are left to the actors to convey the atmosphere and emotion. Look at the scenes with The Doctor and Amy at the end of "The God Complex" or "The Doctor, The Widow and The Wardrobe". So much is said through actions. So little is said through words.

But the biggest thing? The way in which episodes drop hints as to what's happening or going to happen. "The Time of Angels". "A Good Man Goes to War". If you're not really paying attention or you're a child, everything is explained in the end. If you're really paying attention, you'll realise what's going to happen well ahead of time, or spot things across episodes. If you're somewhere in the middle like me, you'll notice things a few seconds before the big reveal, have an "OH!...." moment, and feel incredibly smug. Fantastic stuff.

They do need to get away from the whole "The Doctor messed up and now the universe is falling apart" season finale. They've done it twice now, and they do need to do something a bit different for the next season.

 

[nealbie]

So... This Saturday is the 50th Anniversary! Anyone off to go and see it in the cinema?

Also, this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3jrS-uhuo[/youtube]

<3

So good to finally see McGann back in costume, as well as sorting out the Doctor's chronology! So Hurt, is the 8th Doctor (War Form), it's all a bit Pokemon :lol:

I wonder (as this was certainly unexpected) if we'll see hurt regenerate into Ecclestone come the end of the special? He said he didn't want to return to the role because he doesn't do that, but if all we see is Hurt regenerating into him then that doesn't require any acting.

Tres excited!!

 

[marc]

Someone was saying on line the Hurt is the first Doctor getting a tad confusing but am sure it will be explained.

Looking forward to the Kyle character as done are saying she is the Tardis. Cannot remember what her name was in the show but they say it means Tardis etc.

 

[furie]

I wanted to see it at the cinema, but I never got around to booking tickets, and it's a 45 minute drive to our nearest Vue.

I'm really excited, while at the same time being ready for complete and utter disappointment too.

He doesn't seem to be first Doctor (or The Doctor before the Doctor picked a name/profession), but definitely the 8th, which mixes up the chronology.

Stoked about getting some timewar answers though and loved seeing McGann back in the role too. That entire 7 minute prequel was just geek porn to me

I just think it's going to all be a bit silly and light hearted and lose any real strengths and depth it potentially has. I don't know though and I love John Hurt

 

[rollermonkey]

^Well, it certainly wasn't all silliness and light-hearted, eh?

I can't believe there's been no post-50th discussion. I mean they did just COMPLETELY rewrite one of the biggest elements from the Doctor's personal timeline...

 

[ECG]

He doesn't seem to be first Doctor (or The Doctor before the Doctor picked a name/profession), but definitely the 8th, which mixes up the chronology.

I don't know anything about this stuff, but Christine watches Dr. Who religiously and says that there's no way that he's the 8th. Can you please explain so that I can pass it on to her?

 

[Ian]

Despite not caring for Doctor Who, I watched the 50th anniversary special. Only because it was in 3D and I felt the need to use it! I thought the story was as equally as boring as other episodes (there was no dancing or Darcy Bussell's legs involved) but it looked amazing! Seriously, I've never, ever seen something look so sharp and crystal clear as that. The 3D was perfect and not overdone. **** the content, visually it was superb.

 

[nealbie]

He doesn't seem to be first Doctor (or The Doctor before the Doctor picked a name/profession), but definitely the 8th, which mixes up the chronology.

I don't know anything about this stuff, but Christine watches Dr. Who religiously and says that there's no way that he's the 8th. Can you please explain so that I can pass it on to her?

The 8th Doctor regenerates into John Hurt after his actual death (as seen in the mini episode). Steven Moffett (head writer of the show) says that Hurt's Doctor is officially 'The War Doctor' and that he (and his subsequent incarnations) doesn't consider himself part of the chronology. However, he still used up the regenerative energy and Tennant used two (greedy bugger), so Matt Smith's death IS the Doctor's death. Something wonderful will happen for the Christmas special in order that we get Capaldi and the show can continue.

That is the canon.

Some like to see Hurt's Doctor as a forced reshaping of the Doctor's personality in order to better suit him to The Time War (so 8.5/8 version 2), as McGann's regeneration is clearly somewhat of a pacifist and against the whole idea as he doesn't get involved until he changes into Hurt.

Spoiler

At the conclusion of The Time War, with no purpose remaining and no severe injury to his person, Hurt's Doctor regenerates into Ecclestone.

Hope that helped Jerry!

 

[furie]

I can't believe there's been no post-50th discussion. I mean they did just COMPLETELY rewrite one of the biggest elements from the Doctor's personal timeline...

I've been busy trying to work out how I feel about it

Ian has helped

Despite not caring for Doctor Who, I watched the 50th anniversary special. Only because it was in 3D and I felt the need to use it! I thought the story was as equally as boring as other episodes (there was no dancing or Darcy Bussell's legs involved) but it looked amazing! Seriously, I've never, ever seen something look so sharp and crystal clear as that. The 3D was perfect and not overdone. **** the content, visually it was superb.

The "reboot" series' have been much more about character than individual stories. While they often have an "over egged" series story arc, the writing is all about the players. The older series were all about the actual sci-fi story lines. Essentially, it's now much less nerdy, but weaker in terms of story telling. There are good stories here and there, but Day of the Doctor was definitely one of those episodes where the plot is left somewhere in a parking lot while the characters go on a GTA style joyride through the Doctor Who universe.

Essentially, if you're a fan of the show for the characters it has produced, and to keep up with the expanding and massive "Whoniverse" chronology - then it was an absolute stunner.

I'm a huge John Hurt fan, so him being the Doctor was as much of a delight as I thought it would be

The 8th Doctor regenerates into John Hurt after his actual death (as seen in the mini episode). Steven Moffett (head writer of the show) says that Hurt's Doctor is officially 'The War Doctor' and that he (and his subsequent incarnations) doesn't consider himself part of the chronology. However, he still used up the regenerative energy and Tennant used two (greedy bugger), so Matt Smith's death IS the Doctor's death. Something wonderful will happen for the Christmas special in order that we get Capaldi and the show can continue.

That is the canon.

Some like to see Hurt's Doctor as a forced reshaping of the Doctor's personality in order to better suit him to The Time War (so 8.5/8 version 2), as McGann's regeneration is clearly somewhat of a pacifist and against the whole idea as he doesn't get involved until he changes into Hurt.

Spoiler

At the conclusion of The Time War, with no purpose remaining and no severe injury to his person, Hurt&#39;s Doctor regenerates into Ecclestone.

Hope that helped Jerry!

Yes, essentially The John Hurt Doctor rescinded the name "Doctor", so was essentially something else. We know that Time Lords pick their name based on their personality - or what they wish to achieve, depending on what they see when they look into the time vortex for the first time. It kind of sets them up for their lives.

The regeneration between McGann's Doctor and "The War Doctor" was a "choice", so like when the time lord's future character is determined by the time vortex - the potion McGann drank made him into a new personality completely - The "Warrior" rather than the "Doctor" if you like. So his future selves never consider him a "Doctor".

You need to watch the short "The War Doctor" to see how it fits

The number of regenerations isn't set in stone at all. The Master has had more than his 13, and there are other time lords that have been referenced as having more than the 13 regenerations. In one of the Sarah Jane adventures, Matt Smith throws in a random number for how many regenerations he has left. The canon on this is "there isn't a set limit any more". Some say it's due to the fact that with Gallifrey gone, the mechanism for control of regenerations no longer exists, so the Doctor could potentially live forever, maybe as a curator of a museum

Neal:

Spoiler

The last words of Hurt's were the same as Hartnell's last words - suggesting that the body was used up in the same way the first Doctor's was. We don't know how long he had been fighting the time war, but there's a lot of time adrift that is unaccounted for in the chronology. It may have been the stress on his body after battling so long that shortened his "natural regeneration span"?

 

[nealbie]

Yeah there is that, Phil. But that seemed to be more a nod than anything else.

And yeah, the control theory is something I have agreed with.

 

[rollermonkey]

I was pleasantly impressed with the episode.

I actually streamed the Adventures In Space And Time thing just before, thinking it was another episode, though.

I think the gumption of rewriting The Doctor's role in the conclusion of the Time Wars was a stunning turn, and really could have only been attempted in an event as monumental as the 50th anniversary. At any other point, I think it would have been inappropriate.

 

[furie]

I find that the overall build of world, stories and characters is fantastic at a holistic level, but at a micro level, it's not very good :lol:

You're right though, the stuff could only be done in such a major episode

An adventure in space and time was pretty good I thought - well worth watching .

 

[marc]

I really went off dr Who simply due to Matt Smith and the stories.

I really did enjoy special episode thought it wrapped things up well.

I also like the fact the writers had the story planned years ago to fill in the gap of the war.

 

[rollermonkey]

So... When do the next episodes start airing?

 

[furie]

I think it's usually around Easter time, but it depends on BBC budgets and things.

Hopefully they'll replace Moffat with Neil Gaiman and all will be good with the world

Getting fed up with every series ending with the Tardis going down in flames - bit worried we're going to have another Peter Davidson fiasco on our hands.

 

[Nemesis Inferno]

Starts up in August this year for a constant series (i.e. no stupid American-style break of several months in the middle)...

 

[BBH]

I'm trying to get into Doctor Who (haven't watched a single episode) and am wondering where to start. Series One, I would assume, or is there a better order than chronologically?

 

[nealbie]

If you want to, watch some of the classic stuff, although you'd probably tolerate it more after watching the modern stuff. :lol:

So yeah, start from 2005 reboot series 1 (Eccleston as the 9th Doctor) and work your way from there. You could always watch the 1996 American TV movie if you wanted to, to see how not to do Doctor Who (Paul McGann is awesome as the 8th Doctor however)!

 

[BBH]

If you want to, watch some of the classic stuff, although you'd probably tolerate it more after watching the modern stuff. :lol:

So yeah, start from 2005 reboot series 1 (Eccleston as the 9th Doctor) and work your way from there. You could always watch the 1996 American TV movie if you wanted to, to see how not to do Doctor Who (Paul McGann is awesome as the 8th Doctor however)!

Thanks, the libraries in my area are full of Doctor Who DVD's which I can begin borrowing soon.