Like Patrick said, I think having it focused on the gimmick (the drop) is the main thing which is why I love Oblivion, I actually think its my favourite coaster. Its the only one that still gives me a little bit of a nervous feeling, and the focus on the drop is probably the main reason for that!
Dive machines, old or new?
- Thread starter Brookes
- Start date
A
Anonymous
Guest
I have only been on oblivion, but sheikra looks amazing
MouseAT
Hyper Poster
Having ridden Griffon in August, I can safely say that it's a better overall ride that Oblivion. That said, Oblivion's drop in to the tunnel completely owns Griffon's exposed drop.
Oblivion's constant speed chain-driven transport at the top helps build tension much better than relying on gravity as the new dive machines do. Oblivion just slowly inches round the corner and on to the holding brake. The newer DMs gain speed going around the corner under gravity and then have to brake before they go over the top. It's a small thing, but it's noticeable when you've ridden both.
Oblivion's constant speed chain-driven transport at the top helps build tension much better than relying on gravity as the new dive machines do. Oblivion just slowly inches round the corner and on to the holding brake. The newer DMs gain speed going around the corner under gravity and then have to brake before they go over the top. It's a small thing, but it's noticeable when you've ridden both.
Screaming Coasters
Strata Poster
I've only been on Oblivion but looking at the newer ones, they look like a pile o' tosh. They struggle to get around the track and seem very drawn out and slow (even if they are faster than Oblivion)
Give me the old any day.
Give me the old any day.
LiveForTheLaunch
CF Legend
Most ridiculous thing ever.
No, I haven't been on a dive machine, but that is like saying I'd prefer a Millennium Force with just the drop and a turn into the station, than a Millennium Force with a few turns and hills.
Yah, they hype the drop up more, but do you really think that the hype makes it a better coaster than SheiKra or Griffon, both of which have other things to them?
That's like saying you'd rather ride a coaster with less elements than with the same element PLUS more.
New in case you hadn't guessed.
Smithy
Strata Poster
LiveForTheLaunch said:
That's rich.
You are aware that there is more to it than 'just hype' around the drop. It's called a theme. And before you try and throw it back that a theme isn't important, I'd just advise you to take a look at Disney before saying that
That's not to say that the themeing makes it better automatically btw, just pointing out how ridiculous it was you calling that ridiculous
Oh, and different car sizes may have an effect also...
LiveForTheLaunch
CF Legend
I've been to Disney, and I know how important theming is, so although SheiKra and Griffon don't have amazing theming, the parks and atmosphere they are in are certainly nice and have theming, so yeah.
I know that, with the hole and all, but still, I don't understand how a ride with a drop into a hole and an overbank could be better than a bigger coaster with the same type of drop, only not into a hole, plus inversions and other drops.
LiveForTheLaunch said:
It could be because you're only anticipating the drop, which is, at the end of the day, what a Dive Machine is all about. Mike said that the drop on Oblivion is more forceful, which coupled with the theming of Oblivion, the misty tunnel, and even the videos in the queue that tell you that you're going to die, could mean a better ride. After all, I could just go ride Nemesis if I wanted to go upside down, eh?
I prefer the look of the longer rides though, but I can see where people are coming from when they say Oblivion is better.
LiveForTheLaunch
CF Legend
Well still, I mean, people have said it'd be great if Top Thrill Dragster and Kingda Ka had more of a layout than just launch, up, down (and in Ka's case, a hill), but the main purpose of the coasters is the launch, so clearly a Top Thrill Dragster with just a launch and a top hat is so much better than a Top Thrill Dragster with a few more elements, surely?
Smithy
Strata Poster
LiveForTheLaunch said:
So you're fully aware of just what an impact decent themeing can have, right? Which further shows how silly you were to call him riduclous.
Bigger isn't always better. To generalise, would you understand how a Mitsubishi Evo with a 2 litre engine is better than a Porsche with a 4 litre engine? By sheer size, and using your logic, you'd go with the Porsche. Yet there are many other variables that need to be taken into account, thus why that logic is flawed. You can't just assume that bigger is better, or longer is better.
Screaming Coasters
Strata Poster
Well Taylor, Oblivion is still 180ft. 80ft above ground and 100ft underground so it's still a big drop. The pullout is so intense as well, the amount of g's it produces is off the scale and looking at how drawn-out the newer Dive Machines such as Sheikra are, and the many complaints I hear about it being forceless I'd rather have Oblivion's short but intense ride.
Thats my opinion. I don't know if it'd change when I ride the newer ones but I'm more of a compact coaster fan anyway because I enjoy brute force and not piddley coasting.
Thats my opinion. I don't know if it'd change when I ride the newer ones but I'm more of a compact coaster fan anyway because I enjoy brute force and not piddley coasting.
Snoo
The Legend
I hardly found Sheikra to be forceless. In fact, the G's in the turnaround after the first immelmen were quite intense.. more intense then any part of Griffon tbh.
And this wasn't a one time ride thing.. I rode it 21 times in 2 days.. and it still had the same forces on each time.
And this wasn't a one time ride thing.. I rode it 21 times in 2 days.. and it still had the same forces on each time.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone call the new DMs forceless, and having *actually* done them instead of just looked at them, I can confirm the pull-outs on them are in fact, just as forceful as Oblivion's. Not as "crazy" as it's not in the dark, and that does effect it. But, in pure force, it's about on a par.
And then the Immelmans on them are crazy intense. You seem to be underestimating the force that is piled on with the non-stop pull-out into pull-up combination the drop/immelman provides. Then the helix after on Sheikra is sexy, as well as the flip out of them being beautiful. The DM's immelmans are up there as the best inversions, and the most forceful. To illustrate this, I've not been through one yet without starting to black out. These are NOT piddly like the rest of B&M's recent looping efforts.
Then of course, they actually continue... With Griffon even having pops of airtime into the brakes. Yummy. Much more forceful then sitting on Oblivion's brake run, stacking.
Oh, and the theming argument on Oblivion would have flown... a decade ago when it actually looked good. Now? Uh, not so much.
And then the Immelmans on them are crazy intense. You seem to be underestimating the force that is piled on with the non-stop pull-out into pull-up combination the drop/immelman provides. Then the helix after on Sheikra is sexy, as well as the flip out of them being beautiful. The DM's immelmans are up there as the best inversions, and the most forceful. To illustrate this, I've not been through one yet without starting to black out. These are NOT piddly like the rest of B&M's recent looping efforts.
Then of course, they actually continue... With Griffon even having pops of airtime into the brakes. Yummy. Much more forceful then sitting on Oblivion's brake run, stacking.
Oh, and the theming argument on Oblivion would have flown... a decade ago when it actually looked good. Now? Uh, not so much.
madhjsp
Giga Poster
Ben said:
QFT. The drop/immelman combo offered by Griffon and Sheikra is something that has to be experienced before you can accurately compare them to Oblivion. It's not a quick inversion, actually it's rather drawn out, but the forces are uniform throughout, and the pullout dive into the MCBR is surprisingly fast.
I think floorlessness is also key in this case since the trains on the new DMs are wider. The exposed feeling of sitting on the end and having minimal structure around you greatly enhances the soaring ride experience.
With the old DMs, you get a great drop, some intense positive G's... and that's it.
With the new DMs, you get a very good drop, more sustained positive G's, two great inversions, a second almost vertical drop, and in Griffon's case, a couple pops of nice airtime before and after the water splash.
It's easy to understand where people are coming from with the theme of Oblivion and the anticipation of the drop, and I'm sure that makes for a nice ride, but at the end of the day, the overall layout for the new DMs is clearly superior.
I am kind of half and half for this one.
The only thig that's unique about the Dive machines is the drop. So I think the drop should be the focus of the ride. On Sheikra and Griffon, the ride would still be a good ride without the 90 degree drop whereas Oblivion and G4 would be rubbish without the 90 degree drop.
So I think the New Dive Machines are too similar to normal sitdowns so I think that if you want a proper Dive Machine experience then you should try one of the old ones.
But that doesn't mean I don't like the layout of the new ones.
I'm not voting because I'm split on this one.
The only thig that's unique about the Dive machines is the drop. So I think the drop should be the focus of the ride. On Sheikra and Griffon, the ride would still be a good ride without the 90 degree drop whereas Oblivion and G4 would be rubbish without the 90 degree drop.
So I think the New Dive Machines are too similar to normal sitdowns so I think that if you want a proper Dive Machine experience then you should try one of the old ones.
But that doesn't mean I don't like the layout of the new ones.
I'm not voting because I'm split on this one.